FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[coco]

You're in a fighting mood today, aren't you, OB?

Did someone switch your microbrew with Bud light?

[Pat Coleman]

[Scandi Places on Tee]

I am pretty sure we've been told such snobbery is the reason we fail to win national championships.

[/Scandi places on Tee]

[WC11 knocks it out of ball park] Naw...it's more of the lack of national championship level talent. [/WC11 knocks it out of ball park]

WC11-
You're welcome!

And thanks for the clarification, Bob and I were becoming increasingly sure that the real problem was all of the traveling...

Eh... truth be told only maybe 20 teams in all of DIII have championship talent. It is sad that the SCIAC doesn't have MORE talent. I think it is a relatively talented league. However, the league isn't really recognized that much in Southern California and needs to do a better job keeping the talent that is in SoCal. I don't know what the recruiting rules are for DIII (anymore) and I never knew what the rules are for the SCIAC. However, the lack of success recently (sans Team Collins, I mean Oxy), means that if it is possible, it might be time for the SCIAC to start caring about success in the playoffs. Just an idea. SoCal is incredibly rich in talent, SCIAC teams should be able to retain more of the talent on a consistent basis.
Back to the original point, there are very few teams who consistently have the talent necessary to make a run. If I could figure out how to build a team like that... with short term success and longevity, I would already be a Head Coach.... that or GM and Manager of the Yankees (Hank Steinbrenner can kiss my a$$).
Whoever figures out the formula to doing more than just winning the SCIAC every year... he'll be much beloved by all of us who want to see the SCIAC succeed.

This issue has been discussed many times before. The big problem is California has over 100 Junior College football programs. More than half of those reside in SoCal. How many jc programs are there in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pacific NW, or the East Coast?

How many PEOPLE are there in California compared to Wisconsin, Minnesota or the Pacific NW?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Good point, Pat!

Cali has a bit over 36 million residents by my latest Rand-McNally atlas; Minnesota, Oregon, Washington, and Wisconsin together have barely over 20 million.  Without trying to tally it up, I feel confident in saying that those four states together have MORE competing football programs than does the state with nearly double the population.

[snoop dawg]

I grew up in Pa. and have lived in Ca for 32 years.  I believe that the work ethic thing used to exist.  Academically, Ca is more competitive than any where else in the nation.  Mere numbers are the reason.  The Ca. college system(the UC system) is one of the most affordable in the nation and the quality of the education is very strong.  The competion to get into these schools is unbelievable because of supply and demand.  Oxy is an outstanding academic institution.  A kid needs approximatly the same grades to get into a UC school as Oxy.  That is an absurd fact.  Academically, the Ca. kids must have a strong work ethic to have choices for college.  

In the midwest, the population is much smaller, thus the supply and demand is not nearly the same.  I am not saying they dont study as hard, or are not as academically inclined however, the competion is not nearly the same.  So, kids out here must have a work ethic or they simply dont go to college.  I have to believe that that etihc spills ovet into the work place. With the cost of living being much greater out here than the midwest, the kids have to realize that they have to work their butts of just to get by.   Social pressures out here also play a factor in the motivation process.  Just my opinion.

While visiting Minn. this year and last,  differences in life styles and factors such as  the cost of living, life styles and other such factors are really apparent.  I am not saying one is better than the other.  I really believe that both could learn from the other.  

[RFB]

[Scandi Places on Tee]

I am pretty sure we've been told such snobbery is the reason we fail to win national championships.

[/Scandi places on Tee]

[WC11 knocks it out of ball park] Naw...it's more of the lack of national championship level talent. [/WC11 knocks it out of ball park]

WC11-
You're welcome!

And thanks for the clarification, Bob and I were becoming increasingly sure that the real problem was all of the traveling...

