MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Civic Minded]

Just to add my 2 cents about Mantel...I could be heard saying at the conclusion of at least one of Hope's games against Calvin this year that Mantel would be someone we would grow to "hate" over the next two years.  I like how he's maturing in his position, and will be anxious to see if that continues (and gives us fits).   

[sac]

Thought I would take a peek at the affect of graduation on each team.  I took minutes played, points socred, and rebounds for each team's seniors, and then calcualted what percentage of their team they represented.  Not surprisingly, Hope has a lot of holes to fill.

I bet if you looked at close games and tournament games, Hope's minutes, points and rebounds lost are significantly higher.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Thought I would take a peek at the affect of graduation on each team.  I took minutes played, points socred, and rebounds for each team's seniors, and then calcualted what percentage of their team they represented.  Not surprisingly, Hope has a lot of holes to fill.

I bet if you looked at close games and tournament games, Hope's minutes, points and rebounds lost are significantly higher.

Well that's not a very encouraging way of looking at it

[goodknight]

Thought I would take a peek at the affect of graduation on each team.  I took minutes played, points socred, and rebounds for each team's seniors, and then calcualted what percentage of their team they represented.  Not surprisingly, Hope has a lot of holes to fill.

I bet if you looked at close games and tournament games, Hope's minutes, points and rebounds lost are significantly higher.

Well that's not a very encouraging way of looking at it

Depends on your perspective, but no matter how you look at it I'll bet he's right.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

Thought I would take a peek at the affect of graduation on each team.  I took minutes played, points socred, and rebounds for each team's seniors, and then calcualted what percentage of their team they represented.  Not surprisingly, Hope has a lot of holes to fill.

I bet if you looked at close games and tournament games, Hope's minutes, points and rebounds lost are significantly higher.

Well that's not a very encouraging way of looking at it

Depends on your perspective, but no matter how you look at it I'll bet he's right.

I think this analysis speaks more to how a coach uses his roster rather than the quality of underclassmen.  I believe Hope had some very talented players this year that didn't get near the playing time they would have in a different program.  Yes, they may have holes to fill on the stat sheet, but I would say they have many of the players to fill those holes already on the roster. 

[wiz]

I heard from a reputable source today that there are coaching changes pending at both Hope and Adrian.  Can't tell you yet where I heard it, though.  More later...

  That is the lamest attempt at an April Fool's joke that I have heard in a long time. I was at the basketball banquet last night and there was no implication of any impending changes for the Dutch braintrust.

basketball?  braintrust?  Now who's foolinng whom?

[sac]

I think this analysis speaks more to how a coach uses his roster rather than the quality of underclassmen.  I believe Hope had some very talented players this year that didn't get near the playing time they would have in a different program.  Yes, they may have holes to fill on the stat sheet, but I would say they have many of the players to fill those holes already on the roster. 

True to some degree, they don't have a Marcus Vanderheide returning and Ryan Klein proved to be the teams best defender, someone will have to step up into that roll.  Not sure I've seen that ability from anyone returning yet.   While I think Carter has a chance to be a good point guard, he's not going to replace VanSolkema's scoring or his ability to score in the 20's.  I think there's alot of unproven ability from the returning roster.

Hope's losing about 340 games played worth of experience.   Thats alot in my opinion, being able to play smart and win with experience will be the toughest obstacle for next years team to deal with.  Especially early in the season.  Jesse Reimink's the only guy returning who would have been on the floor at any time Hope needed plays in a close game this season.

[wiz]

Doesn't John Mantel stand about 6 in behind the line....maybe the key to being an all-american center is a quirky FT setup?

And he rotates the ball in a counterclockwise circular motion just before launching the free throw.

[hoopdreams]

I don't think the comment about the underclassmen getting more playing time could be more accurate.  After watching more than a handful of practices during the season, I can say that  many a time the 2nd group more than held their own, and that assessment would be backed up by the starters.  Many of the scrimmage situations were more challenging than  several actual games that were played  y the Dutchmen.  

I happened to be sitting next to a WHAC coaching staff member during one of the pre conference games, and it was noted that Hope's second group, with improved rebounding, could finish in the top half of both the MIAA and WHAC this past season. Pretty lofty observations in my opinion.

And I believe that the rebounding "issue" will be the only thing potentially keeping the dutch from contending next season.  We shall see

[Gregory Sager]

Doesn't John Mantel stand about 6 in behind the line....maybe the key to being an all-american center is a quirky FT setup?

And he rotates the ball in a counterclockwise circular motion just before launching the free throw.

As an engineering major, he's probably done field studies for one of his advanced physics classes on how to use the Coriolis effect to reduce atmospheric drag on a 29.5" sphere traveling through the air at 240 meters above sea level.

If he goes on to play professional basketball in Australia, he will no doubt alter his routine and start rotating the ball in a clockwise motion just before launching his free throws.

[Pat Coleman]

Oof ...

[sac]

Good onya Sager

We all feel the kangaroos loose in the top paddock when your around.

[realist]

If you compare Mantel's first two years at Calvin with Ruths, John doesn't come out looking all that badly.

In Mantel's first year he averaged 15.3 minutes, 7.2 points, and 4 rebounds per game. His averages went up as a sophomore to 22.1, 10.4, and 5.8 per game. Ruths' numbers were 16.5, 8.6, and 4.1 as a freshmen, and 31.9, 16.6, and 7.2 as a sophomore. 

Obviously, Troy made a lot of progress between his first and second year but he also played an average of nearly 10 more minutes per game as a sophomore than did Mantel who shared a lot of post play with Engelsma. .

My point is not to say Mantel will do the same thing. He will have to continue to make progress as a player. If he doesn't, others will pass him by. But my experience with big bodied players is that they usually do progress the longer they play college ball and I thought John did show improvement this year. His numbers for his first two years aren't that bad, particularly when you recognize the fact that this year they were a guard dominated team on offense--too much so IMHO. It wouldn't be all that surprising if Mantel winds up being the best post player in the MIAA the next two years. If he is, Calvin will be a tough opponent.

Interesting comparison, and the one that jumps out is 10 minutes more per game time average.  KVS has not shown he is inclined to use an advantage when he has it.  Ruths got better because he played those extra minutes.  John has not gotten one bit better watching anyone else play while sitting on the bench.  Neither have the other inside players. 
Why don't you address the use of the 3 guard offense which features a 5'9" guard, and we wonder why Calvin gets out rebounded?   Katt neither scores nor rebounds but plays lots of minutes?  What is going on here? 

CM:  I wouldn't worry too much about having to learn to hate John Mantel.  KVS has not shown he is going to play his bigger guys that much.  Now if he starts playing MVH type minutes worry is a good idea. 

[Civic Minded]

Realist -- your posts always make my day.  Once again, a tip of the hat to you.   

[realist]

Thanks for the kind words.  My fellow Calvin fans have been beating up on me lately.  I think things need to be changed, and they think we just need to dream pleasant dreams some more.    Going 16-11 with the 3 guard offfense shows that may not have been the best strategy this past season.  Going 16-11 if our bigs had been playing and learning would IMHO be a better situation going into 08-09. 
I think Hope is going to have a very good team next year.  They may struggle a bit early in the season, but once the MIAA rolls around they may be near typical Dutch standards.  In fact 4 teams could very well be vying for the title come next Feb.