FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[DutchFan2004]

With better students you should have better GPA's should you not?

Wow . . . where to begin . . . how to explain this simply . . . hmmm?

Let's see, there is the whole "curve" thing.
Academically more challenging schools are . . . how should I put it .  . . academically more challenging?
For example . . . a middle of the road Pomona student would probably be top of the class at Coe . . .
Sort of like putting a D1 starter on a D3 team . . . only we're talking brains instead of bulk.
Playing academically in the "olympic swimming pool" is more challenging that playing in the "tiny tot kiddie pool."

Of course, we'll have to excuse you as you could not possibly have known that some schools require actual reading, writing and thinking. There are no majors in "snowmobile repairs," "an idiot's guide to harvesting sweet corn," or "cattle slaughter."

Yes toto . . . here in Oz . . . aka SoCal . . . all a kid has to do is be admitted to school and it's all "A's" and milkshakes for four years.

For Christmas, if you ask nice, Santa might give you a clue.

Your point is noted but your logic is not consistant.  If academics are so high and the bar so high to let students in the results should mirror each other should it not.  The SCIAC should have more all americans as it has higher standards and higher academics should it not is my whole point. 

[scandihoovian]

Dutchfan-

If a school such as Oxy or Pomona attracts students with higher GPA's, but then subjects them to more demanding academic standards, those students will not necessarily have higher GPAs than their counterparts at less rigorous institutions.  Since GPA plays a large role in the selection of academic All Americans, it follows that there is no guaranteed correlation between the quality of a school's student body and its quantity of Academic All Americans.

I think it is fair to argue, based on your data, that:
1) Central's student athletes are, as a group, more successful academically than the larger student body at Central, or
2) That grade inflation is a problem at Central.

[wildcat11]

This is why Central lead the NCAA with the most accademic all americans with 11.  With such HIGH STANDARDS you would think that the SCIAC would have at least double or triple Central's numbers don't you.  According to those numbers your admission standards are so much higher that all the SCIAC schools should have more academic all americans shouldn't they.  Seems the work ethic thing may have a little legs with the stats you provided.  With better students you should have better GPA's should you not?

Wow...talk about setting it up on the tee.  Outstanding logic.   

[DutchFan2004]

Dutchfan-

If a school such as Oxy or Pomona attracts students with higher GPA's, but then subjects them to more demanding academic standards, those students will not necessarily have higher GPAs than their counterparts at less rigorous institutions.  Since GPA plays a large role in the selection of academic All Americans, it follows that there is no guaranteed correlation between the quality of a school's student body and its quantity of Academic All Americans.

I think it is fair to argue, based on your data, that:
1) Central's student athletes are, as a group, more successful academically than the larger student body at Central, or
2) That grade inflation is a problem at Central.

You have missed my point entirely.  With the admissions standards set so high by the SCIAC they must have better students according to Oxy Bob.  He is the one with the stats on that.  Having said that the SCIAC must have better students.  If that is so the logic dictates they would have more success in the class room regardless of the level of academics.  Is this not logical.  If the SCIAC has better students they should have better performance.  If the student body as a whole has such high academic standards they should have more all americans.  GPA's should statistically be about the same then if the standards are high there then they should be able to produce the same results or better than the lower standards of Central.  The stats provided by Oxy Bob state that the SCIAC schools have =/- a 10% higher admissions standard than Central.  Shouldn't they then have 10% more all americans?  They are 10% pickier than Central.  Even if they are 10% tougher academically they should be able to produce the same amount of all americans then.   

[DutchFan2004]

Dutchfan-

If a school such as Oxy or Pomona attracts students with higher GPA's, but then subjects them to more demanding academic standards, those students will not necessarily have higher GPAs than their counterparts at less rigorous institutions.  Since GPA plays a large role in the selection of academic All Americans, it follows that there is no guaranteed correlation between the quality of a school's student body and its quantity of Academic All Americans.

I think it is fair to argue, based on your data, that:
1) Central's student athletes are, as a group, more successful academically than the larger student body at Central, or
2) That grade inflation is a problem at Central.

The grade inflation would not occur if as stated by one of the previous posters if it is on a curve.  I have no idea if the grades are curved or go on a straight percentage.  Even so if it is a straight percentage then the students earned what they got. 

