MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[realist]

In Calvin's last seven games this season they went 3-4.

I think its time to drop the Calvin peaks late in the season theory untill they're able to prove otherwise in the future.

Sac:  I think you are right about that.
Calvin peaked early this past season, and than went down hill.  There is no possible reason for Calvin even to be h.m. in any pre-season poll next year.
Most of the "talent" Calvin had this past year is back next year so is hard to anticipate some sort of miracle transformation in either attitude or ability over the summer.  If none of the jv's offer that much potential than it is hard to say that are that talented.  Calvin definitely needs to get more offensive performance from the front line, and they must do a better job rebounding.  Without those two things happening Calvin will struggle to even finish the MIAA as high as they did this year.  Frankly,  I am from MO (show me) when it comes to Calvin going forward.   FWIW:  The necessary attitude adjust ment at Calvin needs to start at the top.  It serves no good purpose to have KVS commenting after the games that he is "bewildered, or frustrated", well duh, try something new like not being totally predictable.

[oldknight]

Constrained?  Not so much.
Compelled?  Absolutely.

They're synonyms, GK. From the American Heritage Dictionary:

con·strain (kən-strān')  Pronunciation Key 
tr.v. con·strained, con·strain·ing, con·strains

1. To compel by physical, moral, or circumstantial force; oblige: felt constrained to object. See Synonyms at force.

Greg, I sincerely apologize.  I was constrained to tweak you. 8)

We all should have known; after all,

You don't tug on Superman's cape,
you don't spit into the wind,
you don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger,
and you don't mess around with Greg.

[With apologies to Jim Croce]

[realist]

I found it interesting that the 3 guard offense used by TX yesterday was no more effective for them than Calvin's use of 3 guards most of the year.    

[tniem]

I found it interesting that the 3 guard offense used by TX yesterday was no more effective for them than Calvin's use of 3 guards most of the year.    

Thankfully for Calvin fans you did not have to listen to Billy Packer call all your games.  I get it, they should spread the floor. 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I found it interesting that the 3 guard offense used by TX yesterday was no more effective for them than Calvin's use of 3 guards most of the year.    

Thankfully for Calvin fans you did not have to listen to Billy Packer call all your games.  I get it, they should spread the floor. 

Billy Packer is an absolutely horrible announcer (at least IMHO).  I'm thinking you put him and Bill Walton on the same broadcast, and the world might stop spinning on its axis. 

Funniest thing I heard while watching the games this weekend was the story about Kevin Love of UCLA.  When asked if he had ever met any of the great centers from UCLA history he said,

"I've never met Mr. Jabar.  I did talk to Mr. Walton on the phone for an hour.  Well actually, we introduced ourselves for about 5 minutes, and then I just listened for the next 55."

[hope1]

man  we need something else to talk about i think

[wiz]

In Calvin's last seven games this season they went 3-4.

I think its time to drop the Calvin peaks late in the season theory untill they're able to prove otherwise in the future.

Good point, but one season does not make a historical trend.

[wiz]

After perusing graduating seniors across the nation, I slot Calvin easily in the preseason top 10, if not top 5.  (Hope may crack the top 25 if they're lucky).  Expectations will be high once again, just as they were before this disappointing season. 

At 16-11 this year it might be tough to put Calvin in next year's Top Five before they play any other games. Pollsters were burned by Calvin last year and will want to see something on the floor, I'm guessing.

I would agree and don't think they should be ranked that highly either.  Since the polls don't carry much significance, compared to winning, it may be best that they not be ranked at all.  I would suspect a bit of a slow start again, with the two new venues and the history of the Calvin teams peaking later in the year.

Yeah. Because this year's preseason poll didn't have Wash U 1 and Amherst 2.

No, I hear ya -- I would expect next October's poll to be just like every December, January, February and March poll this year, tough to figure.

As an MIAA fan it isn't significant from the standpoint that winning the league tournament is the sure way to advance to the national tournament.  Guess I wasn't too clear in my post.  And, yes, your forecast in the preseason poll this year was pretty cool and right on.

