New England Soccer Discussion

[blooter442]

Regarding your 2nd point, I couldn't have said it better, Mr. Right.

I think part of the reason for the lack of physicality is the type of players that Gabe recruits. Gabe has always had a soft spot (no pun intended) for the smaller, creative players. Players that remind him of himself (Gabe lead Wheaton to a final 4 appearance as a 5'6 150lb midfielder). Obviously, he is recruiting to put his team in the best position to succeed, but I suspect his bias towards the smaller, craftier players leads to him overlooking some of the more physical, less talented individuals. Coven was the opposite - he valued physicality and size a lot, and I suspect the Flahive and Hernandez types you allude to above were remnants of Coven's recruiting and predilections.

Gabe is a smart guy, and a great coach. I know he is seeing the deficiencies that what we are, so hopefully that leads to an adjustment in his recruiting principles.

The irony of this is that, after losing three times in a row to NESCACs in 2012 and 2013, Brandeis started having success against NESCACs and other physical sides because of players like Hernandez/Flahive/Ocel/etc. who started in the 2014-15 season. That in mind, you'd think that — given their previous struggles in those games — they would have realized that (given the newfound success in those games) players like that are necessary.

I have previously opined that the midfield looks a bit light and lacks a destroyer. I do like Panson as a player but I think he needs to get stuck in more. He seems a bit hesitant to go into challenges. He is just a freshman so perhaps still adjusting but I think he could put himself about more. Regardless, there is very clearly an arms race occurring, and given the parity even at the top of D3 soccer (there's no team like Barcelona 09-11 who is tiny but that much better than everyone else) physicality can win the day more often than not.

[Mr.Right]

Agreed....+k...recruiting plays a huge part in all this and you are correct as it seems Brandeis has a ton of the same type of skilled players but not really tough kids so as long as he starts mixing it up a bit in the future Brandeis will return to its dominant ways. The only thing that surprises me about this at least in regards to recruiting is that Brandeis went thru all this before in 2010/2011/2012 when they realized they needed to get more physical to match up with Nescac teams. They changed and started bringin in a mix of kids SO I would have thought the lesson had already been learned but IDK maybe Margolis misjudged the # of players on his returning roster that were tough kids....

[paclassic89]

Top 15 regional ranking if the committee used an RPI system

NEW-ENGLAND REGION (PACLASSIC89 RPI) RANKINGS
Rank  School                RPI
1       Conn College       .697   
2       Tufts                   .682
3       Roger Williams     .649
4       Amherst              .644
5       St. Joseph's         .635
6       Brandeis              .632
7       Endicott               .626
8       Salve Regina        .610
9       Springfield           .605
10     Middlebury          .601
11     Babson                .599
12     Eastern Conn St.  .593
13     Gordon                .593
14     Hamilton              .584
15     Williams               .579

[Mr.Right]

Top 15 regional ranking if the committee used an RPI system

NEW-ENGLAND REGION (PACLASSIC89 RPI) RANKINGS
Rank  School                RPI
1       Conn College       .697   
2       Tufts                   .682
3       Roger Williams     .649
4       Amherst              .644
5       St. Joseph's         .635
6       Brandeis              .632
7       Endicott               .626
8       Salve Regina        .610
9       Springfield           .605
10     Middlebury          .601
11     Babson                .599
12     Eastern Conn St.  .593
13     Gordon                .593
14     Hamilton              .584
15     Williams               .579

NIce....appreciate it...+k

[Mr.Right]

Endicott and Rochester 0-0 at the Half. This would be a massive result if Endicott could sneak a Goal but even a Draw with Endicott's SOS which will certainly rise after this game would be a solid result as well. Endicott GK Jack Bacon has not been playing the past few games as he last played the 1st Half at Wentworth and am curious if he got injured or if Calabrese sacked him after giving up a possibly a soft goal to Wentworth. Probably the latter since he came out at halftime and has not played since.

[OldNed]

So much for my concerns about St. Joe's offense.  13-0 vs. Lasell, admittedly not a very good team.  The last 3 games have been 10-0, 4-0, and 13-0.

I've heard Coach Dubois is getting fed up with the rankings committee, as no matter how many games St. Joe's wins, their low SOS means a lower ranking.  Maybe these offense onslaughts are a pointed dig at the rankings committee.

[Off Pitch]

So much for my concerns about St. Joe's offense.  13-0 vs. Lasell, admittedly not a very good team.  The last 3 games have been 10-0, 4-0, and 13-0.

I've heard Coach Dubois is getting fed up with the rankings committee, as no matter how many games St. Joe's wins, their low SOS means a lower ranking.  Maybe these offense onslaughts are a pointed dig at the rankings committee.

Yes, running up the score against really bad teams is always impressive.  And getting goals from starters late in the game with a 10 goal lead is a lot more fun than actually scheduling better competition.  I'm sure the committee will be inspired to reward this.  Kudos to Coach Dubois.

[OldNed]

So much for my concerns about St. Joe's offense.  13-0 vs. Lasell, admittedly not a very good team.  The last 3 games have been 10-0, 4-0, and 13-0.

I've heard Coach Dubois is getting fed up with the rankings committee, as no matter how many games St. Joe's wins, their low SOS means a lower ranking.  Maybe these offense onslaughts are a pointed dig at the rankings committee.

Yes, running up the score against really bad teams is always impressive.  And getting goals from starters late in the game with a 10 goal lead is a lot more fun than actually scheduling better competition.  I'm sure the committee will be inspired to reward this.  Kudos to Coach Dubois.