Eh... truth be told only maybe 20 teams in all of DIII have championship talent. It is sad that the SCIAC doesn't have MORE talent. I think it is a relatively talented league. However, the league isn't really recognized that much in Southern California and needs to do a better job keeping the talent that is in SoCal. I don't know what the recruiting rules are for DIII (anymore) and I never knew what the rules are for the SCIAC. However, the lack of success recently (sans Team Collins, I mean Oxy), means that if it is possible, it might be time for the SCIAC to start caring about success in the playoffs. Just an idea. SoCal is incredibly rich in talent, SCIAC teams should be able to retain more of the talent on a consistent basis.
Back to the original point, there are very few teams who consistently have the talent necessary to make a run. If I could figure out how to build a team like that... with short term success and longevity, I would already be a Head Coach.... that or GM and Manager of the Yankees (Hank Steinbrenner can kiss my a$$).
Whoever figures out the formula to doing more than just winning the SCIAC every year... he'll be much beloved by all of us who want to see the SCIAC succeed.

This issue has been discussed many times before. The big problem is California has over 100 Junior College football programs. More than half of those reside in SoCal. How many jc programs are there in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pacific NW, or the East Coast?

How many PEOPLE are there in California compared to Wisconsin, Minnesota or the Pacific NW?

That's a good point and I don't have a rebuttal for it. Still though, I know for a fact that JC football here in California hurts recruiting in the SCIAC.

[Mr. Ypsi]

[Scandi Places on Tee]

I am pretty sure we've been told such snobbery is the reason we fail to win national championships.

[/Scandi places on Tee]

[WC11 knocks it out of ball park] Naw...it's more of the lack of national championship level talent. [/WC11 knocks it out of ball park]

WC11-
You're welcome!

And thanks for the clarification, Bob and I were becoming increasingly sure that the real problem was all of the traveling...

Eh... truth be told only maybe 20 teams in all of DIII have championship talent. It is sad that the SCIAC doesn't have MORE talent. I think it is a relatively talented league. However, the league isn't really recognized that much in Southern California and needs to do a better job keeping the talent that is in SoCal. I don't know what the recruiting rules are for DIII (anymore) and I never knew what the rules are for the SCIAC. However, the lack of success recently (sans Team Collins, I mean Oxy), means that if it is possible, it might be time for the SCIAC to start caring about success in the playoffs. Just an idea. SoCal is incredibly rich in talent, SCIAC teams should be able to retain more of the talent on a consistent basis.
Back to the original point, there are very few teams who consistently have the talent necessary to make a run. If I could figure out how to build a team like that... with short term success and longevity, I would already be a Head Coach.... that or GM and Manager of the Yankees (Hank Steinbrenner can kiss my a$$).
Whoever figures out the formula to doing more than just winning the SCIAC every year... he'll be much beloved by all of us who want to see the SCIAC succeed.

This issue has been discussed many times before. The big problem is California has over 100 Junior College football programs. More than half of those reside in SoCal. How many jc programs are there in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pacific NW, or the East Coast?

How many PEOPLE are there in California compared to Wisconsin, Minnesota or the Pacific NW?

That's a good point and I don't have a rebuttal for it. Still though, I know for a fact that JC football here in California hurts recruiting in the SCIAC.

Of course - except probably LESS so proportionately than for many (most?) other conferences.

[Klopenhiemer]

The only evidence I have is that the high school that my boys went to has the third best GPA's in the state for university students and the grade point averages of the kids that were involved in extra ciricular activities were a full 1 point higher than kids that were not involved in any of the ECA's. 

Gobbledegook. You must work for the government.

Did you think that there may be a better work ethic in other areas of the country? 

Uh, no. That just sounds like Hawkeye State hubris to me.

Why did I interview multiple nation wide firms for jobs in CA, and they always told me they loved sending midwest kids to the west coast because of their work ethic.

Oh, geez, the Midwest work ethic. Another myth.

OxyBob

Hey OB do you have facts on this, or is this pure anecdotal?

My facts are that nation wide companies recruited myself and other colleges in my area hard due to the fact of our work ethic. 

Surf's up dude!

