FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Gray Fox]

At our tailgate in Collegeville this weekend, there was discussion of a "demographic cliff" that's about to slam higher education, what kind of fiscal shape is Whittier in?
Not that long ago (2015, I think), I participated in an appellate advocacy competition at Whittier's now closed law school. Seems like they have been cutting a lot recently--and not just a minor here, and an obsolete major there--it's been substantial stuff.

Is there any concern in Southern California that Whittier may end up completely closing? I have concerns for a number of schools here in the Upper Midwest that are at particular risk of closing.

Very much so. The handling of this Whittier situation is a complete dumpster fire. Under Oubres tenure:
2018 enrollment: 1700
2022 enrollment: 1100
2018 Athletes: 475
2022 athletes: 455
2018 Board of trustees: 40 members (full)
2022 Board of trustees: 23 members
All while cost of attending WC is at an all time high.
Sports are not hurting. WC football runs on roughly $800k budget. They get roughly 20k per full tuition student. Not all athletes are full pay but quite a bit are. Its not a money issue either as Whittier football routinely breaks even. It is even better with saving costs in the SCIAC by playin one less game (academic conference thing) and one less away game with the added non-conference SCIAC game.
Oubre wants to get rid of all athletics and make way for development of athletic field areas in the canyon for revenue. She has stated that athletics exploit minorities, rather than provide opportunity. Its all a lie and she needs to go. I fear for more than just 4 Varsity sports at WC. I fear that it may be turned into a summer camp. Hell, Whittier Christian is thriving, they may need a new campus.
Alumni are furious and many have pulled their donations and endowments (i pulled mine in 2018 when they gave the school over to this wacko).

Why doesn't the BOT speak up or act? Or are the 17 who left just fed up?

[criswyly]

The problem with many in the academic world is that they think they're something when they are nothing.  Many are just puppets of the rich and powerful who do and say whatever is necessary in order to keep their grant money coming in the door.  But I better shut up or Pat is going to come along and delete this post.   Especially since this is one of my favorite subjects. CS Lewis speaks about this eloquently.

[criswyly]

And this is supposed to be about football. Keep those emojis comin...and no more cowbell

[SagatagSam]

Those enrollment number reductions are crazy--35%+ in a four year span.

[olddog]

Whittier used to be considered a good school. It could have flourished...but

I think if the president short term idea is to sell off the athletic fields, its the wrong move and they would not be able to monetize that transaction very soon, those residents above will want a buffer when the school closes.

What we forget is many studies show some kids wont even consider a school if no football team.

[SagatagSam]

Whittier used to be considered a good school. It could have flourished...but

I think if the president short term idea is to sell off the athletic fields, its the wrong move and they would not be able to monetize that transaction very soon, those residents above will want a buffer when the school closes.

What we forget is many studies show some kids wont even consider a school if no football team.

My wife did precisely that. She looked at and then immediately eliminated some schools' athletic training program because of the absence of football. Xavier U. in Cincinnati being one of them.

I went to Xavier for grad school. They eliminated football in 1973, just a few years after losing to the replacement players on the 1971 Marshall Thundering Herd players following the November 1970 plan crash that killed most of the team and coaching staff.

The rumor around the Xavier alumni community is that there is a large donor that is going to finance the return of football. The administration is embracing it, apparently, because it will help boost enrollment when the demographic cliff hits in a few years.

[Dr. Doolittle]

I know that Whittier losing football is a big deal, but the school has been on a downward spiral in academic rankings as well.  It is one thing if your school is academically strong, but weak at sports. However, when you a poor at both academics and athletics, why would someone attend that school?

[olddog]

Sag,

You are correct about students wanting to be therapist and how nice it is to have a FB team. It is much better to do case work on a football player. UR allows master students from outside the school to work on FB players for their case studies. Its nice the players get so much attention, especially in the re-hab portion and trying to get back on the field.

[WCPoets17]

At our tailgate in Collegeville this weekend, there was discussion of a "demographic cliff" that's about to slam higher education, what kind of fiscal shape is Whittier in?
Not that long ago (2015, I think), I participated in an appellate advocacy competition at Whittier's now closed law school. Seems like they have been cutting a lot recently--and not just a minor here, and an obsolete major there--it's been substantial stuff.

Is there any concern in Southern California that Whittier may end up completely closing? I have concerns for a number of schools here in the Upper Midwest that are at particular risk of closing.

