FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[rockcat]

There is a ton of ego in 17 year old guys.  They all think they are DI.  This is especially true in California where there are a million DI's.  Everybody knows somebody who went DI from their high school and they think they are just as good.  They all want to say they got a football scholarship, not a need based grant.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

DGD:

All SCIAC schools (indeed, I believe all DIII schools) there is money for students.  It is called scholarship money and it is given on criteria of merit or need.  There is no money available based on athletic skill . . . at least there is not supposed to be.

I can tell you that athletics factors in exacly 0 at Oxy when it comes to scholarship money.

I also know that kids who get accepted to Oxy and Redlands usually face a tough choice.  Redlands will offer about 12,500 in scholarship to a kid that is good enough to get into Oxy.  At Oxy, he gets 0 (because if he's at the top of the entering class to get money at Oxy, he's likely deciding between Oxy, Pomona,  USC, Stanford or a large public institution). . . so he's faced with a choice, take the money to go to Redlands or pay the money to get the Oxy education.

Different kids make different decisions.

At any rate, the notion that the SCIAC conference is not a top DIII conference due to lack of marketing is incorrect and an oversimplification of a multitude of factors varying widely from school to school w/i the conference.

[swede]

My compliments go to the SCIAC board for talking fooball.
Have a safe 4th.

[dawgs go deep]

Sabertooth........well I think you are wrong...I know for a fact that Oxy recruits kids because of athletics....they may not get money that is labeled "for athletics", but they recruit athletes.....what they call the financial aid that the student athletes get, Idont know...yes, it is need based, or academically based, or low interest loans, or aid in the form of jobs etc, etc........

but if you dont think Oxy recruits athletes...sorry, I saw them recruiting  a kid from Harvard Westlake for baseball, I saw them recruit a kid from Crespi, for baseball and football........

So what I am saying is that some kids are drawn to Oxy by athletics....what they get after they qualify is based upon some of the factors I stated above.

Now I know that the acadmeics at Oxy and Redlands are very good, many athletes are more concerned about the quality of the school they go to than the division that they play football in........

[rockcat]

DGD,

I think you are missing everything Saber is saying. 

[leopride1]

Dgd,

Of course Oxy recruits for athletics, as does La Verne, Redlands, Whittier, and every SCIAC team or D-III for that matter.  It is legal to recruit, after all it is college football.  What is not legal is giving financial aid based on athletic ability.  This isn't high school anymore, recruiting is okay, its necessary and part of the game at this level.

[El Tigre]

I have to take this from oxy's point of view as to not skew anyone else's way of recruiting, but I am sure they are about the same. Oxy's coaches do recruit based on athletic ability, but they also have to base their recruiting mostly on the academic performance of each athlete.  They have to be sure that the athlete will be able to get into the school academically.  This is because after all the athletes have sent in their application there is a committee that sits down and goes through each application separately with the respective coaches present and they choose if the prospective student is academically acceptable to the college, but also has athletic ability to perform at the individual college.  To say that their decision is based solely on one or the other is a big mistake.  As for the financial aid that is given out I am pretty confident when I say that athletic ability is not a factor when it comes to this because if the opposite was true I am sure that I received way to much money to attend oxy over the last four years.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

DGD:  Go back and re-read the posts . . . I never said Oxy doesn't recruit athletes.  This whole discussion got started in response to your statement in post 1713:  "There are so many good atheletes in Calif that go back east to small 1AA and d2&3 schools.  If the SCIAC and other d3 conferences were better advertised and marketed, they could keep many of these kids home."

My responses have tried to suggest to you that all of the schools DO recruit . . . and recruit hard . . . but that there are a number of factors that play into the overall strength of the conference programs.  Further, that those factors vary greatly from school to school within the conference.  I am very familiar with Oxy's recruiting and know that the staff works hard to get great athletes.  The point DGD, is that in my view and I think the view of most informed fans, alums, staff, etc., recruiting (or advertising or marketing) isn't the reason that the SCIAC DIII football playoff record isn't better than it is.   

[self-deleted multiple snarky comments here]

El Tigre:  I think your comments are dead on.  Just for the record, I did not mean to suggest that athletics is not part of the decision making process for incoming student athletes.  I do think, however, that most kids coming into Oxy (or any of the the Claremont Colleges for that matter) as athletes make the decision based first on quality of education with athletics being a secondary, although in no way unimportant,  additional  factor.  Money/costs, geographic location, family ties and myriad other factors go into the mix as well, varying in importance from student to student, school to school.

tooth

[El Tigre]

Saber I will have to agree with you on the way that prospective student athletes make their decision when attending college.  For the most part is based off the quality of education they will receive throughout their four years and second is the strength of the athletic program in question.  I know that my decision to attend Oxy in 2002 was based largely upon this breakdown.  My uncle played a while back and first went to Cerritos College then got a scholarship to Illinois.  After he went and played in the NFL for a couple of years before he was injured.  I talked to him when I made my decision and he said that Oxy was a perfect place for me because I was more academically centered than he was.  He told me to first get an education, but play some football in the process because it is always good to have something to fall back on.
   Most D3 athletes know that their athletic career is over after college.  Now I am not saying this is always true because some will go to Europe (Derek Turbin '05) and some will play some in arena or Canadian league (Borrego '03 and PaoPao '03), but for the most part they are all looking for an education to use after they graduate.

[RFB]

I do think, however, that most kids coming into Oxy (or any of the the Claremont Colleges for that matter) as athletes make the decision based first on quality of education with athletics being a secondary, although in no way unimportant,  additional  factor.  Money/costs, geographic location, family ties and myriad other factors go into the mix as well, varying in importance from student to student, school to school.

tooth

To me this is a pretty biased statement. So the Claremont Colleges and Oxy athletes are all academics first in their decision to attend school? But not Cal Lu, Redlands or other SCIAC schools. How about you amend that statement to include all SCIAC schools. I see a lot of homerism lately in promoting different SCIAC schools education on this board. All of the schools are absolutely outstanding. They are all very similar in education foundation.

[dawgs go deep]

Sabertooth,  maybe I misread or simply got the wrong impression from your post.  I thought you were saying that athletics was not a factor in the recruited students decision making process or in who the school recruits. 

I agree that quality of education is a big factor in the decision making process of many incoming student athletes, I think that for the student athlete the athletic considerations are almost as important, especially when the kid has the option to go to more than one SCIAC school.

[dawgs go deep]

For those of you that dont already know...Street and Smith magazine did a great article on d3 football.  They pick a top 25 and a best of the rest and do a short blurb on each school.They also pick a preseason d3 all-american team.  From everything I have read on this board, I am surprised Collins didnt make it.

It certainly looks like Mt. Union is the dominate force in d3....WOW... what a record.   In the games to watch, there isnt a game involving an SCIAC team or any Linfield game.   

Very good article, worth the investment.

[cawcdad]

dgd,
Invest in d3football.com's preseason preview. You'll wonder why you payed for the Street & Smith for the d3 information.

[cawcdad]

This link will give you the preseason top 25 of Lindy's, Street & Smith and Sports Weekly.

[dawgs go deep]

I did already but its not up yet...so I bought the mag...it was pretty interesting.....thanks for the tip though...and for the link.  Just looled a the link you provided...its great...I actually played basketballat one of the schools for a year before going to a D1 program...small world