FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

If that helps you sleep at night regarding UW-Whitewater, that's fine. Plenty of liberal arts colleges have better football programs, too, though.

[stealth]

OB,
The beauty of being in Pat's house is that he is gracious enough to let us all in for discussion. So if you want exclusivity start your own blog and lock out all that are under your sacred 3.5 GPA. Do I pop in from time to time on the SCIAC, yes because of posters like you , ESC,  Grey Fox, Gig, SaberTooth and others because I respect you all and most often learn things. Can't wait for my dose of stern retort from you. That being said.
As much as I respect your knowledge,dry humor and articulation of your positions, in this particular instance you made the UWW reference not I. My point was a simple statement that any team ranked below the top 5 doesn't in reality have a chance at the football national title in D3 for many reasons. However everyone is still even at this point.  Am I a UWW homer, to some extent yes,  but only from last year, the 3rd try at being a giant killer mentality was just to appealing.  Am I a D3 homer, 100%.  If you want to take the time to slam UWW on academics then by all means do it. I'm sure they are all worried how you perceive them. 10 million strong in Socal and that's all you got to hang your hat on. Who has better GPA's. This is a football blog not a Valedictorian pissing contest.   But fair and balanced swiping from you has never been your strong point. Any hits on Mt.Union, Wesley, the Johnnies, Linfield, Capital, MHB, etc. academic blah , blah, blah,  don't think so with any frequency.  It's your nature to have the last dig. (saving this spot for you to act up)
Now on to more important things like football. Congrat to the preseason all Americans from the SCIAC. Especially Arndt. Being in the trenches and up against what I am sure is a huge pool of candidates nation wide is quite an endorsement of his talents. Punters, well that just means you get allot of punts in per game. Not a good endorsement of being able to get first downs.

It's a simple fact that has proven itself over and over again. Seeing the reality up close for 4 years will serve itself. SCIAC 1 and out or 2 and out if they are lucky.

Speaking of up-close reality...

Freshmen Students in Top Tenth of HS Class
Mudd 93%
Pomona 87%
Claremont 84%
Occidental 57%
Whittier 34%
Pitzer 32%
Redlands 31%
CLU 29%
La Verne 20%
UW-Whitewater 9%

As usual well researched and articulated. But irrelevant to the football discussion.

From time to time you get an uncontrollable urge to wander in here and tell us how great Whitewater is compared to the SCIAC. We're not impressed by UWW's athletic prowess. Whitewater has an enrollment greater than Oxy, Claremont, Mudd, Pomona, Pitzer and Redlands *combined*, and 30% of the freshmen who are accepted at Whitewater had high school GPAs less than 3.0. With those kind of numbers it's no surprise that UWW has a good football team. Actually, with those kind of numbers, Whitewater had better have a good football team.

OxyBob

[Pat Coleman]

Actually, we tend to go more by average yardage than number of punts.

[stealth]

With a minimum amount of punts to get in the pool I assume. If not a 1 punt season for 60 yards means you could be numero uno !! Not a swipe at punters Pat.

Actually, we tend to go more by average yardage than number of punts.

[stealth]

Like atomic clock work.  Thanks allot, a lot, some what or what ever for the punt stat. I knew there had to be a minimum punts per game or season total that had to be met just didn't know it. And where did I diminish Alex's accomplishment  I said that reflects issues with getting first downs. +k to him if I could. 

Congrat to the preseason all Americans from the SCIAC. Especially Arndt. Being in the trenches and up against what I am sure is a huge pool of candidates nation wide is quite an endorsement of his talents. Punters, well that just means you get allot of punts in per game. Not a good endorsement of being able to get first downs.

Last season in 9 games, Alex Groh punted 36 times for 1,652 yards, a 45.9 per punt average (minimum 3.6 punts per game), which was 2.9 yards per punt farther than anyone else. But nice try diminishing his accomplishments.

As for the rest of your rant, I'd like to allot more time to it, but I don't have a lot of time.

