FB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[scandihoovian]

In response to Tooth's call to arms I will post a few very uninformed (I haven't seen a down of SCIAC football yet this season) musings:

1) Why don't the SCIAC teams play APU?  They don't need to, in fact, since APU is NAIA, a win over APU does little for you in terms of your NCAA playoff status, and a loss always hurts.  Additionally, I am fairly sure they offer at least 10-15 football scholarships, and are usually a little bigger/faster than the average SCIAC foe.  I think most coaches would stay away from such an opponent given increased injury risks.

2) I am glad to see the Kingsmen bring one home from up north, but why they had trouble hanging on to the ball in perfect conditions in Thousand Oaks, and then turned around and only coughed it up once in rainy, 50 degree weather in Tacoma, is beyond me...  I am just hoping that the Kingsmen master the art of hanging on to a dry football as well as they did a wet one

3) Redlands has done a lot of good for the conference with big wins over traditionally decent to good teams from quality conferences.  As for their one game contract with Dubuque, well, I think it might be easier for a coach from Iowa to sell recruits on the notion that we travel to places like California, than it would be for a SoCal coach to have his one big annual trip be to Iowa.  And, with apologies to RFB, Bob's research regarding Maynard's discussion of strength of schedule did have a bit of a zing to it 

As always, I am excited for conference play to get underway.  CLU is off this week, and their game with Whittier on 10/4 should give us a much better idea of what both of those teams look like, although I guess we'll get a little more perspective on Whittier after they play Menlo this week, at least maybe relative to Oxy at least.

[CalSon]

I'm confused by Scandi's post about why the SCIAC team don't play APU:

If the SCIAC teams "don't need to" play APU then why do WIAC teams, East Texas Baptist, Whitworth, and Willamette play them all in the past 3 years? 

The SCIAC champ now has an automatic berth into the playoffs, how does playing APU hurt us?  We're not about to get two teams into the playoffs, are we?  WIAC people say there's no way SCIAC would get 2 teams in.

I don't understand the reasoning to spend $15,000 to $20,000 to travel to Washington,  Oregon, Colorado or Texas instead of playing APU locally so students, faculty/staff and parents can watch more of our games.

APU people say that they've always had up to 13 scholarships and SCIAC teams used to play them all the time.  In fact, one APU official told me that a particular SCIAC coach told them that they would always play APU as long as he was at this SCIAC school, and he's still there but not playing APU.

I posed this question to someone from the Northwest Conference as well and their response was that the SCIAC always runs from good competition, that no one in the SCIAC would play them either.

I'm not saying we need to go to the Northwest, but you're having a hard time proving to me why the SCIAC isn't playing APU, if its nothing more than to pad the schedule with easy but expensive wins that none of our fans get to see. 

[Jack Parkman]

CalSon, I will try and make this as easy as possible...

SCIAC= Div. III
APU- NAIA

Those add up to no reason for the SCIAC to play them.  I understand that APU is a very local team and it would seem like a great idea but the SCIAC needs to play other D-III teams.  I can not tell you why the WIAC would feel it is a good idea for them to play APU.  APU has a very odd schedule which includes going to Texas to play D-II teams and getting beat down.  To be honest with you, I really don't see why APU even has football.
The NWC (Linfield) posters will continue to rag on the SCIAC until someone steps up and decides to play Linfield in a home/home series.  I think it would be great to see a rotating schedule between the SCIAC and the NWC so no more teams like Colorado College or Principia are on the schedule.  This isn't D-I where the travel is no big deal money wise.  Spend your money on games that are in your region. 
I like Redlands playing Whitworth (and smoking them), CLU playing PLU every year, CMS playing UPS and so on and so on.  I will get bashed for this but I think Oxy really needs to step up the out of conference games.  I know its been talked abou tplenty before but its my opinion. *I have no idea of contracts between schools.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

I don't understand the reasoning to spend $15,000 to $20,000 to travel to Washington,  Oregon, Colorado or Texas instead of playing APU locally so students, faculty/staff and parents can watch more of our games.

Having a big travel game to Colorado, or Oregon, (as of late) or Texas . . . or maybe someday to Washington . . . is a far greater recruiting draw than another game east on the 210 . . . and it gives the school a chance to draw area alumni to regional event away from the college . . . Oxy's alums tend to gather and reconnect in places like Colorado Springs, or San Francisco, or Portland . . .

That's one of the reasons why . . . lots of parents travel as well.

[scandihoovian]

To Jack and Tooth's replies I would add that SCIAC schools are limited to 9 games.  Once you play your conference schedule and Chapman (as most of the SCIAC schools do, and Chapman is, of course, an in region D3 opponent) that leaves two free games on your schedule.  Most of the SCIAC schools fill those by scheduling "like schools" from the NWC.  Alternating "Home and Homes," like CLU has had with PLU and Willamette are then a nice way to fill the schedule, both because they are D3 in region games and they offer the benefits that Tooth mentioned:  student travel, alumni relations, etc.

