FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[rbaikie]

I agree that Oxy should play a tougher non  league schedule when they are able (contractual constraints, etc.), but if by chance they were to go all the way and win the Stagg Bowl, would you consider their national championship any less worthwhile because of their strength of schedule?

Every coach and administration has their own ideas about what they want to build thier program. Sometimes, it is just playing the games to get everybody experience so that the team matures.

If USC goes undefeated this year, I don't think too many people will complain that it isn't a great accomplishment because they would have beaten such non -conference "powers" as Hawaii, Arkansas, and Fresno State - all teams that might be good - just not at USC's level - so it would be the same with Linfield or any other team - a winning seaon, an undefeated season, a conference championship, a national championship - all of these are good accomplishments.

I know it might mean more to everybody if your 9, 10, or more wins came against ranked teams or even teams with winning records, but wins are wins.  When people look back at winning streaks and other accomplishments, most times they don't say yes they won 25 games in a row, but 10 of those games were against teams with losing records....

[xfactor82]

Big difference in getting a home game and not having to travel to play the #1 seed. Redlands has four playoff appearances in the last fourteen years on the road against the big dogs.

1990  #1 Central 20  Redlands 14
1992  #1 UW-Lacrosse 47 Redlands 26 (Lacrosse was National Champs that year)
2002  #1 St. Johns 31  Redlands  23
2003  #1 Linfield    31  Redlands  23

If the same happened to Oxy last year it would have been one and done at Linfield. I was happy for Oxy last year but it is time for them to play somebody.

I suspect in each of those years Redlands had at least one loss to a non-conference opponent.  By playing a tough schedule, they put the selection committee in a position to pit them against the #1 seed each year.  One wonders if their playoff record would be different had they gone undefeated in those years after playing an easier schedule, essentially preventing the committee from putting them against the #1 seed in the first round.

Oxy may get some **** for their scheduling over the past few years, but perhaps there is a good reason for it -- SCIAC teams with non-conference losses aren't treated fairly by the selection committee (just think of the 2001 Oxy team that opened the season with a loss to Menlo then went undefeated the remainder of the season and still didn't get a playoff spot).

[RFB]

The 1992 Redlands team lone loss was to a very good DII Hayward State team 21-8.

Xfactor, you make some good points about playoff selection. I would just like to see Oxy play some better teams.

[LigerLover]

great points on both sides....

I think given OXY's  pre-season ranking of #8 and now currently #6 that they had nothing to gain by playing tough non-confrence teams, If they lose their ranking will drop. I think that if they go undefeated and other teams falter they will get an easier road to the championship.... PS lets say Linfield was #1 and OXY was # 2 I think they should be put into different brackets..any chance of this happening?

[twoducks]

CawCdad, yea Cal Lu does like to throw the ball, although as stated before they have 2 backs who compliment each other very well, one tough and straight ahead the other shifty and quick, I kinda would bet the Danny Jones is gonna want to throw some balls up as he is from that area and was considering going to Menlo before heading to Cal Lu so I think he will want to make a good showing, but the game plan will dictate things to some degree and the success of it.  Also I see Menlo has given up about 1200 yards rushing so far this year and Squires (coach) may want to see how that will work out, Menlo has played a tuff schedule this year and with Lindfield and Whitworth on the near future they better get it together.  Last year aganist Cal Lu their db's were small but played pretty well, their LB's were bad though but that was last year.

[wildcat11]

PS lets say Linfield was #1 and OXY was # 2 I think they should be put into different brackets..any chance of this happening?

That's not going to happen.

Just two points about the Oxy cup cake schedule.

1) Oxy could wind up being a victim of their own success.  If Oxy is able to stay as strong I think they'll find it more difficult to schedule teams like Colorado College and Lewis & Clark (if they are even around anymore after the year).  Oxy could wind up in a situation where they can only find games with the likes of a Azusa Pacific, Linfield, etc.

2) In terms of this year...let's say that Oxy, Linfield, SJU, and UW-Whitewater all go undefeated in the regular season.  I think it would be safe to say the Linfield would be the top sead in the west but since SJU and UW-Whitewater both play tougher schedules you could see Oxy with a 4 seed and one the road after the first round.

While that worked out last year, the second round game could either be up at Linfield or out to SJU or Whitewater in 30 degree weather. 

Granted....A LOT of football is left and all four of these teams could very well get dinged but right now Oxy could very well not even be the #2 seed in the west.  Why?  They haven't played any one worth a darn.

[CarloRossiLep]

I'm of the opinion that if a team isn't pushed to the edge they won't know what they're made out of or how to keep their composure.  Sure, Whittier was close, but was that due to Whittier being a good team or Whittier coming out super pumped and Oxy kind of over looking them. I'll say the latter. USC can schedule weak opponents and make up for it later because of their huge advantage in talent over everybody else.  Oxy's good.  NOT THAT GOOD!!!

ULV smoked CMS and they didn't even play close to their potential.  They came out really flat.  Must have been looking forward to this weeks test against Redlands.  I know they're going to be pumped for them.  Last year we let it slip through our fingers but it was a good lesson (even though the same exact thing happened at CalLu the next week) that will be remembered for this year.  I'm sure Dean Mozelle was out in all his glory this week.  The Leps run D is awesome so I don't expect Redlands to get much there.  So once they become one dimensional ULV's sick LB's and DE's are going to be on that QB like Boomer on a drunk girl.
Last week the O complimented the pass game by rushing for 200.  The O-line is clicking and the RB's are hitting the seams.

