MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Flying Dutch Fan]

There's been some bitterness on this board, let's just say, Q ...

I'll say.

I mean...Rowan??

When in doubt, just read Stinger's tag line.  Sure, it's a funny quote from an Austin Powers movie, but he is dead serious.  Might have something to do with how long it's been since Kazoo beat Hope

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I've had a few days to take things in, think about Friday and Saturday, analyze some things in my head, and it occurred to me how odd Friday felt.  It felt to me Hope was really scrambling to find minutes, to find lineups.  I knew they were in foul troubles, I knew it was big, I knew it kept the front line divided for a large portion of the game.  But I didn't know just how much untill I got home and could look at some boxscores.

Earlier in the season Hope played Roanoke in Florida and probably faced as much foul trouble as they would all season, if I remember correctly Hope's frontline that day only played a little over 14 minutes together.  Thats a pretty small number by my estimation, somehow Hope battled through it and won a tough ball game on the road.

For Friday's game vs Washington I came up with this......Hope's frontline of Reimink, Vanderheide and Klein played a total of 9:28 together.  I have nothing other than the Roanoke game to compare that to since I rarely find a reason to even check that number out.  But less than 1/4 of a game seems amazing, I don't believe too many teams are much like themselves playing that few minutes together.

It wasn't just a single guy missing either, for 9:59 of the game, Hope played without 2 of those 3 guys.  Its really kind of amazing Hope was even in this game when you think about it.

Hope's 5 best players were its starting 5 of VanSolkema, Wolfe, Reimink, Vanderheide and Klein.  The starting 5 for Hope played together for only 8:44.  Its really no wonder it felt like Hope was playing with a hand tied behind its back, because infact they virtually were.

Ryan Klein's defense down the stretch of the season was amazing to watch.  You could argue he won the MIAA tournament with his steller play, taking away Desmond Young and Derek Griffin in the second halves of those games.  In the NCAA's he picked-up Nate Stahl in the second half and took away a big part of Capital's offense.  Against OWU he was the man defender on Dustin Rudegair, helping hold him to 3 points.  Against Wheaton he again was part of the team effort to slow down Kent Raymond, holding the all-american to a handfull of points and only a couple of FG attempts in the second half.

Vs Washington however Klein faced his toughest test in Troy Ruths.  Unfortunately the whistles came often enough to limit Ryan to only 21 minutes of action.  In those 21 minutes he held his own, holding the all-american to 13 points, some I'm not certain he was responsible for, as WashU forced quite a few switches. 

By the time Ruths picked up foul #1, Hope was already in foul trouble with 2 on Vanderheide and Klein, by foul #2, Klein and Vanderheide each had 3.  Foul #3 occured with just over 12 minutes left, not much concern at that point, most of the damage was done.

I don't think its really any surprise that when Klein fouled out, Troy Ruths scored the next 8 points of the game for WashU and Hope's chances were pretty much paralyzed at that point.

I do give WashU credit, they played the foul game, and attacked Hope during some key moments, most evident going after Vanderheide and a third foul, and latter going after Klein after his 4th and Reimink when it so obvious he was dead tired.

My greatest fear coming into this game was Hope getting in foul trouble because that really was where a weakness in this team was, for the most part they stayed out of it this year.  I do feel pretty strongly Hope's foul trouble played a major roll in the outcome, they had a hard time coping with WashU's agression and it showed.  I guess the question never to be answered is how much of that came from Hope having to back off.

It was just a little disappointing to have to play that kind of game in such a big moment.  Overall Hope battled through it all as best they could.  Hope had only 7 disqualifications this year from fouling out.......3 occurred vs Washington.

It didn't help much this afternoon when I listened to Troy Ruths on hoopsville talking about the weekend........and this quote, said in a joking sort of way about all his trips to the free-throw line.  "Yeah, I really liked those officials".

Just another tiny dagger in an already broken heart.

Who's bitter? 

It must get old not having your own team to talk about (heck it's been so long since they played it's hard to remember) and just having to rag on the Hope folks.   

[AndersDY]

There's been some bitterness on this board, let's just say, Q ...

I'll say.

I mean...Rowan??

Rowan is about as good a team to mention to bring up bitterness as B-W would be. Heck, 12 years later and I'm bitter about that weekend. Titan, you are an IWU guy, right? Are you in agreement that we were robbed of what could have been an amazing true-D3-title game between Hope and IWU that year? When the time machine gets invented, that will be on my list of things to fix...

[realist]

There's been some bitterness on this board, let's just say, Q ...

Perhaps if you had used the word "disappointment" instead of the b word it wouldn't have fanned the flames quite so much.

[Pat Coleman]

That wouldn't have been an accurate description at all, however.

And I think Q's point was that comparing Hope to Rowan '96 is ludicrous.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

That wouldn't have been an accurate description at all, however.

And I think Q's point was that comparing Hope to Rowan '96 is ludicrous.

Of course it's ridiculous, but then that is exactly why Stinger did it, which is why Pat's comment about bitterness hit the nail on the head.

