MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ChicagoHopeNut]

You need 7 schools for an auto-bid for basketball and football.

The MIAA is unique in that one of its members doesn't play football, hence the need to borrow Wisc-Lutheran for a few years.

Thanks sac!

I counted wrong above. Wisc. Luth was added to get to 7 (not 8 ) football schools. Poor Calvin causing so much confusion.


**fixed formating

[realist]

Wasn't adding Defiance in the late 90's also an answer to the football qualifer issue?

[sac]

I was curious how this new 3 point line would affect how teams played.  I think the theory would be, move the line out and you should see fewer attempts, and fewer makes.

check and check.

Through the same number of games for each team, 35 total, last season vs this season.

MIAA 2008   252-720  .350
MIAA 2009   192-566  .339

Thats a drop of 4.4 attempts per game, and 1.7 makes per game.

The MIAA opponents had  a smaller drop, although the % went up

MIAA opponents 2008   231-670  .344
MIAA opponents 2009   217-579  .375

2.6 fewer attempts,  .4 fewer makes.

How much is related to player personnel changes is hard to say, obviously these are not the same teams as a year ago. 

Here's how each team is doing compared to last

Adrian 08  39-109  .358
Adrian 09  24-76    .316

Albion 08   33-77     .428
Albion 09   16-48    .333

Alma 08     18-71     .254
Alma 09     27-79     .342

Calvin 08   37-91     .407
Calvin 09   27-76     .355

Hope 08    32-89      .360
Hope 09    20-65      .308

Kzoo 08     26-86      .302
Kzoo 09     25-63      .397

Olivet 08    33-98      .337
Olivet 09    43-121    .355

Trine 08     34-99      .343
Trine 09     10-38      .263

Alma, Olivet and Kzoo are shooting a higher percentage.  Only Olivet is taking a significantly higher number of 3 point shots.

Adrian, Albion, Calvin, Hope and Trine are all well down % wise from last season.

We'll see how this plays out as the year goes on, but I do think the 3 point numbers will continue to be below last years.  Kind of a shame, one of the things I really liked about the D3 style of play is the number of three point shots always seemed higher than D1.  So many undersized kids in D3 that can just flat out shoot the ball, this was their level to shine.  I'm afraid that may have changed. 

[oldknight]

I was curious how this new 3 point line would affect how teams played.  I think the theory would be, move the line out and you should see fewer attempts, and fewer makes.

check and check.

Through the same number of games for each team, 35 total, last season vs this season.

MIAA 2008   252-720  .350
MIAA 2009   192-566  .339

Thats a drop of 4.4 attempts per game, and 1.7 makes per game.




We'll see how this plays out as the year goes on, but I do think the 3 point numbers will continue to be below last years.  Kind of a shame, one of the things I really liked about the D3 style of play is the number of three point shots always seemed higher than D1.  So many undersized kids in D3 that can just flat out shoot the ball, this was their level to shine.  I'm afraid that may have changed. 

Kudos to sac on his excellent spade work, but I have a different take on the stats he provided. In the games I have observed, I have kept an informal mental check list of the times I have seen a long shot taken that was a three last year but only was for two under the new rule. It seems to me that I have seen this happen about 4 times a game--precisely the difference between the number of triples taken this year compared to last.

What that tells me is that there are just as many "long" shots (shots outside of last year's arc) this year as there was before the arc was extended. If perimeter players are typically spotting up further from the basket, the purpose of the rule (to spread the players on the floor) is served without any loss in total long shots taken. Defenses are still required to defend shots taken from around the old arc as well as from the new line.

As the theory goes, if perimeter players are spread further from the basket, there will be more room for other players to maneuver in the paint. I tried testing that theory (admittedly based on a very limited sample of games) by checking John Mantel's stats under the two rules. Last year John averaged 43.8% from the field. This year his shooting percentage has skyrocketed to 62.2%--a dramatic increase of 18.4%. Maybe Mantel has improved his game but less traffic in the lane may also be an explanation for such a dramatic improvement in shooting percentage. It seems to me John has gotten more one-on-one opportunities this year and when that happens, any post player has a better chance of putting the ball in the hoop.

