MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[hoopdreams]

Hope's team photo is up and a rumor I had heard late last week was confirmed: Jorin Scott, 6'6 forward who made the team, is no longer in the program.  A long, very athletic player who was "quite raw"  by word of mouth.  Never saw him play personally.  I believe he is still on campus and I hope all works out with him.

[realist]

CM:  I think I understand the point you are trying to make.  Coach Turner knew how to work the refs, and knew when his team needed to take a time out.  Equally important he was able to sub etc. as the situation on the floor demanded it, plus he knew when to call a time out to cool off another teams hot hand or shooter.  Albion will definitely miss all those little things that Turner did that made him such an effective coach.  If the new guy can remain a calm presence on the bench Albion does well, but if he goes  "smokin Joe" it probably won't be pretty.

[MIdoubleA]

Hope's team photo is up and a rumor I had heard late last week was confirmed: Jorin Scott, 6'6 forward who made the team, is no longer in the program.  A long, very athletic player who was "quite raw"  by word of mouth.  Never saw him play personally.  I believe he is still on campus and I hope all works out with him.

*Warning, the following question has no root in reality, just my own meandering thoughts*

Does Jorin's departure open a spot for Logan Neil? Is he that good? Certainly they are different types of players, particularly in size, but I was just curious what ya'll thought.

[Stinger]

If anyone has watched Jody May, the "new guy" over the past 10+ seasons, I don't think one would say he has been all "smokin joe" on the sidelines or whatever the hell that means.  If you are referring to the way Haklin got the most of what he had, then yeah, I see JM doing that. I would contend he's as much the reason for Albion's success over the past 5 years as MT. 

[MItwoA]

Hope's team photo is up and a rumor I had heard late last week was confirmed: Jorin Scott, 6'6 forward who made the team, is no longer in the program.  A long, very athletic player who was "quite raw"  by word of mouth.  Never saw him play personally.  I believe he is still on campus and I hope all works out with him.

*Warning, the following question has no root in reality, just my own meandering thoughts*

Does Jorin's departure open a spot for Logan Neil? Is he that good? Certainly they are different types of players, particularly in size, but I was just curious what ya'll thought.

I am pretty sure that it won't because Hope currently had 16 players on their roster.  GVW likes to go with a 15 man rotation, 5 v 5 v 5 in practices.  I also heard Joran might be playing on the JV team if things didn't work out on varsity.  Anyone know if this is true?

[realist]

If anyone has watched Jody May, the "new guy" over the past 10+ seasons, I don't think one would say he has been all "smokin joe" on the sidelines or whatever the hell that means.  If you are referring to the way Haklin got the most of what he had, then yeah, I see JM doing that. I would contend he's as much the reason for Albion's success over the past 5 years as MT. 

I probably could have used a better choice of words, and explained myself more fully.  My main point is;  I think Albion will respond well to coach May if he doesn't change things too drastically in the first year or two.  I question how the players would respond when they look to the bench for guidance, and suddenly find a more demostrative coach.  I think that Coach Haklin used every strategy and tactic he could to help his teams.  My intent was not to demean or slam Coach Joe by any means, but just contrast coaching styles.  I recall the struggles and difficulty the remaining players at Calvin had when Coach Eddie Douma was let go, and than KVS took over.  My preseason pick has Albion a solid 3rd in the MIAA race.  However, I could be very wrong and with a new coach Albion gets energized and moves up.

[Civic Minded]

Hope's team photo is up and a rumor I had heard late last week was confirmed: Jorin Scott, 6'6 forward who made the team, is no longer in the program.  A long, very athletic player who was "quite raw"  by word of mouth.  Never saw him play personally.  I believe he is still on campus and I hope all works out with him.

*Warning, the following question has no root in reality, just my own meandering thoughts*

Does Jorin's departure open a spot for Logan Neil? Is he that good? Certainly they are different types of players, particularly in size, but I was just curious what ya'll thought.

Logan is a very good, very smart player.  I can't compare him to anyone currently on the JV team (haven't seen them), but if he would end up on varsity, I wouldn't be disappointed or surprised in the least.  He played with the team this summer, and held his own quite nicely.  Whether there is a position there for him...that I couldn't tell you.

