FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Sabretooth Tiger]

Some general comments and full disclosure:

I'm an LA native with deep family ties in Iowa . . . spent a significant part of every summer growing up in Cedar Rapids and water skiing on Lake Delhi (near Manchester).  My parents are laid to rest at Cedar Memorial.  I will probably take my 9 year old son to Lake Delhi this year, spending a week on the lake with my cousins and their children and their children's children.  I love Iowa. OK, now that I've got my disclosures out, I can go back to my harping and trash talk as we try to kill time until fall.

1.  Wow, Iowa sweet corn production as dropped since the mid-60s!

2.  Goal Line Stand (may I call you GLS?):  Snooty?  Yup, I guess so.  "Elite" or "elitist" is probably a better word . . . I'm one of those pain in the ass kind of guys that will point out silly, unsupportable statements on a message board when the poster clearly does not realize that what he is saying is silly and unsupportable.  I try to live in a fact based, logic based world.  In other words, I'm a liberal and, to some, an elitist.

3.  Stealth:  If you don't like the conversation, feel free to avoid the board.  Better yet, tell Pat to shut down the MIAC conversations about fishing and beer.

4.  DutchFan:  You're making it way too easy.  Here's some stuff you can read:

http://www.oxy.edu/x6868.xml

5.  How many Goldwater and Fulbright scholars from Central this year?  Here's a hint . . . when the final Fulbright numbers become available, it will be another record year for the Tigers . . .

6.  You keep talking about the SCIAC as if were a monolithic unit, rather than an aggregate of unique, distinct institutions . . . all of which are apparently more selective in admissions that any IIAC member school . . . according to OxyBob . . . no wait, those aren't his statistics . . . the information comes from an independent source . . . he's quoting facts . . . he did "research" . . . go ahead, look it up.

7.  Just funnin' ya . . . keep putting them out there on the tee, we'll keep swingin' . . . we . . . the great body SCIAC . . . or at least me, OB and that viking guy from da Who.

[KCDutch]

Words have meanings.  Just admit your quote was false as your numbers show. 

I'll settle for being right 99.959042% of the time any day.

Oh, yeah, and another thing about corn: Government mandates for the use of corn to make ethanol is one of the main drivers of rampant inflation of worldwide food costs during the past year. Grocery bills are up everywhere in the US. The United Nations World Food Program reports that rising food prices have pushed 100 million people into hunger worldwide. So not only is Iowa corn used to make Americans fat and unhealthy, it's ironically also a cause of starvation.

OxyBob

OxyBob-
Food inflation is tied more to oil prices not ethanol.  Go back to the oil embargo days, and food inflation was actually higher than it is now.  Do you know anything about process of making ethanol?  Ethanol strips out the starch, but the by-product (w/ all the protein/nutrients) is fed to cattle/livestock.  So, we actually get double use out of the corn and not just a single use.  Also, I know of at least 1 plant which uses the steam in the process to heat a tank and raise tilapia.  Which comes mercury free unlike the fish off the coast of Cali.  

Just some food for thought.....

KCDutch

[RFB]

http://www.redlands.edu/x35934.xml?StoryType=Athletics


Not sure if his work ethic would have made the cut in Iowa.

[DutchFan2004]

Some general comments and full disclosure:

I'm an LA native with deep family ties in Iowa . . . spent a significant part of every summer growing up in Cedar Rapids and water skiing on Lake Delhi (near Manchester).  My parents are laid to rest at Cedar Memorial.  I will probably take my 9 year old son to Lake Delhi this year, spending a week on the lake with my cousins and their children and their children's children.  I love Iowa. OK, now that I've got my disclosures out, I can go back to my harping and trash talk as we try to kill time until fall.

1.  Wow, Iowa sweet corn production as dropped since the mid-60s!

2.  Goal Line Stand (may I call you GLS?):  Snooty?  Yup, I guess so.  "Elite" or "elitist" is probably a better word . . . I'm one of those pain in the ass kind of guys that will point out silly, unsupportable statements on a message board when the poster clearly does not realize that what he is saying is silly and unsupportable.  I try to live in a fact based, logic based world.  In other words, I'm a liberal and, to some, an elitist.