[HopeConvert]

The drop in 3-point shooting may also be explained by who graduated and who replaced them.

[sac]

Good thoughts Oldknight.

The drop in 3-point shooting may also be explained by who graduated and who replaced them.

Could also hold true

Albion graduated:  Mocini, Cash and Raven all above 40% shooters or 113 treys

Calvin graduated:  Griffin 39%, 73 treys

Hope graduated: VanSolkema, Wolfe, Vanderheide, Klein  40%, 45%, 40 and 36 or 180 treys

[goodknight]

I didn't want to let the day pass without noting the death of former Calvin President William Spoelhof.  Dr. Spoelhof served a quarter-century as the college's president, from 1951 to 1976, and remained a figure of elegance and intellectual force on the campus until just a few months ago.  He would have marked his 99th birthday next Monday, but instead his body will be buried.
He was a keen student of basketball and loved the Knights.  His gold jacket stood out boldly on the mezzanine level of the Calvin Fieldhouse.
I had fervently hoped that he would live to experience the opening of the VanNoord Arena, but his spirit will be with all those who care about Calvin College and its endeavors. 
Sleep with the angels, Dr. Spoelhof.

[Civic Minded]

Good thoughts Oldknight.

The drop in 3-point shooting may also be explained by who graduated and who replaced them.

Could also hold true

Albion graduated:  Mocini, Cash and Raven all above 40% shooters or 113 treys

Calvin graduated:  Griffin 39%, 73 treys

Hope graduated: VanSolkema, Wolfe, Vanderheide, Klein  40%, 45%, 40 and 36 or 180 treys

My money would be on this theory at the moment.  Not many of those listed above worried a bit about where the 3-pt line was, especailly VanSolkema, Mocini and Griffin.  Since they shot from way behind the old 3-pt line, the game is only changed for the few that occasionally shoot the three, and then right from the edge of 2-pt land. 

Still, if it were possible to factor out the change in players, I'm sure there will be some (albeit slight) change in the overall game w/ the new line.  I wonder if it will be enough to notice.

Just finding gk's post as I was about to hit post myself -- condolences to the Spoelhof family and to Calvin College.  It's tough to lose someone you care about at anytime, but with the holidays and so many milestones so close at hand, I'm sure this loss will be especially difficult.  Prayers to all.

[scottiedawg]

For the stat-happy posters, here is the TO/MIN leaders in the MIAA.
I qualified it by players averaging 20 min a game.

.01 Zach Osburn
.01 Ty Tanis
.01 Glen Alfieri
.02 Andrew Holms
.03 Dustin Smith
.03 Nate Orozco
.04 Henry McCain
.04 Brett Asher
.04 David Stasiak
.05 Ryan Clark
.05 Matt Wayne
.06 Trent Salo
.06 Michael McClary
.06 Andre Bridges
.07 Desmond Young
.07 Brandon McClary
.07 Joel Kerns
.07 Drew Yancey
.07 AJ Williams
.07 Wes Weir
.08 Jesse Reimink
.08 Lamar Jackson
.08 Dwight VanHoesen
.08 Caleb Veldhouse
.09 John Mantel
.09 Danny Rodts
.09 Will Bowser
.10 Andre Patrick
.10 Andre Evans
.11 Bill Leising
.12 Ben Jerome
.12 James Scott
.12 Randall Harris
.14 Michael Staley
.14 Pete Bunn
.19 Deon Thompson

To make those numbers a but more tangible, here are what the total turnovers would be per game if the player played all 200 min.

.01=2
.05=10
.10-20
.14=28
.19=38

[oldknight]

There is only a small handful of people I could truly call great and remarkable. William Spoelhof was one such person. If you ever get a chance to read anything about the exploits of this amazing man, take the time to do so. RIP Dr. Spoelhof.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I need to supplement my earlier post with my favorite Dr. Spoelhof story--told to me only a couple of years ago--and which happens to be sports related. This story comes from an acquaintance who is now a Grand Rapids area attorney. He was a student at Calvin in the 1960's and played soccer for the Knights.