[Klopenhiemer]

I grew up in Pa. and have lived in Ca for 32 years.  I believe that the work ethic thing used to exist.  Academically, Ca is more competitive than any where else in the nation.  Mere numbers are the reason.  The Ca. college system(the UC system) is one of the most affordable in the nation and the quality of the education is very strong.  The competion to get into these schools is unbelievable because of supply and demand.  Oxy is an outstanding academic institution.  A kid needs approximatly the same grades to get into a UC school as Oxy.  That is an absurd fact.  Academically, the Ca. kids must have a strong work ethic to have choices for college.  

In the midwest, the population is much smaller, thus the supply and demand is not nearly the same.  I am not saying they dont study as hard, or are not as academically inclined however, the competion is not nearly the same.  So, kids out here must have a work ethic or they simply dont go to college.  I have to believe that that etihc spills ovet into the work place. With the cost of living being much greater out here than the midwest, the kids have to realize that they have to work their butts of just to get by.   Social pressures out here also play a factor in the motivation process.  Just my opinion.

While visiting Minn. this year and last,  differences in life styles and factors such as  the cost of living, life styles and other such factors are really apparent.  I am not saying one is better than the other.  I really believe that both could learn from the other.  

Come on Snoop you left to many doors open on this one.  Who cares how hard a kid has to work to get into a college.  Lets face the facts, no matter what their test scores or GPA are, there is a college out there who will accept them. 

The real test is what they do in the real world.  Who cares about lofty GPA's and lofty test scores.  If they can not make in the real world then who cares what they did in college. 

Do not try and shed the SoCal image of surfing, slacking, and drugs, just as we will not shed our image of corn, hard work, and Busch Light.  Like it or not, we both fit this sterotype's and we will live with this forever. 

Unless Al Gore's global warming thing kick's in. 

[doolittledog]

My family lived in California for 7 years in the 1960's and my parents still have many friends in the state.  Recently, the child of one of their friends moved his family to Austin, TX.  In California his elementary aged kids were in advanced placement classes and after their move to Texas they were placed in remedial classes.  The school district said they believed the children were gifted and would eventually do well in their new school district but they were so far behind their counterparts in Texas they needed to be put in the remedial class to help them catch up to Texas kids.  Their mother also was warned by the school superintent that her children were expected to attend school everyday after their mother told him in California if the children were tired it was ok for them to skip school. 

This mans mother had been a teacher in California as well.  She said that on nice days her attendance was horrible because the kids would skip school to go surfing.  Now, that could be a reflection of the lower level of California kids and the competition for the top level students could be fierce. 

There are talented kids in California and numbers wise there are many more of them in Cali than you would be able to find in Iowa.  That alone would make admissions difficult to places like Oxy or Pomona.  Or, maybe admission standards are higher at Oxy and other Cali schools because they have to be more selective to get worthy candidates out of Cali schools 

[DutchFan2004]

I grew up in Pa. and have lived in Ca for 32 years.  I believe that the work ethic thing used to exist.  Academically, Ca is more competitive than any where else in the nation.  Mere numbers are the reason.  The Ca. college system(the UC system) is one of the most affordable in the nation and the quality of the education is very strong.  The competion to get into these schools is unbelievable because of supply and demand.  Oxy is an outstanding academic institution.  A kid needs approximatly the same grades to get into a UC school as Oxy.  That is an absurd fact.  Academically, the Ca. kids must have a strong work ethic to have choices for college.  

In the midwest, the population is much smaller, thus the supply and demand is not nearly the same.  I am not saying they dont study as hard, or are not as academically inclined however, the competion is not nearly the same.  So, kids out here must have a work ethic or they simply dont go to college.  I have to believe that that etihc spills ovet into the work place. With the cost of living being much greater out here than the midwest, the kids have to realize that they have to work their butts of just to get by.   Social pressures out here also play a factor in the motivation process.  Just my opinion.

While visiting Minn. this year and last,  differences in life styles and factors such as  the cost of living, life styles and other such factors are really apparent.  I am not saying one is better than the other.  I really believe that both could learn from the other.  