At the moment, he's focusing all of his energies on finishing the soccer season well, and hopefully advancing into tournament play.  I had a chance to see him play on Saturday and was once again very impressed -- he played the entire 2nd half and both OT's, and handled it very well.  Rest assured, when soccer season is over there will be time for him to find his place in basketball, and he has the talent needed to prove he belongs there.

[thealmascots]

How about a new topic for the old guys on this board:  Who are the top 5 MIAA players since 1978 (when I believe the MIAA starting sending a rep to the NCAA tournament). 

Here are mine:

Steve Honderd - Calvin
Eric Elliott - Hope
Wade Gugino - Hope
Bill Sall - Calvin
Joel Holstege - Hope

[realist]

RE:  Top players since 78.  To avoid having a bias towards earlier players I suggest a person look at the MIAA site to find All MIAA first team players.
From there compute the number of players that were 4 time All MIAA 1st team.  All MIAA 1st team four years is a short list.   
Factor in that C. Veldhouse at Calvin has the potential to join that list this season. 
Next look at the players that have made 1st team 3 years, and work from there. 
This board never has, and  probably never will reach a concensus of the top 5 for any time period.  Leaving somebody like Elliot, Gugino, Sall or Holstege off the list is a really hard decision.    
I have been posting way to long to ever expect any Hope poster to agree that Veldhouse goes on the list over either Holstege or Elliot.    However,  Veldhouse was able to do something as a fr. that neither of them did.   That is why I asked a number of pages back if any of this years fr. class has the potential to have that level of impact.

[hopehoopfan]

Hope's team photo is up and a rumor I had heard late last week was confirmed: Jorin Scott, 6'6 forward who made the team, is no longer in the program.  A long, very athletic player who was "quite raw"  by word of mouth.  Never saw him play personally.  I believe he is still on campus and I hope all works out with him.

*Warning, the following question has no root in reality, just my own meandering thoughts*

Does Jorin's departure open a spot for Logan Neil? Is he that good? Certainly they are different types of players, particularly in size, but I was just curious what ya'll thought.

I am pretty sure that it won't because Hope currently had 16 players on their roster.  GVW likes to go with a 15 man rotation, 5 v 5 v 5 in practices.  I also heard Joran might be playing on the JV team if things didn't work out on varsity.  Anyone know if this is true?

I would rather doubt it as word on the team was he "quit"

[calvinite]

How about a new topic for the old guys on this board:  Who are the top 5 MIAA players since 1978 (when I believe the MIAA starting sending a rep to the NCAA tournament). 

Here are mine:

Steve Honderd - Calvin
Eric Elliott - Hope
Wade Gugino - Hope
Bill Sall - Calvin
Joel Holstege - Hope

I don't know enough of MIAA history to reply, so I should keep my mouth shut, but I'd be surprised if Jeremy Veenstra wouldn't be included on this team: MIAA MVP, I think 4 MIAA ALL Team selection (I don't know if it was first team or not), and, more importantly, something that only one other player on the list above has: a national championship.

[realist]

LTK: J Veenstra was one of the select group of players that was 1st team All MIAA 4 years.  You might want to look at www.miaa.org to look at the selections yourself.

[GoKnights68]

RE:  Top players since 78.  To avoid having a bias towards earlier players I suggest a person look at the MIAA site to find All MIAA first team players.
From there compute the number of players that were 4 time All MIAA 1st team.  All MIAA 1st team four years is a short list.   
Factor in that C. Veldhouse at Calvin has the potential to join that list this season. 
Next look at the players that have made 1st team 3 years, and work from there. 
This board never has, and  probably never will reach a concensus of the top 5 for any time period.  Leaving somebody like Elliot, Gugino, Sall or Holstege off the list is a really hard decision.    
I have been posting way to long to ever expect any Hope poster to agree that Veldhouse goes on the list over either Holstege or Elliot.    However,  Veldhouse was able to do something as a fr. that neither of them did.   That is why I asked a number of pages back if any of this years fr. class has the potential to have that level of impact.