[DutchFan2004]

This is why Central lead the NCAA with the most accademic all americans with 11.  With such HIGH STANDARDS you would think that the SCIAC would have at least double or triple Central's numbers don't you.  According to those numbers your admission standards are so much higher that all the SCIAC schools should have more academic all americans shouldn't they.  Seems the work ethic thing may have a little legs with the stats you provided.  With better students you should have better GPA's should you not?

Wow...talk about setting it up on the tee.  Outstanding logic.   

If this was such a slow pitch why didn't you knock it out of the park?

[wildcat11]

This is why Central lead the NCAA with the most accademic all americans with 11.  With such HIGH STANDARDS you would think that the SCIAC would have at least double or triple Central's numbers don't you.  According to those numbers your admission standards are so much higher that all the SCIAC schools should have more academic all americans shouldn't they.  Seems the work ethic thing may have a little legs with the stats you provided.  With better students you should have better GPA's should you not?

Wow...talk about setting it up on the tee.  Outstanding logic.   

If this was such a slow pitch why didn't you knock it out of the park?

Well I don't have any kids yet so I can't prattle on about their GPA's so I guess my only response about the general theme of Mid-West kids working harder than our West Coast students is:  work smarter not harder.

[DutchFan2004]

This is why Central lead the NCAA with the most accademic all americans with 11.  With such HIGH STANDARDS you would think that the SCIAC would have at least double or triple Central's numbers don't you.  According to those numbers your admission standards are so much higher that all the SCIAC schools should have more academic all americans shouldn't they.  Seems the work ethic thing may have a little legs with the stats you provided.  With better students you should have better GPA's should you not?

Wow...talk about setting it up on the tee.  Outstanding logic.   

If this was such a slow pitch why didn't you knock it out of the park?

Well I don't have any kids yet so I can't prattle on about their GPA's so I guess my only response about the general theme of Mid-West kids working harder than our West Coast students is:  work smarter not harder.

That can also be a way of working harder.  A very wise man that headed a large company here in Iowa always said plan your work and work your plan.  If you are working smarter you may be working harder.  At least more productive. 

[snoop dawg]

OK.....I think what tooth is saying is that it is easier to maintain an A average at Fresno St.( no disrespect intended) than at Harvard.  Agreed. 

and Klop, you are right about the "what you do in the real world thing"  Years ago when I had a partner and 5 associates I was hiring another attorney.  A guy with a Harvard law degree  applied and I interviewed him.  I hired him.  In the first month I received two calls from the clerk in one of the local court rooms inside two weeks, he left his file sitting once on the judge's desk and once on the courtroom table.  Book smart, yes......but he couldn't wipe his a$$ without help. 

The work ethic thing sprung from midwest farmers and their grueling daily routine.  It has no real meaning outside that area.  However Klop........I will grant you that the people in the midwest are more down to earth and a lot more friendly.  We here in beautiful So. Cal sometimes think that anyone who does not live here has an inferior life style or simply cannot appreciate the finer things in life like we do......wrong.   

[stealth]

Pat,
Logged on this morning and thought my links were all discom-Oxybob-ulated  
You need to start a new board for the DIII academics debate. What the hell is going on here ? Frickin twlight zone. We've been here ad nausea months ago. Let's talk football.

[DutchFan2004]

OK.....I think what tooth is saying is that it is easier to maintain an A average at Fresno St.( no disrespect intended) than at Harvard.  Agreed. 

and Klop, you are right about the "what you do in the real world thing"  Years ago when I had a partner and 5 associates I was hiring another attorney.  A guy with a Harvard law degree  applied and I interviewed him.  I hired him.  In the first month I received two calls from the clerk in one of the local court rooms inside two weeks, he left his file sitting once on the judge's desk and once on the courtroom table.  Book smart, yes......but he couldn't wipe his a$$ without help. 

The work ethic thing sprung from midwest farmers and their grueling daily routine.  It has no real meaning outside that area.  However Klop........I will grant you that the people in the midwest are more down to earth and a lot more friendly.  We here in beautiful So. Cal sometimes think that anyone who does not live here has an inferior life style or simply cannot appreciate the finer things in life like we do......wrong.   

Snoop well put.  I agree with all that you said.  +k

[OXY Oswald]

Still though, I know for a fact that JC football here in California hurts recruiting in the SCIAC.