3.  Stealth:  If you don't like the conversation, feel free to avoid the board.  Better yet, tell Pat to shut down the MIAC conversations about fishing and beer.

4.  DutchFan:  You're making it way too easy.  Here's some stuff you can read:

http://www.oxy.edu/x6868.xml

5.  How many Goldwater and Fulbright scholars from Central this year?  Here's a hint . . . when the final Fulbright numbers become available, it will be another record year for the Tigers . . .

6.  You keep talking about the SCIAC as if were a monolithic unit, rather than an aggregate of unique, distinct institutions . . . all of which are apparently more selective in admissions that any IIAC member school . . . according to OxyBob . . . no wait, those aren't his statistics . . . the information comes from an independent source . . . he's quoting facts . . . he did "research" . . . go ahead, look it up.

7.  Just funnin' ya . . . keep putting them out there on the tee, we'll keep swingin' . . . we . . . the great body SCIAC . . . or at least me, OB and that viking guy from da Who.

Wow your link to the Water Polo team has so much to do with football.  No football players available to be academic all americans?     This all started with saying that the admissons standards are much higher in the SCIAC than in the rest of the country and that is why you can not compete on the narional stage.  That is why I have referred to you as a whole.  That is why I have pointed out that if the students have to be better students to get into your institutions they should be doing as well or better in the class room and producing academic all americans then.  Seems reasonable to me why don't you see it that way? 

On your point about Fulbright and Goldwater Scholars how many of them are on the football team?  If you can not be successful because of admissions policies then you should be successful putting out good scholars. 

[DutchFan2004]

http://www.redlands.edu/x35934.xml?StoryType=Athletics


Not sure if his work ethic would have made the cut in Iowa.

Congratulations to this young man.  He is indeed a credit to Redlands and the SCIAC.  There are no personal attacks at any individuals here.  I am happy for him to have success.  That is what we all want for our kids and alums.  As stated in my earlier post the claim that the standards are to tough for admission do not hold water IMHO.  You can get it done in the classroom and on the field.  That is my whole point. 

[EastCoastStag]

Words have meanings.  Just admit your quote was false as your numbers show. 

I'll settle for being right 99.959042% of the time any day.

Oh, yeah, and another thing about corn: Government mandates for the use of corn to make ethanol is one of the main drivers of rampant inflation of worldwide food costs during the past year. Grocery bills are up everywhere in the US. The United Nations World Food Program reports that rising food prices have pushed 100 million people into hunger worldwide. So not only is Iowa corn used to make Americans fat and unhealthy, it's ironically also a cause of starvation.

OxyBob

Spot on.. there is an interesting article/study about this that I was reading recently.. that is when they let me out of the cube (as rare as it is.. sunlight is incredibly blinding when you don't see it for weeks on end). Back on track - the massive amounts of ethanol production are not going to do anything to reduce fuel costs , save the environment and are in fact, reducing the amount of the food supply worldwide. Regardless of the "double" uses of the corn in ethanol, it is an economically inefficient source of energy and requires tremendous amounts of oil-based energy.
Additionally, for those out there that lack common sense or basic economic reasoning/education.. lets say we drop the amount of the food supply and increase the cost of transporting it.. holy sh*t Batman, the price increases. The only reason we don't have even higher prices is that we do not have the same gas/oil regulations in place. It is a multi-part equation.

However, we should most likely refrain from discussing politics and economics, rather instead focusing our energy on football... to do things like rip on QB's who lost to CMS the year before they won a national championship.. I mean rode the legs of their amazing running back to a national championship. Ooops, did I say that out loud.  

[Sabretooth Tiger]

No football players available to be academic all americans?     This all started with saying that the admissons standards are much higher in the SCIAC than in the rest of the country and that is why you can not compete on the narional stage.  That is why I have referred to you as a whole.  That is why I have pointed out that if the students have to be better students to get into your institutions they should be doing as well or better in the class room and producing academic all americans then.  Seems reasonable to me why don't you see it that way? 