So Dubois did exactly what the committee told him to do - he scheduled better teams this year.  Gordon, Endicott, Bowdoin, and Salem State (NCAA team last year and until a recent loss and a tie were leading their conference this year).  How much good has that done? Not much at all, in my opinion, if you go by the first NCAA regional rankings.

I suppose he could replace all non-conference games with better teams, but that would only be 2 additional games (Husson and Southern Maine), and those are old local rivalries that perhaps St. Joe's doesn't want to do away with completely.  The real killer to the SOS is the weak GNAC and there's not a bloody thing that Dubois can do about that. 

As for your comment about goals from starters late in the game, that just isn't true.  The last goal scored by a starter was at the 62:08 mark.  I get your point about not piling on, and I actually agree with that.

[blooter442]

Have to agree with Ned here. Aside from moving to a different conference there really isn't a whole lot more that Dubois can do — although I do think his scheduling this year has helped SJC into the USC top 25 for most of this year (versus last year when they were ranked 25 in the final but not in any others IIRC) even if not having the impact in the NCAA RRs like he'd hope for. I can understand his frustration.

[Off Pitch]

Have to agree with Ned here. Aside from moving to a different conference there really isn't a whole lot more that Dubois can do — although I do think his scheduling this year has helped SJC into the USC top 25 for most of this year (versus last year when they were ranked 25 in the final but not in any others IIRC) even if not having the impact in the NCAA RRs like he'd hope for. I can understand his frustration.

I also understand the frustration.  I simply think that frustration is not sufficient justification for running up the score on hapless opponents as Ned suggests is the case with Dubois.

[blooter442]

I also understand the frustration.  I simply think that frustration is not sufficient justification for running up the score on hapless opponents as Ned suggests is the case with Dubois.

Also don't disagree with that. Not a whole lot to be gained from a blowout.

[Off Pitch]

I've dusted off the old spreadsheet and have updated results through today's games.  Here is what it suggests the regional rankings for New England will be Wednesday:

1.   Tufts
2.   Conn
3.   Amherst
4.   St. Joes
5.   Babson
6.   Middlebury
7.   Brandeis
8.   Roger Williams
9.   Springfield
10. Bowdoin
11. Williams
12  Endicott

13. WPI
14. Gordon
15. EConnST

[PaulNewman]

I shouldn't comment because I get frustrated every year by the rankings (and that's not counting the 2-3 years it took me to kind of understand them).  What I disagreed with in Ned's post is the idea of the coach running up the score to teach the cmte some kind of lesson (although perhaps that was jest).  I'm sure the coach knows how the rankings work so he has no reason to be "fed up,"  as the cmte doesn't do that much other than plug in the inputs that they are saddled with....in other words, these cmtes might wish they could place teams differently on occasion but can't.  The other thing is that the better schedule may indeed help with St Joe's ranking this coming week and thereafter because RvR comes in the picture.  Now there's no guarantee with that, as teams you thought might tend to get regionally ranked might not in a particular year or might not still be ranked for the critical final ranking (which is why some of us clamor for the "once ranked, always ranked" standard).  So St Joe's might end up with as many as 3 ranked wins, as Bowdoin no doubt will come in (but won't count for this coming week) and then Endicott and Gordon.  I don't see both of the latter ending up ranked, but St Joe's can hope that Endicott will remain.  AND, although not equivalent with what most think should be St. Joe's ranking, the Monks DID get ranked in the first week this year whereas last year they didn't crack the rankings at all until week 4.

[OldNed]

I shouldn't comment because I get frustrated every year by the rankings (and that's not counting the 2-3 years it took me to kind of understand them).  What I disagreed with in Ned's post is the idea of the coach running up the score to teach the cmte some kind of lesson (although perhaps that was jest).  I'm sure the coach knows how the rankings work so he has no reason to be "fed up,"  as the cmte doesn't do that much other than plug in the inputs that they are saddled with....in other words, these cmtes might wish they could place teams differently on occasion but can't.  The other thing is that the better schedule may indeed help with St Joe's ranking this coming week and thereafter because RvR comes in the picture.  Now there's no guarantee with that, as teams you thought might tend to get regionally ranked might not in a particular year or might not still be ranked for the critical final ranking (which is why some of us clamor for the "once ranked, always ranked" standard).  So St Joe's might end up with as many as 3 ranked wins, as Bowdoin no doubt will come in (but won't count for this coming week) and then Endicott and Gordon.  I don't see both of the latter ending up ranked, but St Joe's can hope that Endicott will remain.  AND, although not equivalent with what most think should be St. Joe's ranking, the Monks DID get ranked in the first week this year whereas last year they didn't crack the rankings at all until week 4.

Let me be clear - I have no knowledge that Coach Dubois purposefully ran up the score on Lasell.  Any insinuation thereof on my part is complete and total speculation.  I should have worded things differently, or perhaps not mentioned anything along these lines whatsoever, and for that I apologize.

The only thing I know to be true is that Coach Dubois has been frustrated with the way the ranking committee ranks his team.  End of comment.

And thank you, PaulNewman, for being the voice of reason here regarding this subject.  You're absolutely right that St. Joe's didn't get ranked last year until the very end of the rankings, so perhaps the schedule this year actually HAS had an effect on the ranking committee.

[Christan Shirk]

I'm sure the coach knows how the rankings work . . .

Not specific to St. Joseph's coach, but merely in general, I would not assume all coaches do fully understand how the rankings/at-large selections work.  Over the years, D3soccer.com has received a number of e-mails from coaches or assistants either questioning or asking something about the regional rankings/at-large selections or commenting that the information on the website was helpful for understanding the process and having realistic expectations.  And not just from coaches of little-known, small-time programs.