[Pat Coleman]

Sometimes we get lucky. But we do also try to add  more than a little education to our guesses.

[oldknight]

Like most Calvin fans, I thought the 2007-08 edition of Knights' basketball underachieved. However, I also think some posters have allowed their disappointment to portray a far darker picture of the future than currently exists on the East Beltline. In particular, criticism of Mantel's post play is much too negative. In November I had the pleasure of watching a truly great post player--Troy Ruths--take on Calvin at the Fieldhouse. Even my pea brain recognized Ruths as a superior interior player and the kind that championship teams often have in the middle. If you compare Mantel's first two years at Calvin with Ruths, John doesn't come out looking all that badly.

In Mantel's first year he averaged 15.3 minutes, 7.2 points, and 4 rebounds per game. His averages went up as a sophomore to 22.1, 10.4, and 5.8 per game. Ruths' numbers were 16.5, 8.6, and 4.1 as a freshmen, and 31.9, 16.6, and 7.2 as a sophomore. 

Obviously, Troy made a lot of progress between his first and second year but he also played an average of nearly 10 more minutes per game as a sophomore than did Mantel who shared a lot of post play with Engelsma. The most significant statistical difference between Ruths and Mantel their first two years is shooting percentage. Ruths shot .513 and .486 while Mantel was .408 and .438 his first two years. Part of that difference is the fact that Mantel shoots from the arc every game while Ruths only took one trey attempt his first two years. 

Their teams also had unspectacular won-loss records their first two years. Calvin has gone 19-10 and 16-11 with Mantel while WashU was 16-9 and 17-8 during Troy's first two years. Ruths then carried WashU on his back into the Final Four his junior and senior years and garnered well deserved POY honors as a senior.

My point is not to say Mantel will do the same thing. He will have to continue to make progress as a player. If he doesn't, others will pass him by. But my experience with big bodied players is that they usually do progress the longer they play college ball and I thought John did show improvement this year. His numbers for his first two years aren't that bad, particularly when you recognize the fact that this year they were a guard dominated team on offense--too much so IMHO. It wouldn't be all that surprising if Mantel winds up being the best post player in the MIAA the next two years. If he is, Calvin will be a tough opponent.

[wiz]

Like most Calvin fans, I thought the 2007-08 edition of Knights' basketball underachieved. However, I also think some posters have allowed their disappointment to portray a far darker picture of the future than currently exists on the East Beltline. In particular, criticism of Mantel's post play is much too negative. In November I had the pleasure of watching a truly great post player--Troy Ruths--take on Calvin at the Fieldhouse. Even my pea brain recognized Ruths as a superior interior player and the kind that championship teams often have in the middle. If you compare Mantel's first two years at Calvin with Ruths, John doesn't come out looking all that badly.

In Mantel's first year he averaged 15.3 minutes, 7.2 points, and 4 rebounds per game. His averages went up as a sophomore to 22.1, 10.4, and 5.8 per game. Ruths' numbers were 16.5, 8.6, and 4.1 as a freshmen, and 31.9, 16.6, and 7.2 as a sophomore. 

Obviously, Troy made a lot of progress between his first and second year but he also played an average of nearly 10 more minutes per game as a sophomore than did Mantel who shared a lot of post play with Engelsma. The most significant statistical difference between Ruths and Mantel their first two years is shooting percentage. Ruths shot .513 and .486 while Mantel was .408 and .438 his first two years. Part of that difference is the fact that Mantel shoots from the arc every game while Ruths only took one trey attempt his first two years. 

Their teams also had unspectacular won-loss records their first two years. Calvin has gone 19-10 and 16-11 with Mantel while WashU was 16-9 and 17-8 during Troy's first two years. Ruths then carried WashU on his back into the Final Four his junior and senior years and garnered well deserved POY honors as a senior.