As you said in a previous post, we've debated this issue here before without resolution. Perhaps you're right, but what it eventually comes down to is admissions standards, and, let's face it, some of the D-III football factories aren't up to SCIAC snuff.

OxyBob

If you took away the JC's in California, Bubba and the other dolts that major in Recreational Psychology wouldn't have anywhere to go to school.  As much as I'd like to agree that Community College hurts SCIAC sports, I can't.  The small percentage of players that attend CC's with the hopes of playing D1 football that are actually smart enough to get into Oxy, Pomona, Claremont, etc. -- do not have the work ethic to maintain grades at a school that doesn't hand them out with a set of pads.

This mans mother had been a teacher in California as well.  She said that on nice days her attendance was horrible because the kids would skip school to go surfing.  Now, that could be a reflection of the lower level of California kids and the competition for the top level students could be fierce.  

Where did she teach, Bayside High?

Get over it.  Attedance will be down in California when it's sunny.  On the other hand, attendance will be low in Iowa when it's snowing.  Students of all ages look for good reasons to skip class regardless of setting.

You have missed my point entirely.  With the admissions standards set so high by the SCIAC they must have better students according to Oxy Bob.  He is the one with the stats on that.  Having said that the SCIAC must have better students.  If that is so the logic dictates they would have more success in the class room regardless of the level of academics.  Is this not logical.  

No, it's not.  If the SCIAC was teaching students how to count jelly beans then I'm sure you would take issue with our incredible number of All-Americans.

[scandihoovian]

You have missed my point entirely.   If that is so the logic dictates they would have more success in the class room regardless of the level of academics.  Is this not logical.

No, it is not logical. 

The stats provided by Oxy Bob state that the SCIAC schools have =/- a 10% higher admissions standard than Central.  Shouldn't they then have 10% more all americans?  They are 10% pickier than Central.  Even if they are 10% tougher academically they should be able to produce the same amount of all americans then.   

What if Oxy is 20-30% tougher?

[DutchFan2004]

Still though, I know for a fact that JC football here in California hurts recruiting in the SCIAC.

As you said in a previous post, we've debated this issue here before without resolution. Perhaps you're right, but what it eventually comes down to is admissions standards, and, let's face it, some of the D-III football factories aren't up to SCIAC snuff.

OxyBob

If you took away the JC's in California, Bubba and the other dolts that major in Recreational Psychology wouldn't have anywhere to go to school.  As much as I'd like to agree that Community College hurts SCIAC sports, I can't.  The small percentage of players that attend CC's with the hopes of playing D1 football that are actually smart enough to get into Oxy, Pomona, Claremont, etc. -- do not have the work ethic to maintain grades at a school that doesn't hand them out with a set of pads.

This mans mother had been a teacher in California as well.  She said that on nice days her attendance was horrible because the kids would skip school to go surfing.  Now, that could be a reflection of the lower level of California kids and the competition for the top level students could be fierce.  

Where did she teach, Bayside High?

Get over it.  Attedance will be down in California when it's sunny.  On the other hand, attendance will be low in Iowa when it's snowing.  Students of all ages look for good reasons to skip class regardless of setting.

You have missed my point entirely.  With the admissions standards set so high by the SCIAC they must have better students according to Oxy Bob.  He is the one with the stats on that.  Having said that the SCIAC must have better students.  If that is so the logic dictates they would have more success in the class room regardless of the level of academics.  Is this not logical.  

No, it's not.  If the SCIAC was teaching students how to count jelly beans then I'm sure you would take issue with our incredible number of All-Americans.

Will take exception with the snow comment.  If it snows hard enough there is no attendance in that school as school is cancelled.  Then they have to make up that day. 

[DutchFan2004]

You have missed my point entirely.   If that is so the logic dictates they would have more success in the class room regardless of the level of academics.  Is this not logical.

No, it is not logical. 

The stats provided by Oxy Bob state that the SCIAC schools have =/- a 10% higher admissions standard than Central.  Shouldn't they then have 10% more all americans?  They are 10% pickier than Central.  Even if they are 10% tougher academically they should be able to produce the same amount of all americans then.   

What if Oxy is 20-30% tougher?

Then they should have 20-30% more all americans as they are 20-30% better students are they not?