FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[D O.C.]

I very much enjoyed watching Andy Collins play.

He could have played at LINFIELD.

[DFWCrufan]

Wildcat 11, I didn't take it as a liberal or conservative thing, for the guys it was a moment in their lives they wanted to do something as a team. The complaint came from an outside source who didn't even want to comprehend why they guys elected for this. We complied with the decision I had just wished the AD would have understood it was a single voice who really had nothing to do with any program and was only on campus two hours a day.
But our later discussions were on a good note, I explained that we don't always get what we would like in this world and when a big A$$ed lemon falls on you you make lemonade. I'm still in contact with many of those guys, they are fathers now and have families (when the hell did that happen they are kids) and I'm proud that we still discuss life things sometimes (I'm still coach) three of them I recruited into my Alma Mater to play soccer, so overall it ended up being a great experience.
I think my point is, your going to have all  kinds in this world, we can scream and rant and stomp all around, or, if things don't go our way, we change tac and come at it another way, faster stronger and harder.
Success is the greater victory I would say - And yeah, like you I shake my head and some of the more right than i am chatter that bounces around, but I just look at it like something I can read to absorb, or read to giggle at and usually it's the latter

Oh and to tie in a SCIAC Note...(sorry old dog) WAY TO GO CHAPMAN! I liked the game (even though I fell asleep in the fourth) Perhaps there will be a new SCIAC king?

[MonroviaCat]

Oh and to tie in a SCIAC Note...(sorry old dog) WAY TO GO CHAPMAN! I liked the game (even though I fell asleep in the fourth) Perhaps there will be a new SCIAC king?

I think it's been a while since the SCIAC had a king.  Redlands won it last year, LaVerne (yes LaVerne) the year before, Chapman the year before that,  then Redlands, then Cal Lu for a few years, and Oxy before them.  While the SCIAC doesn't often produce a national contender, it is always a fun conference to follow because of the parity!

[OxyBob]

Back to Andy Collins:

I very much enjoyed watching Andy Collins play.
He could have played at LINFIELD.

Andy Collins was the best QB I've seen at the DIII level. Better than Brett Elliott, Danny Ragsdale, and many more that come to mind.

2017 Occidental College Hall of Fame inductee Andy Collins '07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubc-_lyzE2s

OxyBob

[jknezek]

First of all, when a national anthem is played -- be it the Star Spangled Banner or another country's national anthem -- courtesy, decorum, respect, goodwill and etiquette dictate that you stand, remove your hat and either sing the anthem (if you so desire) or politely remain silent. Certainly your parents taught you some good manners.

You clearly have not been to many sporting events lately. The stands are rife with people not doing this, and they aren't protesting, they just believe they have better things to do. That being said, a protest that is full of courtesy, respect, goodwill, and etiquette is not a protest. The whole point of a protest is to do something that breaks societal norms to bring attention to your cause. Whether that is blocking a road or kneeling during the anthem, you are doing something that breeches courtesy, respect, and goodwill to someone. Otherwise it simply isn't a protest.

There are plenty of places and means to air your protest of whatever it is you're protesting, assuming you can even articulate what it is you're protesting. For NFL players, it's not the time to protest when you're on the field in your uniform in front of fans who paid to come and see a professional game and enjoy themselves. It's stupid for the players to kneel because it just pisses people off and any protest the players are engaging in gets completely lost. 

I agree. Again, it goes to that whole attention to a cause thing. If Colin Kaepernick simply kneeled in his front yard for 3 minutes a day, it wouldn't really do much to bring attention to his cause would it? This was his, and now other's, stage. It is what they had and so they are using it.

As far as the NFL is concerned, the league must be careful when regulating the players' off duty conduct regarding politics.  However, the league (or each team) could and should establish a clear employment policy regarding political protests on the field, when the players are on the job, playing the game. Legitimate business reasons could include the NFL's reputation, disruption in the workplace (the game), players' morale, or loss of business relationships related to the conduct (namely, the fans get really angry and stop coming to games or stop watching games on TV).

All of this is also true. However, the league has a policy on what NFL players are supposed to do during the National Anthem. It's part of a negotiated code of conduct that they cannot unilaterally change. And unfortunately for the owners right now, that policy says players "should" stand during the anthem. It doesn't say "will" or "must", and so there is a bit of a legal issue. The reason owners haven't wanted to challenge this with fines and other penalties is because it is not clear they can win. If they could, they probably would have already. They are left to negotiate with players because the legally binding contract between players and owners is relevant. I'm sure the next contract will be more specific.