I'd imagine that many of the other schools you mention play APU because they need games, and SCIAC teams don't.

Finally, if there's a school that has a legitimate beef about getting ducked by the SCIAC, it's Linfield.  Conference teams have proven their willingness to play just about everyone from the NWC but the Wildcats, which I know is frustrating to the Linfield crowd because their conference has so many non-football members.  I have no special insight as to why this is the case, I just know that its is historically true.  We're willing to play good teams from the NWC, just not Linfield.  Others have proposed something like a NWC-SCIAC showdown at the start of every season (1 v 1, 2 v 2, etc.).  Might be hard to work out logistically, but it sounds like fun to me.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm not saying we need to go to the Northwest, but you're having a hard time proving to me why the SCIAC isn't playing APU, if its nothing more than to pad the schedule with easy but expensive wins that none of our fans get to see. 

The SCIAC has no trouble filling its schedules without APU. The WIAC and ASC and NWC have a lot of trouble.

[Sabretooth Tiger]

I'm still looking for an excuse to get back to Clinkerdaggers in Spokane, though McMinnville would surely be an easier drive/fly combo.  I'd like to see a regular series between Oxy and a team from Oregon or Washington, but it's not my call.  It has to be a team Oxy's coaches are willing to schedule  . . . and that the opposing NWC staff is willing to set as a home/away as well.  All the pieces have to synch up.  I expect that 2009 will yield a new out of conference opponent on Oxy's schedule, but I have no idea who it may be . . . I'd guess it'll be a home game since we only have 4 on Patterson this year.

[D O.C.]

Wouldn't that be a treat to see Linfield play under the lights at Patterson?

Perhaps so, if we could bring couches to sit on in the west end zone. You surely would not expect the likes to nestle on the cement near the drum circle, would you?

[EastCoastStag]

Looking forward to the SCIAC fun down in Menlo this Saturday. OB thanks for the article on the game. Spoke with some players on Sunday and have a little to add to the discussion. At the very least, I think, at least from what I gather, and from how it appears, that despite the loss, the attitudes are pointed in the right direction. Very proud of the Stags for Saturday. Ashton and Larsen are stepping up with leadership. Ship is pointed in the right direction.

[OXY Oswald]

The SCIAC champ now has an automatic berth into the playoffs, how does playing APU hurt us?  We're not about to get two teams into the playoffs, are we?  WIAC people say there's no way SCIAC would get 2 teams in.

Last year going into the final week of the season we were looking at getting 2 teams into the playoffs for the first time (Redlands and Oxy).  Redlands held up their end of the deal, unfortunately the Tigers fell to Whittier in a barn burner -- So Redlands went alone to the playoffs.

I will get bashed for this but I think Oxy really needs to step up the out of conference games.  

I think the majority of the Oxy contingent agrees with you.

[d-train]

The SCIAC has no trouble filling its schedules without APU. The WIAC and ASC and Linfield have a lot of trouble.

Edit

[Jack Parkman]

The SCIAC champ now has an automatic berth into the playoffs, how does playing APU hurt us?  We're not about to get two teams into the playoffs, are we?  WIAC people say there's no way SCIAC would get 2 teams in.

Last year going into the final week of the season we were looking at getting 2 teams into the playoffs for the first time (Redlands and Oxy).  Redlands held up their end of the deal, unfortunately the Tigers fell to Whittier in a barn burner -- So Redlands went alone to the playoffs.

I will get bashed for this but I think Oxy really needs to step up the out of conference games.  

I think the majority of the Oxy contingent agrees with you.

Wasn't it Cal Lu and someone else going if Oxy didn't lose that game to Whittier?

[scandihoovian]

That's

Wasn't it Cal Lu and someone else going if Oxy didn't lose that game to Whittier?

Yes.  If Oxy had beaten Whitter CLU would have received the autobid based on the 3-way tie-breaker.  If a second team was chosen it would have been up to the committee to choose Oxy or Redlands, who would have both had 8-1 records. 

[MonroviaCat]

That's

Wasn't it Cal Lu and someone else going if Oxy didn't lose that game to Whittier?

Yes.  If Oxy had beaten Whitter CLU would have received the autobid based on the 3-way tie-breaker.  If a second team was chosen it would have been up to the committee to choose Oxy or Redlands, who would have both had 8-1 records. 

Or Whitworth

[DBQ1965]

Honest question:

What is the reasoning behind limiting SCIAC schools to 9 games?