FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[rockcat]

At any rate, the money gods drive the pairings more than anything else (near as I can tell) . . . any comments Pat?

Saber,

A few years ago two NWC teams got bids.  It happened at least once that I can remember.  The NCAA made their pairings so they wouldn't meet until the second round.  I think it was in '99 when PLU won it.  But, you never know what the NCAA is going to do when playoffs come.  It's definitely a crap shoot.

If Redlands finishes 2nd in the SCIAC with their only loss being to Oxy it seems like they would be in excellent shape for a bid considering their non-conference schedule.

[CRZK]

Sabre;

What I was driving at about my comment is what a couple other posters have alluded to.

It seems to me that comments toward the end of the last couple of seasons have mentioned several issues, eg. SCIAC is weak conference except for Redlands (maybe OXY now), only Redlands has the worthy out of conference schedule, SCIAC schools do not do well in post season.  Therefore the conference gets only the automatic bid because of size.

I remember the $ comments last season, but is it really that much less expensive to fly Whitworth to LA (as they did two years ago), then to fly a midwest school out of one of their major air hubs to play OXY in the first round as should have been done last year?

That's what I was driving at.  Despite costing a little bit more, in interests of providing the best potential matchups shouldn't the powers that be willing to spend just a little bit more?

That also begins to take in the issue of an at large bid.  It sure looks like CLU deserved an at-large bid.  Could it be that $ also played a role in denying them?  For example, well we could give SCIAC 2nd place a spot but we'll make them stay and play the conference champs again because that way we have only one flight to the west (that to play Linfield)?

Not whining mind you, just considering that as the conference grows stronger and gains more nationwide respect, that that translates into travel and pairing considerations in the post season.

[dawgs go deep]

If the SCIAC is a weak conference, it shouldnt be. It needs to start to draw more attention to itself through the media.  The schools in the SCIAC are outstanding schools.  They offer a great alternative to the large school education and a great alternative to big time sports.........

I think if the schools can somehow find a way to keep the local talent local, the conference would improve tremendously. 

The small schools on the east coast do a great job of promoting their athletics and drawing local talent.  The SCIAC needs to do the same.  Isnt this a reason why Mt. Union and Linfield are so successful?  They dont take a backseat in recruiting, they are agrressive and make student athletes aware of the wonderful alternative they offer.

As to the playoffs, does the NCAA pay for the flights or does each school pick up its own tab? Money should not come into play in determining a national champion.  Money is made on the tournament...it should be pooled and used to make the brackets as fair to all as possible.  From what I  saw last year, CLU got screwed.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

DGD writes:  "There are so many good atheletes in Calif that go back east to small 1AA and d2&3 schools.  If the SCIAC and other d3 conferences were better advertised and marketed, they could keep many of these kids home."

DGD:  Kids who make college selection decisions based on football programs are going to go to IAA, DII or NAIA over DIII as those schools can offer athletic scholarship money that DIII schools can't.

Schools like Pomona, Claremont and Oxy are top nationally ranked residential liberal arts colleges that draw kids from all over the country.  They draw kids that want a unique expierience, a small liberal arts college in an urban setting with an academically rigorous program.  Kids who choose these schools don't choose them because of the football programs . . . or any sport . . . that's the icing on the cake.  They are very expensive and scholarship money is given on complicated formulas of merit and need.  (Cal Tech is also a SCIAC school in this category, but does not compete in football so is not included in the discussion).

Redlands, Whittier, Cal Lutheran and LaVerne are regional liberal arts colleges some ranked better than others.  Redlands has the additional factor of putting a lot of resources into and emphasis on its athletic programs.  The costs are a tad less than at Claremont, Pomona and Oxy.

All of the colleges work very hard on recruitment.  They draw (some more than others) the student-athlete . . . not the athlete-student.  Factors like the family's ability to pay the freight are huge factors in the decision making process.

In sum, I don't think that advertising and marketing (or a any lack thereof) is much of a factor on the level of athletic competition in the SCIAC.  It is, in my view, more of a realization of the priority of sports at the institutions, and the places in the community of higher learning that the institutions occupy.

And don't forget, once you start moving east, you'll find DIII programs and schools that are public schools (Wisconsin) with the attendant reduced costs and much larger student bodies.

 

[Sabretooth Tiger]

"Cal Lu got screwed?" . . . give me a break.  Cal Lu was on the bubble and had lost to Oxy 41-9.  Now, it would have been nice to see two SCIAC teams, and frankly, it likely would have been to Oxy's advantage (maybe we'd have opened at home against Monmouth?).

At any rate, Cal Lu was certainly dissapointed . . . but screwed?  No way.