Very much so. The handling of this Whittier situation is a complete dumpster fire. Under Oubres tenure:
2018 enrollment: 1700
2022 enrollment: 1100
2018 Athletes: 475
2022 athletes: 455
2018 Board of trustees: 40 members (full)
2022 Board of trustees: 23 members
All while cost of attending WC is at an all time high.
Sports are not hurting. WC football runs on roughly $800k budget. They get roughly 20k per full tuition student. Not all athletes are full pay but quite a bit are. Its not a money issue either as Whittier football routinely breaks even. It is even better with saving costs in the SCIAC by playin one less game (academic conference thing) and one less away game with the added non-conference SCIAC game.
Oubre wants to get rid of all athletics and make way for development of athletic field areas in the canyon for revenue. She has stated that athletics exploit minorities, rather than provide opportunity. Its all a lie and she needs to go. I fear for more than just 4 Varsity sports at WC. I fear that it may be turned into a summer camp. Hell, Whittier Christian is thriving, they may need a new campus.
Alumni are furious and many have pulled their donations and endowments (i pulled mine in 2018 when they gave the school over to this wacko).

Why doesn't the BOT speak up or act? Or are the 17 who left just fed up?

She hand picked her board over the last 4 years. There are few standing strong that will not give Oubre the benefit of resigning, but those standing strong are definitely the minority in this battle. (Oubre was for years the President of the Board of the Weingart foundation, a non-profit for equity in Los Angeles. Miguel Santana, President of the BOT of WC is the CEO of Weingart Foundation... absolute conflict of interests and further shows the corruption of this president).
Also, yes, Whittier as a whole is in dire straights. This is much bigger than football, lacrosse and golf. It looks like this is the beginning of the end for an institution that has been around since 1887. I feel for current athletes, past athletes, alumni, and faculty. Spoke to my old Kinesiology professor and she and the Kinesiology chair are both retiring as the enrollment in the major is on steep decline as athletic programs are cut. Sad times for the SCIAC.  Sad times for the Hills of Whittier. Sad times for small college opportunities...

[olddog]

When college prices went up faster than inflation the last 15 years and they still ran it in the ground, tell you a lot about academics.

[SagatagSam]

When college prices went up faster than inflation the last 15 years and they still ran it in the ground, tell you a lot about academics.

Has it only been 15 years where higher education costs have risen faster than inflation? Feels like it's been doing that since the late 80s or early 90s.

I feel like with prices rising like that some of these schools have to fail. The quality of education simply doesn't justify the expense.

In 1950, around 7.3% of males and 5.2% females had college degrees. As of 2021, 36.6% of males and 39.1 of females have college degrees. In some respects, college has become the new high school. Sooner or later the ride has to stop when not everyone can get a job to service the debt they are taking on.

[Retired Old Rat]

Sam, we're already there. Something has to give. For too many there is no return on investment.

[SagatagSam]

Sam, we're already there. Something has to give. For too many there is no return on investment.

I agree. The law school bubble popped about 12 years ago, and enrollments are just barely starting to inch back up. In my opinion there are still a number of law schools that should close or merge.

Saint John's is in the process of a small-ish sized overhaul of some of its academic programs. The Provost is recommending the elimination of several majors (or having them reduced to a minor), and they are discussing adding a finance and engineering program (because those kinds of programs are the only ones that can justify going $40,000+ in debt).

[wildcat11]

It's concerning.  I only have one kid (12).  She works hard at school and wants to go to college.  We're doing what we can to prepare now to give her the opportunity, if she wants, so she won't be drowning in student debt but I don't think we could pull it off if we had 2, 3, 4 kids.....it's just too much.

[SagatagSam]

It's concerning.  I only have one kid (12).  She works hard at school and wants to go to college.  We're doing what we can to prepare now to give her the opportunity, if she wants, so she won't be drowning in student debt but I don't think we could pull it off if we had 2, 3, 4 kids.....it's just too much.

I've got three kids (6, 5, and 2 years old) and I have serious concerns about a 4 year college being a viable thing for them. I've given feedback to my alma mater(s) and said that there's no way my kids will be able to attend if the cost of attendance keeps increasing at this insane rate. When I graduated from college (2007), all-in cost of attendance (tuition, room & board, etc.) at Saint John's was around $35K annually. Now it's clear over $64K. This is nowhere near sustainable.