MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[GoKnights68]

Good post, realist.

I have heard from some good sources that there is "talk" of a football program.. Now that "talk" is just simply asking if they should be even consider it.  I don't think we'll here much other new rumors for a while.  With the popularity of high school football growing, such as at schools like GR Christian and Holland Christian, I guess you have to at least think about it.  That being said, it won't be for a very long time, if ever, that they'll get a team imo.


It looks like Hope will still add another all-sports banner I am guessing?  I'm not too sure how Calvin will address being co-champs for the cup.  Realist is right, Calvin does not always place that much emphasis on sports as a whole, but I am hoping the new arena draws more fans (fans that cheer perhaps?) to the basketball games like they used to.  ...Although I am really excited about the direction the baseball program is going with Coach Sparks!  Good luck to Adrian and Calvin this week in the tourney.

[sac]

$49.5 Million emphasis.

[realist]

Sac:  My statement was "overpowering importance" on athletics.  By this I meant athletics are just part of the college, and not the tail wagging the whole dog.  The buildings cost what the buildings cost, and Calvin wants to have an entire physical plant that meets student needs.  I have neither read nor heard anything that would lead me to believe Calvin has "suddenly" placed more emphasis on athletics.  In fact the old fieldhouse built in 65 was one of the earlier buildings constructed on Knollcrest campus, and served it's intended purpose well.  It was time to upgrade the fieldhouse, and rather than thinking small Calvin choose to meet it's needs by a series of building replacements, modifications, and new structures.  Both the college Commons building, and the Fine Arts Center (built shortly after the fieldhouse) are also scheduled for significant remodeling and additions. 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

So I'm guessing there is no truth to the rumor I've heard in the past about some land donor whose donation included a clause about the donation being withdrawn if Calvin ever started a football team?

[sac]

I just find the whole Calvin not really putting much emphasis on athletics to be silly.   I'm not accusing or suggesting that Calvin is some kind of jock school, or puts more emphasis on athletics than they should.  The fact is Hope and Calvin both put alot of stock and take great pride in their athletic teams successes, just as Kzoo and Albion did and still do before Hope and Calvin became bigger fish.  Its part of why the MIAA is such a good conference to follow, there's a lot of history and tradition among the 7 longest standing members (yes all seven).  I don't really think there's any shame in having a succesfull total athletics program. 

I guess it was this little snippet.........

Realist is right, Calvin does not always place that much emphasis on sports as a whole, ............

I find it hard to believe that in the 50 odd years Calvin's been in the MIAA they've managed to fall into 229 MIAA Championships without trying very hard.   
http://miaa.org/history/hiswon.html


Calvin has won an MIAA title in every sport but 4 .......Football (obvious), Men's golf, Women's golf (only 17 years) and Men's Tennis which should get an asterisk because every school not named Kalamazoo has failed to win a men's tennis title since before Calvin even joined the MIAA.

I would guess that in most of those years Hope's won the Commissioner's Cup/All-Sports trophy that some folks like to mock..........Calvin was sitting 2nd.

[GoKnights68]

Sac, I think you would be have to either attend here or work here to know what Realist and I are talking about.


And Calvin does have a top-notch d3 athletic program, I agree.

[Dark Knight]

I agree that the emphasis on athletics at Calvin is not as out of whack as it is at some institutions--like Notre Dame, say. There certainly is some emphasis, and there certainly are some rabid fans, but over all, athletics have a healthy place among many other pursuits. There is little call for a football program among faculty, staff, or the board of directors. Or even students and alumni, for that matter. Realist is probably right that that gene has been weeded out of the community DNA in an almost Darwinian fashion. Most would probably say that the the resources required for football (space, money, interest, etc.) would be out of whack.

Development had some difficulty raising the money for the athletic complex. (Hence the all the years on the master plan ) Some of the major donors apparently want to give money for academic and faith-related purposes rather than an arena or swimming pool.

---

Adrian is doing its part for the MIAA with a win over second-seeded Wooster, 4-3, earlier this evening. Go dogs! [At least for this game...]

[KnightSlappy]

I find it hard to believe that in the 50 odd years Calvin's been in the MIAA they've managed to fall into 229 MIAA Championships without trying very hard.   
http://miaa.org/history/hiswon.html

Emphasis on athletics is much different than support for, or success of, the athletic programs.  I feel that Calvin has done an excellent job in supporting and encouraging athletes to achieve success on the playing field but has done so without making "winning" a priority.  Of course Calvin celebrates its athletes and championships but the average student is not made to feel unimportant.  Calvin supports a variety of extra-curricular activities such as music, theatre, dance, etc. and has plans to renovate several other buildings on campus, not just the Fieldhouse Complex.  Although Calvin has had much success in many D3 sports it is in no way an "Athletics" school,  I think that is what realist and the others have been saying.

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks for the response, Realist, and thanks as well to the others who followed up his post. Very enlightening.