On your point about Fulbright and Goldwater Scholars how many of them are on the football team?  If you can not be successful because of admissions policies then you should be successful putting out good scholars. 

God, you remind me of opposing counsel who, when stranded without supporting facts or law, fall back on the tried and true "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****" theory of advocacy.

You're a lawyer aren't you?

OK, you want football reading, here it is:

http://www.oxyathletics.com/sports/fball/alumni/AlumniScholars

And by the way . . . I never said that SCIAC schools could not compete on the national stage because of selective admissions standards.  What I said was that I thought that any school adopting a policy of dedicating resources for the purpose of consistently seeking to win a national D3 title in ANY sport had misplaced priorities.

tooth

[KCDutch]

Words have meanings.  Just admit your quote was false as your numbers show. 

I'll settle for being right 99.959042% of the time any day.

Oh, yeah, and another thing about corn: Government mandates for the use of corn to make ethanol is one of the main drivers of rampant inflation of worldwide food costs during the past year. Grocery bills are up everywhere in the US. The United Nations World Food Program reports that rising food prices have pushed 100 million people into hunger worldwide. So not only is Iowa corn used to make Americans fat and unhealthy, it's ironically also a cause of starvation.

OxyBob

Spot on.. there is an interesting article/study about this that I was reading recently.. that is when they let me out of the cube (as rare as it is.. sunlight is incredibly blinding when you don't see it for weeks on end). Back on track - the massive amounts of ethanol production are not going to do anything to reduce fuel costs , save the environment and are in fact, reducing the amount of the food supply worldwide. Regardless of the "double" uses of the corn in ethanol, it is an economically inefficient source of energy and requires tremendous amounts of oil-based energy.
Additionally, for those out there that lack common sense or basic economic reasoning/education.. lets say we drop the amount of the food supply and increase the cost of transporting it.. holy sh*t Batman, the price increases. The only reason we don't have even higher prices is that we do not have the same gas/oil regulations in place. It is a multi-part equation.

However, we should most likely refrain from discussing politics and economics, rather instead focusing our energy on football... to do things like rip on QB's who lost to CMS the year before they won a national championship.. I mean rode the legs of their amazing running back to a national championship. Ooops, did I say that out loud.  

I'll agree about getting back to football, but your missing the point.  The corn or other crops will/would be harested regardless of ethanol uses or not.  So, lets get two uses out of the corn or one....the fuel used to harest the crop goes twice as far.  Seems to make sense, but I was not educated in the Ivy league (SCIAC) of the D3.

Oil prices are the problem, which IMO should be blamed on the world's decision to not turn to alternative energy in the 70s.  Also, the weak dollar doesn't help the price of oil given it is priced in dollars.    

[DutchFan2004]

No football players available to be academic all americans?     This all started with saying that the admissons standards are much higher in the SCIAC than in the rest of the country and that is why you can not compete on the narional stage.  That is why I have referred to you as a whole.  That is why I have pointed out that if the students have to be better students to get into your institutions they should be doing as well or better in the class room and producing academic all americans then.  Seems reasonable to me why don't you see it that way? 

On your point about Fulbright and Goldwater Scholars how many of them are on the football team?  If you can not be successful because of admissions policies then you should be successful putting out good scholars. 

God, you remind me of opposing counsel who, when stranded without supporting facts or law, fall back on the tried and true "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****" theory of advocacy.

You're a lawyer aren't you?

OK, you want football reading, here it is:

http://www.oxyathletics.com/sports/fball/alumni/AlumniScholars

And by the way . . . I never said that SCIAC schools could not compete on the national stage because of selective admissions standards.  What I said was that I thought that any school adopting a policy of dedicating resources for the purpose of consistently seeking to win a national D3 title in ANY sport had misplaced priorities.

tooth

+k for the last part.  I agree that spending resources for the sole purpose of winning titles is not in the best interest of the students.  If you can turn out good players and good students then you have done your job.  


No I am not a lawyer.