[CRZK]

Since this is a football board, thought I would add a comment on the "other football."  The round instead of pointy!.

Argetina vs Germany, 1-1 at the end of regulation and OT.  On to penalty kicks!!!

[CRZK]

Last comment on round football.  Germany wins in PK's!

Now back to pointy football.

[Browneagle64]

Crzk---- You should check out the boards that Pat and the other board Gods put up for soccer. Its been great to see all fans from these boards give an input on the "World's game".

Any words on Pomona and the staggs for football.

[Som Yung Gy]

"As to the playoffs, does the NCAA pay for the flights or does each school pick up its own tab? Money should not come into play in determining a national champion.  Money is made on the tournament...it should be pooled and used to make the brackets as fair to all as possible.  From what I  saw last year, CLU got screwed. "

As far as I know the NCAA provides all the travel/operations costs for the D-3 playoffs.  Which all the schools are very appreciative of this, because without the NCAA's financial assistance many school's athletic budgets would not be able to afford to compete nationally.  D-3 playoffs generate very little revenue on it's own, it's a money loser for the NCAA, most of the operating costs come from the revenue generated from NCAA d-1 B-Ball tourney to fund other athletic playoffs, ie D3 football.

So yes the brackets and playoffs are very much effected by MONEY, but it's a painful trade-off.  If fair competition was the primary goal of the D-3 playoff system, then 4 of the top 6 teams in the nation last year would not have been regionally bracketed against each other. 

d3football.com's prediction brackets were much more fair from a competitive stand point, and made a lot more sence.  They predicted that Oxy would be the #1 seed in the South region and UW Bridgewater would be the top seed in the North.  Leaving St Johns and Linfield to fight for the west.  But unfortunately, we know that this is not how it went, because this senario would have increased the number of 1st round flights from 1 (oxy to linfield) in the first round to at least 2 (opp to linfield, & opp to oxy).  At over $75k a pop. 

It's a tough pill to swallow, but a necessary one at that.  So unless either the NWC & SCIAC get another team in like 2004, it will be NWC champ vs SCIAC champ in 2006, no matter how highly ranked either team is.  Because the NCAA considers both conferences isolated "islands." 

[dawgs go deep]

So Sabertoooth, why cant schools in the SCIAC recruit student(first) atheletes.......and I disagreewith you,  many D3 & 2 schools that dont give scholarships back east are getting kids from Ca.  At Louisville hs, on college night, there were many, many small schools from the east coast recruiting students....offering financial aid. etc....

There are many bounce back kids from Ca that go east and dont like it and come back who went to schools similar to SCIAC schools ...I just think that if the recruiting were more aggressive, many of these kids going back east, to the same types of schools, would stay in Ca........you dont have to sacrifice academics for athletics to accomplish what I am suggesting.

[leopride1]

Someone a couple posts back asked about the Leos QB situation.  From what I know, the frontrunner is APU transfer Troy Doolittle who supposedly was in the hunt for the job last year, but Guerrero pulled ahead before the beginning of the season. 

Another option for the Leos might be a JC transfer from Glendale JC who supposedly was the MVP of that conference.

dgd, as for the whole recruiting thing, I know some D-III schools back east are public, therefore they are less expensive.  Also recruits here on the west coast have options such such as non-scholarship 1-AA program USD, NAIA schools like APU and Humboldt St., and 1-AA schools like Davis who take from the pool of quality players who would otherwise might settle for a D-III school. 

For example, The UW system has UW-Madison, aka the Badgers, that is 1 D-1 Program while the rest of the UW system are D-III schools and pretty much make up their own conference. 

CA recruits usually have a lot of options and most desire to play at the highest level their ability can take them.  At least Redlands has good facilities to lure recruits. La Verne is just starting to upgrade their facilities to bring in more recruits.

[tmerton]

LP1 - Isn't Humboldt State D2?

[leopride1]

ya it is, my bust tmerton, good looking out though.  Humboldt St. is a D-II School.  Thanks for the correction.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

"So Sabertoooth, why cant schools in the SCIAC recruit student(first) atheletes."

DGD:  Go back and re-read my post for crying out loud.  I never said that SCIAC schools could not do so.  Pay attention man.

[dawgs go deep]

Tooth, I was trying to say that I thought SCIAC schools could do a better job of letting student atheletes know what a great opportuinty they are for many, AND THERE IS MONEY AVAILABLE for those student athelets.  It may not be called a scholarship, but it s free money.

I discovered today through a friend that Chapman got a very good QB, Eddie Miller.  He was the Venice HS Qb that went on a full ride to Louisville, didnt like it there, transfered to UCLA, gave up football for the year and now is going to Chapmanto play again.  He is a good one.