My point is not to say Mantel will do the same thing. He will have to continue to make progress as a player. If he doesn't, others will pass him by. But my experience with big bodied players is that they usually do progress the longer they play college ball and I thought John did show improvement this year. His numbers for his first two years aren't that bad, particularly when you recognize the fact that this year they were a guard dominated team on offense--too much so IMHO. It wouldn't be all that surprising if Mantel winds up being the best post player in the MIAA the next two years. If he is, Calvin will be a tough opponent.

I think you may very well be right.  The difference will be if he is able to develop mental toughness.  So far, it has been shown in spurts.  If he is willing to play tough all the time, he could be Honderdesque.

[scottiedawg]

Troy Ruths Free Throws
56-88 .636
109-157 .694
124-188 .660
168-219 .767

John Mantel Free Throws
63-86 .733
68-93 .731

John shoots em better, but needs to take advantage of his size and actually get to the line.  Sure if his fade-towards-the-baseline jumper is working he's unstoppable, but the FT line yields sure points.  73% from your big man is pretty good.  Take Ruths' attempts from his sophomore year, use Mantel's percentage and you get a 1.7 point increase in scoring to 12.1.  12 and 6 from your sophomore big would have been mighty acceptable.

p.s. (The FT''s aren't imperative however; Brent Ruch of Elmhurst averages 16 a game, while only attempting 85 FT's)

[KnightSlappy]

John shoots em better, but needs to take advantage of his size and actually get to the line.  Sure if his fade-towards-the-baseline jumper is working he's unstoppable, but the FT line yields sure points.  73% from your big man is pretty good.  Take Ruths' attempts from his sophomore year, use Mantel's percentage and you get a 1.7 point increase in scoring to 12.1.  12 and 6 from your sophomore big would have been mighty acceptable.

Big John needs to get more comfortable with the baby hook.  I think we all recognize that John tends to fade away too much instead of using his size.  The odds are on most nights he is the biggest guy on the floor and he needs to recognize that.  If he stops fading away and instead develops the baby hook while in the post he wont be stopped easily.  I also think that the criticisms of John are due to the expectations that were too high and not his level of play.  Many of us expected him to dominate which may be a little unrealistic.  He remains my MVP pick for next year...

[Gregory Sager]

Constrained?  Not so much.
Compelled?  Absolutely.

They're synonyms, GK. From the American Heritage Dictionary:

con·strain (kən-strān')  Pronunciation Key 
tr.v. con·strained, con·strain·ing, con·strains

1. To compel by physical, moral, or circumstantial force; oblige: felt constrained to object. See Synonyms at force.

Greg, I sincerely apologize.  I was constrained to tweak you. 8)

GK, I feel compelled to accept your apology.

Troy Ruths Free Throws
56-88 .636
109-157 .694
124-188 .660
168-219 .767

John Mantel Free Throws
63-86 .733
68-93 .731

John shoots em better, but needs to take advantage of his size and actually get to the line.  Sure if his fade-towards-the-baseline jumper is working he's unstoppable, but the FT line yields sure points.  73% from your big man is pretty good.  Take Ruths' attempts from his sophomore year, use Mantel's percentage and you get a 1.7 point increase in scoring to 12.1.  12 and 6 from your sophomore big would have been mighty acceptable.

p.s. (The FT''s aren't imperative however; Brent Ruch of Elmhurst averages 16 a game, while only attempting 85 FT's)

What's remarkable about Ruths' FT performance is that he shoots 'em as well as he does in spite of the fact that his form is a coach's nightmare. He actually takes jumpers at the stripe, although he only tends to launch himself a few inches off of the floor. He also falls backwards slightly while shooting them. Mark Edwards must've figured that "don't mess with success" was the most prudent approach to coaching Ruths' foul-shooting form.

[petemcb]

Greg, I feel like I've seen some other big man in the last few years shoot his free throws with enough of a lift to slide a ream of paper under his feet.  Was it Derek Reich at Chicago?