ULV 43
Redlands 28

P.S.
Wildcat11
Nice points on the correlation between non-conference schedules and post season seeding.

[OxyFan21]

Granted, I don't know how far in advance schedules are actually made, but I know that Oxy has been playing Colorado College for a long time, at least since the mid '90s.  As one of the few independents in the West Region, CC is playing CMS, Oxy UPS, L&C, and Menlo this year.  Up until recent years, Oxy was probably on par with those schools and more than likely have contractual agreements with them.  Well, L&C doesn't care about agreements.....but, that's another story.

I would love to see Oxy play the stronger NWC conference teams, but I don't know if that would be helpful for post season seeding purposes.  So far, at least in the last two years, this formula has worked will for them.  Of course, we don't know what their schedule is like next year, and beyond. 

In theory, playing a tough schedule would be great for us to have more to talk about here and other places, just not sure there is much purpose of playing a tough schedule if you can still be ranked #6 this year.  Remember, for most of the season last year, Oxy was under the radar until the end.

If the rest of the conference could step up the level of Oxy and Redlands, then this discussion would be dead.

One more thing, I don't know if Concordia-Moorhead chose to play the Tigers at the Fargo Dome.  I think that if they had their choice, they would have loved to play a SoCal team outside.  I don't know who made that decision last year, but it didn't seem to be giving the home team too much of an advantage.

[wildcat11]

Oxyfan21,

Being ranked and ranked high is great for the teams, fans, and school images.  It is really something to be proud of.  However,  when it comes for playoff seeding the rankings of d3football.com doesn't mean squat.  (The rankings could plant the seed in the committee members heads but I have no idea if that though carries any weight).

Maybe Pat could shed some light on this thought but if Linfield, SJU, and Oxy all go undefeated on the year, would SJU or Oxy hold the edge in higher regional seeding?  Maybe Oxy has the edge because of last year's run but SJU does play in a higher thought of conference in terms of competitiveness.

Regardless, the seeding process should be an interesting one.

[scandihoovian]

OxyFan-

You make several good points, and it is somewhat troubling to acknowledge that an easier schedule actually helps when it comes to playoff seedings.

I am sort of puzzled about how Oxy's recent success has elevated them in the eyes of some on this board to the status of longtime conference power.  As recently as 2002 the Tigers were 1-4 in conference play (and sub .500 in 1999 and 2000 as well). The Tigers have certainly fielded strong teams the last three years,  I guess I prefer to take a longer term view.

Redlands/LaVerne is definitely the game to watch this week.  Both teams seem to be coming on in the last few weeks.  The race for second place, if Oxy does indeed remain in first, could have playoff implications for LaVerne, Redlands, or Cal Lu if any one of them can run the table.

[redlandsfan]

Just for the record my Redlands team in 2002 was 5-0 in league, so we did not have a loss.....the only team who came close was Oxy, we rolled-up every other team!

[OxyFan21]

I certainly appreciate all of the good feedback from people in this room.  I definitely know that Oxy was not a power when I was there from '96-'00, but it is what it is.  They have been playing well for the past 2-3 years and I am happy for the school...

Like I have said before, I don't know if an easier schedule is good for seedings or not, but it's almost like the tune-up schedules that the majority of D-1 basketball schools play.  Good and bad, and arguments can be made for both. 

Because the SCIAC has the auto qualifier now, I don't think that they will upgrade their out-of-conference schedule all that much. 

I think the important thing is that the rest of the conference begin to match up well with the top teams and that we start to build ourselves within the SCIAC.

Too bad we can't really measure ourselves (financial limitations, etc) legitimately against the midwest (where I live now) and east coast teams until post-season.   

I am only one, of many.

[ChiTownOxyMoron]

I'm all for a change of schedule for OXY. In fact, I'd like to see some out of region action, say somewhere near Chicago. It'd be pretty sweet to see a game out here in the midwest. Hey oxyfan, if it ever happens (don't hold your breath) we'll have to do some major tailgating.

By the way, there is a benefit to playing weaker teams like CC and L&C. It was mentioned before that very often it gives younger players a chance to mature, but it also gives the team the experience of playing a road game a long way away from home. With games in either Oregon or Colorado, there is also the chance for bad weather, which can help come playoff time when a team has to travel halfway across the country and play in the snow. True you can get that with tougher teams, but there is always a greater risk of getting players injured in meaningless non-conference games.

[DawgHeaven]

New guy to the board.... My two cents.  If Oxy is not 8-1 last year they do not get a home game.  In 1999, Redlands goes 7-2 and does not make the playoffs.  They are just unbelievable and, if they are invited to the playoffs, they would have opened some eyes.  If they would have had last years Oxy schedule they would have made the playoffs.  What kind of message does that send to the players.  Lets play bad teams so that we can make the playoffs or we can do like Coach Maynard and schedule tough opponents to show the boys what it takes to be good.  Oxy, at least have some balls and schedule Azuza.

[Pat Coleman]

Because the SCIAC has the auto qualifier now, I don't think that they will upgrade their out-of-conference schedule all that much.

Actually, that's exactly why teams can upgrade their out of conference schedule. Without an automatic bid, SCIAC teams basically had to go 9-0 to get in. Now you can go 6-3 and get in if you win the conference games.

I am sure Oxy will be looking to replace L&C next year given the program may not exist, or might drop Oxy on short notice. It would be a good time to set up a series with someone like Willamette or Whitworth or Wartburg or ... even someone decent who doesn't start with W.