FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OCguy]

Player graduation rate at Chapman is very very high. Not sure of the actual statistic but its got to be in the high 90's.

[olddog]

i gotta ask this...soooooo A high acceptance rate equals winning? lets just take the top 25 out of this equation, ok what about the rest of the division? Thats what 224 programs out there that the great majority never reach the top 25 or even close, is that a acceptance rate issue? Or is it a ideal of a program that has a seriousness to its intentions? Why is it a certain set of programs swirling in the top 25 universe most of the time? Whitewater was a dominate name, the last two seasons, not so much so what changed? I would assume the same acceptance rates.
So the old acceptance rates excuse does not fit, maybe it's recruiting? Maybe it's targeted recruiting rather then a Ya'll come play football recruiting scheme that hopes players with talent come. Maybe it's an attitude that as a program we win our games and don't accept loss rather than well go out and have a good experience and if you loose then well, here's your participation trophy it's ok, your a good tryer.
This is why I had suggested for the Oxy program to get out of the SCIAC universe, they have an opportunity, a reset, break the SCIAC mold and go big, that is the only way otherwise just pick your mediocre to lower then mediocre self up and be the bottom half of the conference schedule.
But lets talk about UMHB, my senior child is there right now, and from what I experience there is a seriousness on campus, not just fooltball but academically as well, I would not classify it as a football mill (if there is such a thing in DIII) So if your accepted you still have to have the grades, believe me there are no football subs (students who take test for players and such)
So to say acceptance rates make the program successful is a cop out as I see it. Again, perhaps it is a problem not of acceptance, but recruitment. Maybe? Can't draw players with talent then your not going to be as successful?

Cru Fan,

All due respect, I think if you understood the SCIAC school, how liberal most campus are and how little they are committed to athletics, you would be shocked, teams are as good as they are. Your visitor lockers are better than any home lockers in the conference. SCIAC schools would not put a TV's in their locker because they would have to pay the 50 bucks for a cable bill. Heck UR just got rid of the tube TV in their public gym. Pomona has a big Oak root in the west end zone. Jr High stadiums in Texas are better than La Verne.
MHB is able to recruit kids 1-AA are interested in due to their facilities are better the Poly in CA.

[olddog]

Player graduation rate at Chapman is very very high. Not sure of the actual statistic but its got to be in the high 90's.

I can verify it is extremely high too. I think Coach Owen told me a couple kids max did not graduate since he has been there. It would be stupid not to after spending all that money.

[OCguy]

"Maybe It's targeted recruiting rather then a Ya'll come play football recruiting scheme that hopes players with talent come" - This is how the SCIAC has to recruit because 65+% of the applicants won't even get in. We have a hard time targeting any student because too many times you find out that the C- he got in Math his JR year of high school makes it impossible to get in or he doesn't get the scholarship for having great academics and now can't afford it.

"Visitor lockers are better than any home lockers in the conference"  - This is true but some schools like CLU, CU and UofR are slowing evolving. 

[smedindy]

On a separate note, making the distinction that Chapman students and other SCIAC students don't work hard or are not humble enough to appreciate their position is absurd. Many of the SCIAC grads that i have met understand that their education was a blessing and they haven't taken any of it for granted.

that's not what I meant at all. There are some who think they're better than most of the students at their schools - usually not athletes and they usually don't last.

[smedindy]

Having high admissions standards and being a liberal campus does not mean poor football or poor athletics. Again.

What I see, anecdotally, are climbing admission rates - I think because of self-weeding by potential students.

[OxyBob]

Pomona has a big Oak root in the west end zone.

Best place to sit at Pomona for a game is in a camp chair beyond the end zone, shaded by that tree, eating a picnic lunch.

OxyBob

[OCguy]

Pomona has a great little field. Very personal setting for a game. No track around the field either which i think is a big plus.