In a sense, though, your response was very discouraging to me as a North Park alumnus. My alma mater joined the CCIW in 1962, not all that long after Calvin joined the MIAA in 1953, but was not given the option of entering the league without having a football program in place. Of course, North Park already had a football program when it joined the league, and it had had one for many decades on the juco level prior to the school becoming a four-year institution in the late fifties. But the football program has, for various reasons I won't get into here, flailed in sick-joke futility for almost the entire time that the Park has been a member of the league; only three times (1968, 1971, and 1979) have the Vikings broken even in CCIW play, and only twice (1968 and 1993) have they avoided an overall losing record. The desire to drop the football program and divert the school's meager athletic resources elsewhere has frequently been expressed over the years by many students, alumni, and administrators. However, the CCIW constitution forbids it, as each member school is required to field a team in each of the four core sports (football, women's volleyball, and men's and women's basketball). Thus, barring a miracle turnaround of Kansas State proportions (and I'd dearly love to see current Vikings head football coach Scott Pethtel -- an Adrian alumnus, by the way -- achieve it) NPU is stuck in perpetuity in its role as the CCIW's patsy on the gridiron.

(Of course, football is now seen as a positive in terms of keeping male enrollment numbers up in an era in which female college students are now outnumbering male college students 2-to-1 across the country.)

It's tough as a diehard NPU supporter to watch that never-ending football futility and not feel a twinge of envy that the MIAA allowed Calvin into its ranks in spite of the fact that the school didn't (and still doesn't) have a football program.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I agree that the emphasis on athletics at Calvin is not as out of whack as it is at some institutions--like Notre Dame, say.

I don't think anyone who reads this board would ever think that any MIAA school would be anywhere near a DI institution when it comes to emphisis on athletics.  That's like comparing apples to pianos. 

I just find the whole Calvin not really putting much emphasis on athletics to be silly.  

From a DIII perspective you're dead on sac.  Consider how much the school invests in recruiting (time & money) if you want to talk about emphasis.  And I'm not saying that it's any higher at Calvin than it is at Hope, or any of a number of DIII schools.

[tniem]

Sac, I think you would be have to either attend here or work here to know what Realist and I are talking about.

Please help enlighten us.  After all, we hear all about Calvin so often on this board - it seems like its a big deal to a few of you.  So tell me does Calvin really not care about sports at all or is it that your social life on campus as completely dead as has been suggested in some of the guides in recent years?



By the way, I visited Calvin and grew up within a quarter mile of the campus and went to many Calvin bball games before HS - and as an outsider I wouldn't agree with either of the sentiments that I expressed above.  But you are going to have to explain more about this before we accept the thinly veiled swipe at Hope's emphasis on athletics, which most of us would not say is unhealthy. 

[KnightSlappy]

By the way, I visited Calvin and grew up within a quarter mile of the campus and went to many Calvin bball games before HS - and as an outsider I wouldn't agree with either of the sentiments that I expressed above.  But you are going to have to explain more about this before we accept the thinly veiled swipe at Hope's emphasis on athletics, which most of us would not say is unhealthy. 

I don't think that this emphasis on athletics discussion started as a "swipe at Hope" but more as a reason as to why Calvin has not added a football program.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Must be the off-season.  This place is turning back into Semantics Central.  At least in a month we'll be able to go catch some summer league games   

[realist]

But you are going to have to explain more about this before we accept the thinly veiled swipe at Hope's emphasis on athletics, which most of us would not say is unhealthy. 

I am sorry if I somehow offended you.  When I wrote my 'SILLY" posts I really never gave any thought to Hope College, and even less to whether or not Hope places a greater or lesser emphasis on sports than Calvin does.   
I do not know enough about the inside operation of Hope College or how it views itself, to form an opinion one way or the other.   
I attended Calvin, and remain in reasonably close contact with many faculty, staff, students, and administrators there.   What I see, read, hear and observe leads me to conclude that sports are important at Calvin, but not so important that it dominates the College or how it sees itself.  As a sports fan I really would like it if Calvin would beat the sports drum a bit more than it has, and does.  It is a fact the current fund drive has had greater difficulty getting alums., and deep pockets enthused about the Spoelhof complex than any other portion of the fund drive. 

 

I don't think that this emphasis on athletics discussion started as a "swipe at Hope" but more as a reason as to why Calvin has not added a football program.

[calvinite]

I agree with Realist that Calvin shoot toot their horn more. The day after the 1st Hope-Calvin game, the teachers where I teach commented that Calvin's half-time ads that were shown on the PBS station didn't mention athletics at all.
we all  thought this would be a great place to highlight athletics in terms of recruitment. I was at the game and didn't watch the ads, but I paid attention during the half time of the second game which I did watch on TV. There WERE references to athletics in Calvin's ads, so I don't know if Calvin added them, or if our teachers just missed them the first time. Nevertheless, there WAS a stark contrast between the emphasis of athletics in the adds shown by Hope and the lack of emphasis on athletics in the Calvin ads. And before anyone chews me out for criticizing Hope for emphasizing athletics too much, I'd like to point out that (1) I started this post by saying Calvin should toot their horn more and (2) I said we believed that half time of a basketball game is a perfect place to do it.