I'll just say one thing about Veldhouse.  His stats by the end of his career may give him a good argument to put him very high on some lists, such as the one being discussed now, but Veldhouse has to show this season that he can be a good team-leader to be in this discussion.  Although he has an outright miaa championship and a miaa tourney championship, he is still 3-9 vs Hope (Yes, that is very important stat), and he hasn't been past the second round in the NCAA tourney.

Bottom line is, he already has the stats to put him up there with the greats if you go strictly by stats, but I say he needs to win the MIAA regular season, win the MIAA MVP, go at least 2-0 or 2-1 against Hope, and go to at least the NCAA sweet 16 to be up there with the greats in my book.  I know those are all tough accomplishments, but they are all reachable.

[Stinger]

RE:  Top players since 78.  To avoid having a bias towards earlier players I suggest a person look at the MIAA site to find All MIAA first team players.
From there compute the number of players that were 4 time All MIAA 1st team.  All MIAA 1st team four years is a short list.   
Factor in that C. Veldhouse at Calvin has the potential to join that list this season. 
Next look at the players that have made 1st team 3 years, and work from there. 
This board never has, and  probably never will reach a concensus of the top 5 for any time period.  Leaving somebody like Elliot, Gugino, Sall or Holstege off the list is a really hard decision.    
I have been posting way to long to ever expect any Hope poster to agree that Veldhouse goes on the list over either Holstege or Elliot.    However,  Veldhouse was able to do something as a fr. that neither of them did.   That is why I asked a number of pages back if any of this years fr. class has the potential to have that level of impact.

I'll just say one thing about Veldhouse.  His stats by the end of his career may give him a good argument to put him very high on some lists, such as the one being discussed now, but Veldhouse has to show this season that he can be a good team-leader to be in this discussion.  Although he has an outright miaa championship and a miaa tourney championship, he is still 3-9 vs Hope (Yes, that is very important stat), and he hasn't been past the second round in the NCAA tourney.

Bottom line is, he already has the stats to put him up there with the greats if you go strictly by stats, but I say he needs to win the MIAA regular season, win the MIAA MVP, go at least 2-0 or 2-1 against Hope, and go to at least the NCAA sweet 16 to be up there with the greats in my book.  I know those are all tough accomplishments, but they are all reachable.

Sorry, but unless Veldhouse averages a triple double and leads his team to a national championship this season, I just don't see it.

[GoKnights68]

RE:  Top players since 78.  To avoid having a bias towards earlier players I suggest a person look at the MIAA site to find All MIAA first team players.
From there compute the number of players that were 4 time All MIAA 1st team.  All MIAA 1st team four years is a short list.   
Factor in that C. Veldhouse at Calvin has the potential to join that list this season. 
Next look at the players that have made 1st team 3 years, and work from there. 
This board never has, and  probably never will reach a concensus of the top 5 for any time period.  Leaving somebody like Elliot, Gugino, Sall or Holstege off the list is a really hard decision.    
I have been posting way to long to ever expect any Hope poster to agree that Veldhouse goes on the list over either Holstege or Elliot.    However,  Veldhouse was able to do something as a fr. that neither of them did.   That is why I asked a number of pages back if any of this years fr. class has the potential to have that level of impact.

I'll just say one thing about Veldhouse.  His stats by the end of his career may give him a good argument to put him very high on some lists, such as the one being discussed now, but Veldhouse has to show this season that he can be a good team-leader to be in this discussion.  Although he has an outright miaa championship and a miaa tourney championship, he is still 3-9 vs Hope (Yes, that is very important stat), and he hasn't been past the second round in the NCAA tourney.

Bottom line is, he already has the stats to put him up there with the greats if you go strictly by stats, but I say he needs to win the MIAA regular season, win the MIAA MVP, go at least 2-0 or 2-1 against Hope, and go to at least the NCAA sweet 16 to be up there with the greats in my book.  I know those are all tough accomplishments, but they are all reachable.

Sorry, but unless Veldhouse averages a triple double and leads his team to a national championship this season, I just don't see it.

Well he is the clear favorite to win the mvp right now.  Calvin could easily be chosen to win the league by the coaches.  Winning both games against Hope is obviously possible.  And winning just 2 tourney games could easily happen.

I am not saying if he doesn't do these things, that they will tarnish his legacy or anything.  I just think to be in a top 5 list, he needs to accomplish a lot his senior season.