[olddog]

"Maybe It's targeted recruiting rather then a Ya'll come play football recruiting scheme that hopes players with talent come" - This is how the SCIAC has to recruit because 65+% of the applicants won't even get in. We have a hard time targeting any student because too many times you find out that the C- he got in Math his JR year of high school makes it impossible to get in or he doesn't get the scholarship for having great academics and now can't afford it.

"Visitor lockers are better than any home lockers in the conference"  - This is true but some schools like CLU, CU and UofR are slowing evolving.

There are plans to improve the UR athletics complex and go two stories, but and very big one...no funds... Heck they just go AC that works in the men football locker room last season. The program that brings in 50+ males a year to the school.

[Oxy1995]

The college game, at all levels, is a coaches game.  The better teams have better coaches with a better plan and the ability to execute their plan.  Plan = organization, staff, recruiting, training, motivation, game-planning.

Good coaches seldom align themselves with places where the administrative support is lacking.

Oxy is a text book example, once DW was run out, you see how much influence the coach, or the lack of the right one, has on the fate of a football team.

You are so right about what happened one Widolff's was run out. I spent two years as a GA at Oxy and recruiting was very difficult. There was very little wiggle room with admissions. Those kids on the field got in not based on football, but on their academics. Getting an Andy Collins was a rare feat. When I played 4 out of the 5 starting o linemen were 230 pounds.

[Ron Boerger]

Having high admissions standards and being a liberal campus does not mean poor football or poor athletics. Again.

What I see, anecdotally, are climbing admission rates - I think because of self-weeding by potential students.

Re "having high admission standards ... does not mean poor football" - that may be true, but it is much harder because the pool of qualified student-athletes (just as the pool of qualified students) gets smaller as standards increase.   The schools in the last regular season D3football top ten have an average SAT of 1535, an average ACT of 23, and average 83% of their students from the top half of their high school classes (courtesy of http://colleges.startclass.com/).   Compare that with, say, Berry (1705/26/91%).

[OCguy]

^what this guy said.

[D O.C.]

Best place to sit at Pomona for a game is in a camp chair beyond the end zone, shaded by that tree, eating a picnic lunch.

One year PC had the money and an opportunity to see both Pomona & Claremont by walking that 100 yards from one stadium to the other and then OXY at night.

That's where some of us LINFIELD guys found him - under the tree. Comes in handy in September.

[smedindy]

Having high admissions standards and being a liberal campus does not mean poor football or poor athletics. Again.

What I see, anecdotally, are climbing admission rates - I think because of self-weeding by potential students.

Re "having high admission standards ... does not mean poor football" - that may be true, but it is much harder because the pool of qualified student-athletes (just as the pool of qualified students) gets smaller as standards increase.   The schools in the last regular season D3football top ten have an average SAT of 1535, an average ACT of 23, and average 83% of their students from the top half of their high school classes (courtesy of http://colleges.startclass.com/).   Compare that with, say, Berry (1705/26/91%).

Berry seems to be doing alright for themselves, though! So does Case Western and Johns Hopkins.

Hopkins has an 11.4% acceptance rate, and are 80-12 this decade.

That's a big counter example there !

[smedindy]

The SCIAC has the second lowest admissions rate (behind the NEWMAC - thanks MIT), the fifth highest ACT (behind the LL, SAA, CC, and MWC) and the third highest SAT (behind the LL and MWC)

Most of that low rank is the 1-2 punch of CMS and Pomoma-Pitzer, though.

But....

Despite CMS and PP pulling things up, five playoff teams still had a lower acceptance rate than the 'average' SCIAC school (Hopkins, W&L, CWRU, RPI, and W&J)


Six playoff schools had higher ACT scores (Hopkins, W&L, Case, RPI, Wheaton, Illinois Wesleyan). Those same six had higher SAT scores as well.

Then there's the idea of acceptance rates and test scores being hallmarks of education, anyway. Sometimes there's a disconnect between acceptance rate and the scores.