FB: Empire 8

[er1948]

True, but they have so much experience back at the skill positions

[tecmobowler]

It's just you.

Losing Robinson and Lang will be tough.

[superman57]

yes and no...tecmo...you can never account for how a team will do after losing two stars like that...but the way I see it fisher is still growing and could be a very dangerous team in the nation in 5-10 years...they just need to ride this success

[Tags]

I think Jackson & Nowicki are a lot better than people may think. We'll see them come into their own with Kramer at the helm next year for the full season, and working together in the offseason will help a great deal as well.

They'll pass more, using said receivers and the TE's as well. They'll be key to next year's ability to move the ball. Reile will be back I'm sure, he wants his shot at trying to show everyone what he can do as the feature back without Robinson for a year. I think he'll be good for a 1,000 yd season with 10-12 TD's before it's all said and done.

They'll be tough next year, but not as good as this 2006 team was. They're losing too much leadership, and not too mention pure talent. I think they'll still make a strong run for the NCAA's though.

[dewcrew88]

Fine...Then answer me this...

Which conference will have a better season next year from top to bottom - The E8 or the LL?  For that matter, in retrospect, which conference had a better season this year, top to bottom?  Please explain your answers in the well-thought out method we've all grown to enjoy the past few weeks.

Tough question to ask as the majority of teams are probably about even, but Id rather rank them like this in tiers.....

tier 1

SJF----Ill leave them by themselves and give them the benefit of the doubt due to them being clearly the best team last year.

tier 2 (In no particular order, but Id put Springfield slightly above all the teams and Alfred slightly below all the teams)

Springfield
Union
RPI
Hobart
Ithaca
Alfred

tier 3
Rochester (could put them next to Alfred actually

tier 4
SLU

tier 5
Norwich
Hartwick
Utica
Merchant Marine

So what's the prognosis you come with after the Tiering?

Dont know

E8 is a little top heavy, while the LL is a little bottom heavy.  But let me really rank them from top to bottom in my opinion.....

1-SJF
2-SC
3-Union
4-Hobart
5-Ithaca
6-RPI
7-Aflred
8-Rochester
9-SLU
10-Hartwick
11-Merchant Marine
12-Norwich
13-Utica

(you could argue Ithaca v RPI, and Norwich v Utica)

Lets say you gave each team a point based on their ranking. (RPI=6, Utica=13)

Add them up and divide by the number of teams in their conference and the lowest number is the better conference.

E8-7.14
LL-6.83

So according to the JU formula for ranking conferences, the LL will be stronger.

How can you put Utica at the bottom? That doesn't make a lot of sense, despite their 3-7 record this season. You could put them at 10, which would be IMHO, a better spot for them in the rankings you list. I believe they could beat Kings Point, too.

[sjfcards]

Super- not sure about James, he could take some grad classes maybe??  Is it just me, or do you other SJF guys see next years team better than this 2006 bunch???

I think it will be tough to be much better than this years team. With that being said I think they can be just as good. I think the return of Kramer will be huge if he plays anything like he did this year. Reile is a capable backup to Robinson and has carried the load in the past (He is no Robinson, but not many people are, he is very good). The WR's were the "weakness" in the offense this year, but they played much better at the end of the year, and extremely well in the playoffs.

Micah Norton and Stepnick back on Defense will help along with Flagler. Finding someone to replace Lang will be tough, he is a tackling machine. However, that is what recruiting is for, and if Fisher can not find a talented recruits after this year they should get rid of the Football program all together.

I believe that Fisher is still in the building process and will continue to get better and better over the next few years. I am not sure if they will be better than 4th in the country next year (see final rankings), but I strongly believe that Fisher will be the team to replace Rowan as the new "Beast of the East"


Or they may suck...who knows...

[Jonny Utah]

1-SJF
2-SC
3-Union
4-Hobart
5-Ithaca
6-RPI
7-Aflred
8-Rochester
9-SLU
10-Hartwick
11-Merchant Marine
12-Norwich
13-Utica

(you could argue Ithaca v RPI, and Norwich v Utica)

*****************************************

Budcrew,

well like I said, you could flip them and Norwich, but Merchant Marine beat Kean, Coast Guard and WPI, three quality wins that Utica certainty doesnt have.

Who else are you going to put them over?