And to bring this back to D3 football, you can see the issue Albright has made of this mess in one of several articles this week. The team agreed to kneel during the coin toss and stand for the anthem. One kid didn't stand for the anthem so they threw him off the team. Then someone realized that 2 other players didn't kneel for the coin toss, so they had to throw those two off the team. Then sanity prevailed and university decided that throwing kids off the team was pretty draconian. So the school created a policy that the athletes could do what they want and invited the three players back. Meanwhile they've gotten a lot more press than they wanted about an issue they didn't want. Albright would have had no press what so ever if they hadn't thrown the kid off in the first place and just done what everyone else should do.

Live and let live. Not everyone has to agree with what you believe and do what you think is right. Especially on an issue that really doesn't effect anyone other than the person making the decision to stand, kneel, take his or her hat on or off, put a hand over his or her heart or not, siing or not, or just sit there while dumbly staring at cellphone screen oblivious to the world around him or her. All of which happens pretty much every time the anthem is played these days at a major sporting event.

[USTBench]

It seems the people most ardently against the government interfering in their personal lives seem to have the biggest problem with some guys kneeling and fully support POTUS demanding they stand. Why? Who cares?

Olddog says he's going to put an auto purchase on hold until some unnamed car company kowtows to his jingoism  by pulling their sponsorship of the NFL. All because some guy he's never met, and has no context of where he came from, wants to have a dialogue about the systemic oppression stemming out of slavery, redlining from the National Housing Act of 1934, Jim Crow laws, covert lynching, the war on drugs that gave crack users 10x the prison time as cocaine users (read: black people), the prison industrial complex, mass incarceration and police brutality, all of which currently affects a black person's reality in 2017.

There's a third verse of the Star Spangled Banner, written by a man who prosecuted abolitionists:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave

About our stunning defeat of the Corps of Colonial Marines, black slaves promised their freedom if they fought for the Brits. Wonder why we left that verse out? 

"But people died for that song and flag!" Wrong. They died for a country founded on a collection of ideas whose core tenant was life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not forcing people to respect YOUR belief system.

Time and time again they have said it's not about the military, but this Toby Keith brand of patriotism renders any dialogue meaningless. Which is ironic because Toby Keith is a Ford pitchman, which sponsors the NFL.

"I got a black friend and he says he's not oppressed!" Well then, let's do the truly libertarian thing and FORCE people to stand for a song about the British bombing the Chesapeake Bay 205 years ago, because slave owners didn't want to pay their taxes.

I stand with my hand over my heart and remove my cap EVERY time the anthem is played, because that's what I CHOOSE to do out of reverence for the ideas my country supposedly stands for, as is my right, and if someone kneels (as one does in prayer, genuflection, while getting flipping knighted) during that song, how is that MY problem? It's not. That person should be free to do as they choose in a PUBLICLY FINANCED STADIUM (which I have ANOTHER problem with!) Grow up, America ain't perfect.

"It's not that I'm a xenophobe. It's just that I think America is the greatest country in the world and all the other countries are not as good." - Kenny Powers

[(509)Rat]

OxyCollins on those Linfield teams would have been scarier than Elliot on the Oxy teams. Having played against both...Elliot gave you a lot less room for error in the secondary. If you weren't on Hazenberg or Casey's hip, you weren't gonna make a play on the ball (heck even then those two may have still taken it from you). As a defense in general OxyCollins was terrifying because he was so much more athletic. For the NWC fans, Collins is what you would get if Elliot and Joel Clark had a love child.

As for wildcat11 being a liberal, that's fine as long as you mean liberal in the classical sense and not a "progressive." If it's actually the latter then you should get checked for a brain tumor.

Going back to women playing men's professional sports...there are 14-15 year old boys that are faster than FloJo (the fastest woman ever to live). I don't care about the national anthem stuff.

[RFB]

Thanks for sharing, OxyBob. A few things stand out watching the video:

1. What a talent Andy Collins was. His impact on DIII football, Occidental, his coaches/teammates was immense. You can see in the video what he meant to those who knew him best.

2. I'll state it again until I'm blue in the face. What a travesty DW is no longer leading Oxy's football program.

3. We have been tough on Oxy, but the video was well done.

4. Justin Goltz: can't forget how great of a QB he was too.

RIP AC

[wildcat11]

OxyCollins on those Linfield teams would have been scarier than Elliot on the Oxy teams. Having played against both...Elliot gave you a lot less room for error in the secondary. If you weren’t on Hazenberg or Casey’s hip, you weren’t gonna make a play on the ball (heck even then those two may have still taken it from you). As a defense in general OxyCollins was terrifying because he was so much more athletic. For the NWC fans, Collins is what you would get if Elliot and Joel Clark had a love child.