OxyBob

[Mr. Ypsi]

Re: the 3.6 punts per game minimum for award consideration.  Clearly unfair to Mount Union punters - over the last five years (72 games) they have punted 2.4 times per game!  (Not that their punters would be candidates for awards anyway - what self-respecting kicker would go for the loneliest job since the Maytag repairman? )

OxyBob, you're not up to your usual logical standards in your swipes at UWW.  Enrollment is somewhat relevant in high school football (though recruiting has diminished its importance in recent years), but is utterly irrelevant in college.  It's not like teams hold open tryouts among the already enrolled student body!  Whether the total enrollment is 1,000 or 50,000 is meaningless.  And academic selectivity is a two-edged sword: while UWW can enroll some players who would not get in to more selective schools, they may also lose out competing for some academically-talented players.

[D O.C.]

                                       Ay! There's the rub.

[Mr. Ypsi]

OB, you're missing my point.  In high school, sports teams are 'drawn from' the enrolled students (except at those schools, especially some privates, who do actively recruit elsewhere).  In college, sports teams are recruited by the coaching staff (subject to getting them through admissions).  Whether the overall enrollment is 1800 or nearly 10,000 is pretty much irrelevant.  Oxy's (or UWW's) football team is NOT 'chosen from' the general student body.  (Generally, they ARE much more a part of the overall student body than are d1 athletes, but that is not their origin.)

If overall enrollment were relevant, NYU would be a perennial powerhouse, and Mount Union and Amherst would never appear in Salem!

[Gray Fox]

Amherst would never appear in Salem!

I hope you are wrong on that.

[scandihoovian]

Clear advantages a school like UWW has over SCIAC schools:

1) Lower admissions standards for that kid with amazing talent that you can't get past the admissions office at a SCIAC school

2) Lower tuition costs for in-state kids who want to give D3 football a shot ("Hey, if it doesn't work out, at least we didn't have to take out a third mortgage")

3) Zero pressure from the administration to recruit kids (regardless of football ability level) to play football in an effort to boost male student enrollment

[Mr. Ypsi]

Clear advantages a school like UWW has over SCIAC schools:

1) Lower admissions standards for that kid with amazing talent that you can't get past the admissions office at a SCIAC school

2) Lower tuition costs for in-state kids who want to give D3 football a shot ("Hey, if it doesn't work out, at least we didn't have to take out a third mortgage")

3) Zero pressure from the administration to recruit kids (regardless of ability level) to play football in an effort to boost male student enrollment

Since I'm a CCIW partisan (all private schools, and go head-to-head against the WIAC vastly more often than SCIAC schools), I'm basically on your side!  But:

1) True (and we see it too), but since even most UWW players will never make a living from football, the upside (if properly pitched) is the educational advantages for those motivated in that direction (and certainly not all good prospects are 'dumb jocks').

2) True, but the sticker-price difference is VASTLY larger than the actual out-of-pocket difference.  For most (not all) students the state school will be cheaper, but not by as much as list prices would suggest.

3) Gender imbalance has become a problem virtually everywhere; if it has reached the point of 'bring us warm male bodies regardless of talent', the SCIAC is in more trouble than I suspect they are in!

and 4) If you're a recruiter, think you could 'sell' winter in SoCal over winter in Wiscy?

[Knightstalker]

kud yew tipe slowah, we steat skul kidz iz not so fast on keepen up.


same stupid argument, different board.

[scandihoovian]

kud yew tipe slowah, we steat skul kidz iz not so fast on keepen up.


same stupid argument, different board.

Yes, KS, that's clearly what I said - it's right there between the lines of my post.  Oh wait, no it's not.

[Mr. Ypsi]

kud yew tipe slowah, we steat skul kidz iz not so fast on keepen up.


same stupid argument, different board.

The chip on your shoulder is totally unnecessary (at least for me).  While I taught mainly at Eastern Michigan, I also taught at 9 other schools - my best (EMU) students would have had 4.0s ANYWHERE, but the point of state schools is to ALSO take students who wouldn't be admitted to (selective) privates.

I'd assume that UWW (and EMU and NJ universities)) admit students (including football players) who would not be admitted at SCIAC (and CCIW) schools - I view that as a difference in mission, not a defect.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

I view that as a difference in mission, not a defect.

He shoots, he scores!  Excellent point well articulated.

kudos