Hartwick--L 42-20
SLU----A winning record team with a win vs RPI

Im sure they could beat all of those teams.  But Im not going to rank them ahead of any of them except for maybe norwich....

[Jonny Utah]

Dam,

I totally forgot WPI in my offical ranking index!!

Time for a recount!!!!!!!

[Jonny Utah]

JU rankings revisited (Sorry WPI!!!)


***********************
1-SJF
2-Springfield
3-Union
4-Hobart
5-Ithaca
6-RPI
7-Alfred
8-Rochester
9-SLU
10-Hartwick
11-Merchant Marine
12-WPI
13-Utica
14-Norwich

************************

Due to the head to head win and similar schedule, Im going to switch Utica and Norwich

But Im still putting WPI ahead of both due to scores vs common opponents.

[dewcrew88]

JU rankings revisited (Sorry WPI!!!)


***********************
1-SJF
2-Springfield
3-Union
4-Hobart
5-Ithaca
6-RPI
7-Alfred
8-Rochester
9-SLU
10-Hartwick
11-Merchant Marine
12-WPI
13-Utica
14-Norwich

************************

Due to the head to head win and similar schedule, Im going to switch Utica and Norwich

But Im still putting WPI ahead of both due to scores vs common opponents.

JU,
Going to have to disagree with you again.

WPI and Utica had three common opponents, RPI, Mt. Ida, and Becker.
Both schools went 2-1 to those three, losing against RPI and winning the other 2.

WPI was shutout 26-0 by LL opponent RPI (in fact, WPI didn't win a single league game), but beat Ida 46-20 and Becker 52-16.
Utica scored against the Engineers, losing 34-10 and won against Mt. Ida 21-9 and Becker 20-10. Just because WPI scored more points in those two games, I don't see how WPI (with a league record of 0-6) can be ahead of UC.

[Jonny Utah]

Well WPI did lose to Union by one point and to Hobart by 5 points.  Utica didnt even come close to anyone else they played (you dont want to count Husson do you?)

And I would still rank WPI over Utica based on the three common opponents.

Becker was horrible.  WPI smoked them 52-10 while Utica won 20-10

Mt Ida was bad too.  WPI smoked them 46-20 while Utica won 21-9

The RPI games were 2 points apart, granted Utica scored against them.

Like I said in my first post where I ranked them in tiers.  Id group them all together there.  But if you had to pick theres no way you can put Utica over WPI.  thats not saying WPI would win 9 out of 10 games if they played, but if you had to rank teams like I did, WPI deserves the higher ranking.

[Tags]

Bud is battling for more Mooseneer respect - can't blame him for that JU

[JQV]

Good football discussion last night night crew.  +k to all.

Three quick thoughts:

1) JU very scientific analysis.  I agree with how you break down the respective conferences. Although I think Fisher won't win the E8 next year.

2) Fisher's offense:  The WR's were pretty average but generally an unknown commodity.  A star can be replaced but it takes at least a few games, if not an entire season.  Given no preseason, Fisher will probably eventually hit their stride and their offense will be very good.  I just don't think it will happen before they travel to Butterfield.  IC's offense never was quite as good as the 2005 edition but they did hit a stride midway through the season when they realized Felicetti wasn't coming back.

3) Kramer is the big question mark to me, not SOWB (Reille's new E8 Nation nickname).  He was very efficient this year but, how will he look without the threat of Robinson?  He could look the same, he could be Bruce Gradkowski.  We'll see.

[superman57]

Jose I would agree with you but they are returning a very very good running back in SOWB and Kramer has the ability to be a game breaker....espesicly if they get the WR's going even mediocre

[boobyhasgameyo]

Personally I think the E8 will end up with co-champions yet again.  It just feels like all the teams will have at least one in conference loss before the season is over.  As for Fisher at Butterfield I really think the offense will be fine, people have argued for years the good running backs at Fisher are a product of the system much like the Denver Broncos, so I guess we will really find out this year.  Actually the more I think about it, I think the dropoff will be minimal for Fisher's team, and the game at Ithaca should be a good one. 



you guys see all that minimal dropoff talk i was just mentioning, this is my personal process to deal with Robinson being gone... Clearly I don't believe it yet, but if I keep telling myself we will be absolutely fine, I will eventually believe it for real.