As for wildcat11 being a liberal, that’s fine as long as you mean liberal in the classical sense and not a “progressive.” If it’s actually the latter then you should get checked for a brain tumor.

Going back to women playing men’s professional sports...there are 14-15 year old boys that are faster than FloJo (the fastest woman ever to live). I don’t care about the national anthem stuff.

I don't know..loved Collins.  He was a warrior for Oxy but there were a few games where Elliott's pin point ability and quick release saved the 'Cats and Collins mix of skills may have not (2004 UWSP). Both were titans and felt it was an honor to see them go head-to-head twice. 

Still can't figure out how we held Joel Clark to his worst game in his career and still lost that 2006 game.

[jknezek]

Live and let live.

Translation: No standards. Everything is relative. Selfism.

Me me me. Look at me. Look at me kneeling. See me kneeling. I'm against something or other so I'm kneeling. Patting myself on the back for kneeling. Still mad Trump won so I'm kneeling. Not aimlessly marching up and down the street today while wearing my vagina hat and waving my silly handmade sign and chanting trite slogans so I'm kneeling. I'm a good person for kneeling and this proves it. Taking a selfie of myself kneeling. Me me me me me. Don't forget me.

OxyBob

Pathetic. Heres what I just got from OxyBob. "I can't use logic and reasoning because my goose stepping need for conformity gets in the way of any kind of critical thinking. Please make everyone like me so I'm not so scared of everyone else and new ideas never threaten my stale and terrified mind!"

[smedindy]

Live and let live.

Translation: No standards. Everything is relative. Selfism.

Me me me. Look at me. Look at me complaining about kneeling. See me complaining about kneeling. I'm for or complacent regarding something or other so I'm complaining about kneeling. Patting myself on the back for complaining about kneeling. Still mad at those who are mad that Trump won so I'm complaining about kneeling. I don't have the guts to march and protest and chant and petition and write representatives and senators, and donate to charity and work with those who have need and those who suffer injustice, so I'm complaining about kneeling. I don't have time to create dialogue with the protestors, or find out why they're protesting, and wonder why my 'innocuous' comments are offensive to women and minorities, so I'm complaining about kneeling. I'm a good person for complaining about kneeling and this proves it. Taking a selfie of myself complaining about kneeling. Me me me me me. Don't forget me. I'm mad and complaining about peaceful protests.

OxyBob

FIXED....

[smedindy]

Live and let live.

Translation: No standards. Everything is relative. Selfism.

Me me me. Look at me. Look at me kneeling. See me kneeling. I'm against something or other so I'm kneeling. Patting myself on the back for kneeling. Still mad Trump won so I'm kneeling. Not aimlessly marching up and down the street today while wearing my vagina hat and waving my silly handmade sign and chanting trite slogans so I'm kneeling. I'm a good person for kneeling and this proves it. Taking a selfie of myself kneeling. Me me me me me. Don't forget me.

OxyBob

Pathetic. Heres what I just got from OxyBob. "I can't use logic and reasoning because my goose stepping need for conformity gets in the way of any kind of critical thinking. Please make everyone like me so I'm not so scared of everyone else and new ideas never threaten my stale and terrified mind!"

I've noticed a few people can't fathom why people would dare to protest or speak out, when they probably were protesting or speaking out the last 8 years. And maybe, maybe, if the administrations allowed people to order coffee and lunch in an effort to dialogue buildings wouldn't have been firebombed in the 60's.

[smedindy]

Just this week I saw some schlub sitting on a flag. Someone I know have noticed the richies in the suites filling their belly with overpriced chicken fingers and cocktails while the anthem is playing. And yet, people are upset when a respectful knee is taken.

And I wonder the correlation between the 'don't kneel' folks and the 'don't take down our heritage with the statues and flags that only became important in the 50's and 60's' crowd.

[RFB]

Just this week I saw some schlub sitting on a flag. Someone I know have noticed the richies in the suites filling their belly with overpriced chicken fingers and cocktails while the anthem is playing. And yet, people are upset when a respectful knee is taken.

And I wonder the correlation between the 'don't kneel' folks and the 'don't take down our heritage with the statues and flags that only became important in the 50's and 60's' crowd.

Stand for the flag, with your hat off and your hand over your heart. Shut your lip and pay respect to those that spilled their blood and gave the ultimate sacrifice.

[smedindy]

That's. Not. Why. They. Are. Protesting.

Plus, they are kneeling because of a Green Beret:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ex-green-beret-nate-boyer-writes-open-letter-to-trump-kaepernick-nfl-every-single-american/