MBB: Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference

[Mr. Ypsi]

Actually, Mr. Ypsi, that isn't likely to be true. While they might get 10 people of that sort from the campus community at large, they are truly likely to bring in at least 80 people if they want.

Most startup Division III football programs have more like 100 incoming players the first season. I chose 80 to cover the possibility of "walk-ons" already existing on campus.

Those numbers just don't 'feel' right to me, but you are The Guru, so I'll take your word for it!

Still, "The Roop" is correct that 80 students enrolled some other way (though hopefully not by lowering standards) would achieve the same benefit without the extra costs.

Football is a mixed blessing.  Eastern Michigan would (IMO) be MUCH better off if they dropped it.  With the Michigan Wolverines casting a HUGE shadow from just 8 miles away, they are never going to be more than intermittently decent.  It is a HUGE drain on the athletic department (and, therefore, on the university).  They were recently caught in an 'attendance inflation' scandal (often MORE than 100% inflated).  Since their REAL attendance is less than 8,000 per game (and I've attended games where there were fewer fans than the average IWU game from 40 years ago), they are going to get kicked out of d1 anyway - guys, cut your losses!  [The downside is that I'm pretty sure the Mid-American Conference requires football.]

[Pat Coleman]

Here's details on a couple of recently started programs, from a story in the Stagg Bowl game program.

Mary Hardin-Baylor, in Belton, Texas, was a women's school for more than 100 years before going co-ed in 1971. "Our enrollment was predominantly female, so we wanted to create an increased male base," Bawcom says. "We also wanted to change the social environment on campus on weekends, especially in the fall semester, with the game, the pep rallies and the rest of the experience."

"They felt like they needed a venue that would bring the students together," Mary Hardin-Baylor coach Pete Fredenburg adds. "It didn't materialize early but it has since, and that has to make the decision-makers pleased. Those factors and just to get the university some awareness in the public of things (aside from football) that were going on here."

The recruiting goals were modest. With an initial outlay of $1 million, the school felt it needed 65 incoming freshmen in the initial class in order to accommodate the budget. Instead, 200 new students arrived. "Not only did we have ourselves covered, but we could begin a junior varsity team," Bawcom says.

The success stories are not lost on other startup programs. LaGrange College, about 60 miles southwest of Atlanta, has had coach Todd Mooney in place since the beginning of March and takes the field in 2006. Mooney knows what other schools have accomplished but isn't ready to say it will be able to repeat the success of CNU or UMHB. "It certainly shows you that you can do things in a relatively quick manner. We want to be competitive and win as soon as we can. But we need to be mindful that this is an academic institution and want to bring in kids that are going to be a positive influence, both in the school and community."

His school announced an enrollment of 1,046 students for the fall semester of 2005, with plans to approach 1,200 by 2008. Mooney expects to have between 100 and 110 players when camp opens next August. But it's not only about bringing in warm bodies. "As new as we are and with the resources they're putting into this, the last thing we want to do is bring some kids on campus that cause us some black eyes real quick," says Mooney. "We're really looking into the character of the kids we recruit."

[Mr. Ypsi]

Gotcha - and I might agree if EMU was d3!

It might well be a viable strategy for struggling-for-males d3 schools.

[Gregory Sager]

It might well be a viable strategy for struggling-for-males d3 schools.

Struggling-for-males D3 schools = just about every coed D3 school, Chuck. The gender imbalance in American colleges and universities is reaching crisis proportions in the view of those who consider something within the ballpark of 50/50 to be indicative of healthy campus life.

The female/male ratio at the school where you teach is 60/40 and your alma mater's is 57/43, and my alma mater's is 62/38. And those are considered to be well-balanced numbers by current standards. Clarke's current female/male ratio is 71/29. That's a great ratio if you're a 19-year-old Clarke male looking to get a date, but it's almost certainly not a ratio of which Clarke's administrators approve.

Clarke, like Mary Hardin-Baylor, used to be a women's school (Clarke went coed in 1979), which means that the school's admissions office is fighting history and local perception as well as the current gender imbalance trends in higher education. A football team could be just the ticket to bring an infusion of testosterone onto that campus.

[Ralph Turner]

Greg, where is your source for male/female attendance ratios?  I would love to bookmark that.

As for UMHB, football definitely changed to image of "used to be an all-girl college".  They have actually continued to grow with very good success on the I-35 corridor.

Concordia-Austin is looking to add football when they move to another campus.  The (Roger) Staubach Group is assisting with that re-location from some very expensive landlocked real estate to a suburban venue.  I understand that it will help CUA's male:female ratio as well.

As for Clarke, they look like they need a football team badly, for many reasons.

[Gregory Sager]

I get most of the school-specific stats I cite (especially in the areas of finances and enrollment) thru the online version of Peterson's Guide, which is at www.petersons.com

[Greek Tragedy]

Clarke's current female/male ratio is 71/29. That's a great ratio if you're a 19-year-old Clarke male looking to get a date, but it's almost certainly not a ratio of which Clarke's administrators approve.