The team took a long road trip into Indiana and on the return home the bus stopped for dinner at an Indiana restaurant just south of the Michigan border. The soccer team got some stares from other restaurant patrons. A nervous manager came over to tell the team they could not be served unless the team's lone black player would return to the bus. The black player took the request in stride but my acquaintance and his friends were furious. They promptly left the restaurant in a huff and on the way out took the time to put their soccer training to use on some of the furniture. Some of the chairs also wound being stacked (not all that neatly) on the now vacated tables, and a few salt and pepper dispensers found their way on to the Calvin bus. A wise bus driver quickly high tailed it to the Michigan border.

A couple of days later my acquaintance and a couple of other players were summoned to the President's office where they were met by a grim faced Dr. Spoelhof. He advised that Calvin had received an Indiana State Police report detailing damage done by the school's soccer team and suggesting that the team members find their way back to Indiana for charges. After giving a full explanation of events by the summoned players, Dr. Spoelhof, in a stern tone, said, "Let me ask you just one question; would Jesus Christ approve of your behavior in this circumstance?" The future barrister, quaking as if appeaing for his first hearing before the Supreme Court, mustered all the courage he had in order to firmly answer with a "Yes."

"Well, so do I" responded Dr. Spoelhof. He then added that he was going to tell the Indiana authorities that if they wanted to arrest the team they could come to Knollcrest and try to do so, but that as college President, he thought his friends at the Grand Rapids Press would be interested in the entire, unedited story of what happened.

The restaurant chose not to press the matter further.

The respect these players had for Dr. Spoelhof--who refused to throw the school's soccer team under the school bus--grew enormously as a result of his response. It's a remarkable story about a remarkable man who was by temperment, upbringing, training, and occupation, a conservative man serving an even more conservative constituency. Yet, he courageously faced a potentially unpleasant event by backing his soccer team at a time when they needed him to be their friend. Truly a man for all seasons.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

To make those numbers a but more tangible, here are what the total turnovers would be per game if the player played all 200 min.

.01=2
.05=10
.10-20
.14=28
.19=38

If you have one guy play all 200 minutes of a game, turnovers will be the least of your worries.  No assists will be possible, which will lead to an assist/turnover ratio that can not be calculated.  Defending the other team's 5 guys by yourself is going to be a bit tough, and your offense might be a bit predictable.  Not to mention that it will do nothing to help gel your team and will probably cause a terminal case of the gitters.   

[SKOT]

To make those numbers a but more tangible, here are what the total turnovers would be per game if the player played all 200 min.

.01=2
.05=10
.10-20
.14=28
.19=38

If you have one guy play all 200 minutes of a game, turnovers will be the least of your worries.  No assists will be possible, which will lead to an assist/turnover ratio that can not be calculated.  Defending the other team's 5 guys by yourself is going to be a bit tough, and your offense might be a bit predictable.  Not to mention that it will do nothing to help gel your team and will probably cause a terminal case of the gitters.   

I wonder who is going to win the opening tip if the persons taking the tip cannot control the ball themselves...I bet inbounding the ball is pretty tricky too!

[realist]

I found ScottieD's numbers interesting, and thought using the minutes as a tangible evidence made a point.  To me the weakness of the calculation is how many times does the player touch the ball, and how many minutes does the player control the ball.  If the player touches the ball 10 times in a game and turns it over once it is different from a pg that touches the ball 100 or 200 times and turns it over 5 or 10 times.   If you use turnovers as the sole judge of performance the trick is simple, avoid contact with the ball.
I don't think many Hope fans would want to see Jesse Reimink avoid contact with the ball even if he has 16 turnovers for every 200 minutes played.

[scottiedawg]

To me the weakness of the calculation is how many times does the player touch the ball, and how many minutes does the player control the ball. 

Great point.  Since we don't have a "touches" stat, if people just mentally recognized PG's like Veldhouse, Bunn, Redditt, etc, and star players like Reimink, Mantel, McClary bros, McCain, Young, etc, and realized that those guys turnover numbers are probably not as bad as they first appear, we can control for the whole "touches" thing. 

[sac]

200 minutes...........

this seems like the right place for this  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCy8MpT45gk