[sac]

My goodness the little karma fairies are out in full force already.  You girls have fun.


......and yes bitter and jealous describes a number of posters to a 'T'. 

It must get old not having your own team to talk about (heck it's been so long since they played it's hard to remember) and just having to rag on the Hope folks.  

Except they never talk about their own teams not even when they're playing, just pot shots or ragging about Hope.

Glenn just couldn't seal the deal on his Rowanesque run.

How would anyone from Kzoo know anything about what it takes to seal the deal in an NCAA tournament.

[sac]

Washington to me is the best D3 team Hope's played in the last 8 years, right next to last years version of the Bears.  It was always going to be a tough task to beat them, I'm just glad Hope got a second crack at them.

sac, I'm not sure what great teams Hope has played over the course of the last 8 years, but my guess is there's gotta be some team in there that was as good or better.  Remember, this Wash U team did not win their conference...and they needed overtime to beat both Augustana and Buena Vista in the NCAA tournament.

Having seen Wash U play three times this season before the Final Four, I can tell you that you saw the '07-08 Bears at their absolutely best.  Those of us in Salem saw a very good team raise its level in amazing fashion.  The Bears played almost flawlessley for the final 60 minutes in Salem.  My guess, however, is that this Wash U team was really no better than, say, the last great Calvin team or one of those Albion teams a few years back, or even some great Hope non-conference opponent from the last eight years.

Talent wise you might be right, but I can't think of anyone who's played as well as Washington did vs Hope.  I don't know if you missed it but a couple days ago I posted that it had been 93 games since anyone scored even more than 80 points vs a Hope team, and almost 6 years since anyone scored 89 that wasn't playing Grinnell ball.

I'll take your word for it that WashU can play at a lower level, unfortunately in 2 tries, I haven't seen it.

[Stinger]

My goodness the little karma fairies are out in full force already.  You girls have fun.


......and yes bitter and jealous describes a number of posters to a 'T'. 

It must get old not having your own team to talk about (heck it's been so long since they played it's hard to remember) and just having to rag on the Hope folks.  

Except they never talk about their own teams not even when they're playing, just pot shots or ragging about Hope.

Glenn just couldn't seal the deal on his Rowanesque run.

How would anyone from Kzoo know anything about what it takes to seal the deal in an NCAA tournament.

Well I guess the first thing is that you don't let Holstege touch the ball for the last shot, no? 

[sac]

Well I guess the first thing is that you don't let Holstege touch the ball for the last shot, no? 

I would have said make the tournament more than once in 31 years, but that works to, thanks for having a sense of humor about it.

[sac]

I read on the football board that Trine will be changing their school colors to Blue and Gold or something similar, but will still keep the nickname.

Apparently this falls within their master plan.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

My goodness the little karma fairies are out in full force already.  You girls have fun.


......and yes bitter and jealous describes a number of posters to a 'T'. 

It must get old not having your own team to talk about (heck it's been so long since they played it's hard to remember) and just having to rag on the Hope folks.  

Except they never talk about their own teams not even when they're playing, just pot shots or ragging about Hope.

Glenn just couldn't seal the deal on his Rowanesque run.

How would anyone from Kzoo know anything about what it takes to seal the deal in an NCAA tournament.

If I could give you karma 3 times for those 3 comments, I would

[almcguirejr]

Hope and GVW had a a great year.  At the end of the year Hope was playing about as close to their potential as possible.  Nobody could ask for more.

Researching how much time starting five got to play together, officials took away our ability to play, Troy Ruth's comments about officiating, WashU played the "foul game," Ursinus sucked and didn't belong, the big guy from Ursinus was no good, have all been things that have been referred to here the past week. 

Not too many have said we got beat by a better team that night.

[AndersDY]

Not too many have said we got beat by a better team that night.

I think you just did.

Frankly, I was quite glad to see the championship game the next day and watch Washington shoot at least as lights-out as they had against us. As you phrase it "a better team that night" I was hoping that we hadn't just hit them on the wrong night when they were knocking down every shot as they did in the second half. At least knowing they did it to one other team showed that Hope did run into a great team playing well, not just a good team who had a crazy night of shooting for one game.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hope and GVW had a a great year.  At the end of the year Hope was playing about as close to their potential as possible.  Nobody could ask for more.

Researching how much time starting five got to play together, officials took away our ability to play, Troy Ruth's comments about officiating, WashU played the "foul game," Ursinus sucked and didn't belong, the big guy from Ursinus was no good, have all been things that have been referred to here the past week. 

Not too many have said we got beat by a better team that night.

Let's see... myself, sac, HopeConvert, AndersDY, DCHopeNut, tniem, and others have all commented about what a good team WashU was/is, and that they earned the national championship through their play. 

A continued discussion of that would be, well stupid.  It's a fact so why keep talking about it, plus none of us are WashU supporters, so of course we're going to talk about our team. 

Questions is  - when are you going to quit ragging on our team and its supporters and talk about yours?