The cost of living is higher out there that is a given fact.  The one thing you left out is the wage scale is much higher as well.  Those two things go hand in hand do they not.  I don't believe it is possible that without the wages the cost of living could not be supported. 

Also the 100 JC's is a numbers thing as well.  We have 9 here in Iowa I would be willing to bet that given the population differences between the states it is about a correct ratio.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

Oxy's incoming class of 2012 represents students from 46 states, the District of Columbia and 26 foreign countries.  Just under half are from California.  Other states with a big presence include Washington, Oregon, Hawaii, Illinois, New York and Massachusetts.

[DutchFan2004]

Did you think that there may be a better work ethic in other areas of the country? 

Uh, no. That just sounds like Hawkeye State hubris to me.

Why did I interview multiple nation wide firms for jobs in CA, and they always told me they loved sending midwest kids to the west coast because of their work ethic.

Oh, geez, the Midwest work ethic. Another myth.

Hey OB do you have facts on this, or is this pure anecdotal?

It's not up to me to prove something that doesn't exist in fact doesn't exist. That's up to you, Cowardly Lion -- "I do believe in the Midwest ethic, I do believe in the Midwest ethic, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do!"

Still though, I know for a fact that JC football here in California hurts recruiting in the SCIAC.

As you said in a previous post, we've debated this issue here before without resolution. Perhaps you're right, but what it eventually comes down to is admissions standards, and, let's face it, some of the D-III football factories aren't up to SCIAC snuff. I again checked the Princeton Review web site, and looked at the "Admissions Selectivity Rating" for each SCIAC school, about which the Princeton Review says:

This rating measures how competitive admissions are at the school. This rating is determined by several institutionally-reported factors, including: the class rank, average standardized test scores, and average high school GPA of entering freshmen; the percentage of students who hail from out-of-state; and the percentage of applicants accepted. By incorporating all these factors, our Admissions Selectivity Rating adjusts for "self-selecting" applicant pools ... This rating is given on a scale of 60-99.

Caltech 99
Pomona 99
Claremont 97
Mudd 97
Oxy 94
Pitzer 93
Redlands 88
La Verne 85
Whittier 84
Cal Lutheran 83

Others:

Central 79
Wesley 79
Mount Union 75
Mary Hardin-Baylor 73
UW-Whitewater 66 ("Is your body temperature 98.6° F ± 1° F? OK, you're in.")

It's always easier to recruit good football players when there's more slots open for the less academically inclined.

OxyBob

This is why Central lead the NCAA with the most accademic all americans with 11.  With such HIGH STANDARDS you would think that the SCIAC would have at least double or triple Central's numbers don't you.  According to those numbers your admission standards are so much higher that all the SCIAC schools should have more academic all americans shouldn't they.  Seems the work ethic thing may have a little legs with the stats you provided.  With better students you should have better GPA's should you not?

[janesvilleflash]

I'll admit the kids in Iowa are dumb, but the Wisconsin kids are good beer drinkers.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

With better students you should have better GPA's should you not?

Wow . . . where to begin . . . how to explain this simply . . . hmmm?

Let's see, there is the whole "curve" thing.
Academically more challenging schools are . . . how should I put it .  . . academically more challenging?
For example . . . a middle of the road Pomona student would probably be top of the class at Coe . . .
Sort of like putting a D1 starter on a D3 team . . . only we're talking brains instead of bulk.
Playing academically in the "olympic swimming pool" is more challenging that playing in the "tiny tot kiddie pool."

Of course, we'll have to excuse you as you could not possibly have known that some schools require actual reading, writing and thinking. There are no majors in "snowmobile repairs," "an idiot's guide to harvesting sweet corn," or "cattle slaughter."

Yes toto . . . here in Oz . . . aka SoCal . . . all a kid has to do is be admitted to school and it's all "A's" and milkshakes for four years.

For Christmas, if you ask nice, Santa might give you a clue.

[Fear the Poet]

/quote]



what a bunch of crap that it