[Knightstalker]

Food costs would also be lower if the US wasn't still paying farmers to plow crops under.  The US and Russia could feed the world cheaply if our governments would rectify their cranial rectal inversions and actually see the world.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't an Academic AA have to excel in the classroom and on the field/court of competition?

[EastCoastStag]

As for admissions standards -
There are successful teams with high admissions standards: Oxy, Trinity (CT).. who should be allowed to participate in the playoffs, Wabash, among a select few.
There are teams who can surprise from time to time with high admissions standards: Washington & Lee and Case Western
There are teams who suck with high admissions standards
There are teams who suck with low admissions standards

You cannot explicitly define team success based on admission standards. Why? Because there are players w/ Ivy League talent who choose to play DIII ball. There are players w/ DI talent who must go somewhere else because they are academically inept. Some of the very best DIII schools in terms of academics slot some athletes who, because of their ability to pass a hockey puck, throw a football or dunk a basketball are let into elite institutions.

Despite the fact that you will not see me agreeing with Tooth on political issues, he is right in saying that any school adopting a policy of dedicated resources (and in this case students who cannot meet basic academic standards) for the purpose of consistently seeking to win a national DIII title in any sport had misplaced priorities

Sidebar: the Ivy League of the SCIAC is actually the NESCAC.. they have the double standards, elitism and arrogance down to a fault. It is rather entertaining actually.

Sidebar 2: good point. WHY THE F*CK are we paying to plow crops under?

[wildcat11]

Now the real trick here is for FearThePoet to somehow crowbar Little Ricky into this discussion.  Then the circle would be complete.

[EastCoastStag]

The argument could be made that if LR didn't workout so hard to be a good football player and thrower, then he would reduce his calorie count and total food intake, thereby increasing the amount of food available elsewhere on the Poet campus and perhaps driving down the price of food?

Oh lets leave LR out of non-football and non-track related discussions.. that is unless he also has some great academic success, in which case we will celebrate his accomplishments.

[DutchFan2004]

Food costs would also be lower if the US wasn't still paying farmers to plow crops under.  The US and Russia could feed the world cheaply if our governments would rectify their cranial rectal inversions and actually see the world.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't an Academic AA have to excel in the classroom and on the field/court of competition?

I believe the phrase is significant participation for AAA for the on field/court part of it.

[DutchFan2004]

Food inflation is tied more to oil prices not ethanol.  Go back to the oil embargo days, and food inflation was actually higher than it is now.

Well, not exactly. I do remember the 1970s OPEC oil embargo. That's when Congress started passing legislation to promote ethanol made from corn as an alternative fuel. Congress gave corn farmers all sorts of tax breaks and subsidies, but despite the help the US became more dependent on imported oil, and ethanol production remained largely marginal.

Nowadays, however, thanks to high oil prices and even more generous government subsidies, ethanol made from corn is all the rage. The problem is that the gigantic volume of corn required by ethanol producers is affecting the entire food supply. The US grows about 40% of the world's corn and produces about 45% of the world's ethanol. (Brazil accounts for about another 45% of the world's ethanol, which Brazil makes from sugar cane.) Corn futures are the highest they've been in a decade, which in turn has caused wheat and rice prices to rise to 10-year highs, because farmers are planting more acres with yellow dent corn and fewer acres with other crops.

What's happening is that now both food prices and oil prices are high. The prices of staple grains have continued to go up. By mandating the production of ethanol as an alternative fuel, our government is causing higher prices for both processed and staple foods around the world. So, like it or not, the production of ethanol made from Iowa corn has combined with oil and food prices in a way that affects the production of food, and in turn causes more poverty and starvation around the world. God bless America.

OxyBob

One thing that has been left out of this conversation is that the government no longer has to pay subsidies to the farmer to keep them from growing broke due to over production.  It seems the government for what ever reason can not keep out of the way.  The cheap dollar has been a reason for the oil price to be higher. I have not checked it out but heard on a radio show the other day that the price of oil has not changed compared to the price of gold in the last 50 years.  This is not researched but I would be willing to bet it may be close.