I'm going back to school...to Clarke.  And since I still get carded at Walmart, and other various stores, to buy rated R movies, that qualifies me as at least looking like I'm 19.  I walk into a liquor store and I get carded before I even get in line. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Clarke's current female/male ratio is 71/29. That's a great ratio if you're a 19-year-old Clarke male looking to get a date, but it's almost certainly not a ratio of which Clarke's administrators approve.

I'm going back to school...to Clarke.  And since I still get carded at Walmart, and other various stores, to buy rated R movies, that qualifies me as at least looking like I'm 19.  I walk into a liquor store and I get carded before I even get in line. 

Are you sure they're not stopping you because you appear blatantly drunk already?  I mean there could just be something wierd about the way you walk.

[cwm1276]

For Rockford, football had 100 players its first year it deemed to drop a little since but still around 80+.  I graduated the year before football started, also while the Basketball teams sucked and the soccer teams were good.  Hardly anyone went to basketball games or the soccer games, but football draws 700+ per game. Not a huge number but many of them are alumni or parents paying to get into the game, while the other sports have nearly dropped any admission cost.
I would expect simlar for Clarke, Rockford even started for 2 years playing at High Schools 2-5 miles from campus.

[Ralph Turner]

For Rockford, football had 100 players its first year it deemed to drop a little since but still around 80+.  I graduated the year before football started, also while the Basketball teams sucked and the soccer teams were good.  Hardly anyone went to basketball games or the soccer games, but football draws 700+ per game. Not a huge number but many of them are alumni or parents paying to get into the game, while the other sports have nearly dropped any admission cost.
I would expect simlar for Clarke, Rockford even started for 2 years playing at High Schools 2-5 miles from campus.

Yes and alums come back to the campus to be with friends and enjoy the wonderful fellowship.  You get a chance to catch up on a lot memories during a game.

That is a sense of community that pays for itself.

[diehardfan]

Clarke's current female/male ratio is 71/29. That's a great ratio if you're a 19-year-old Clarke male looking to get a date, but it's almost certainly not a ratio of which Clarke's administrators approve.

I'm going back to school...to Clarke.  And since I still get carded at Walmart, and other various stores, to buy rated R movies, that qualifies me as at least looking like I'm 19.  I walk into a liquor store and I get carded before I even get in line. 

Are you sure they're not stopping you because you appear blatantly drunk already?  I mean there could just be something wierd about the way you walk.

Ha, Ha, and Ha.... nicely done gentlemen.

Wheaton keeps it's admissions ratio at 51/49 either way, and no higher. In other words, it's a lot easier to get in if you are a guy. I think they do that so the maximum number of people can get paired off. 

Obviously it didn't work for me. 8)

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

In other words, it's a lot easier to get in if you are a guy. I think they do that so the maximum number of people can get paired off.

Obviously it didn't work for me.

I think you answered your own question there, April.  Who wants a Wheaton guy when they are obviously not up to the standards of Wheaton women?

[diehardfan]

In other words, it's a lot easier to get in if you are a guy. I think they do that so the maximum number of people can get paired off.

Obviously it didn't work for me.

I think you answered your own question there, April.  Who wants a Wheaton guy when they are obviously not up to the standards of Wheaton women?

There are other standards for what makes a good husband besides GPA and SAT score

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

In other words, it's a lot easier to get in if you are a guy. I think they do that so the maximum number of people can get paired off.

Obviously it didn't work for me.

I think you answered your own question there, April.  Who wants a Wheaton guy when they are obviously not up to the standards of Wheaton women?

There are other standards for what makes a good husband besides GPA and SAT score

Are you implying that those are the only things Wheaton looks for in an applicant?  I would assume that your admissions office would have a lot to say about potential students being well rounded and versed in many facets of life, leading to a cultural community where all can learn from the diverse experiences of others.

You know, or some other PC crap of the like.

[Mr. Ypsi]

You guys have made some excellent arguments for football at d3 schools.

Eastern Michigan (alas) is not d3 - football here is an expensive travesty.  While continuing to throw away millions each year in football, they are laying off faculty (and because of the inherent imbalance caused by football, title 9 compliance 'required' them to shut down the men's soccer team).

Greg, 'the school where you teach' may need to be changed to 'the school where you taught' - while nothing is finalized yet, it appears that I am being 'downsized' after 32 years of loyalty.  Meanwhile, they flush away millions on a football program that sometimes draws less than 2,000 fans.  Even their HONEST accounting of less than 8,000 per game includes MORE than half which are freebies - they SELL less than 3,000 tickets a game, sometimes far less.

If I sound bitter, it is because I am.  Good school, but an administration I can't properly describe without being booted from d3sports.com!