FB: Empire 8

[maxpower]

Caz gets this morning's gold star.  IC's last loss at Butterfield to a NY Private College was in 1983 and the loss did come to St. Lawrence.

Can't find any more qualifiers to put on that statement? Losses at home to private schools in the state of New York ... even MLB doesn't break down stats like that.

MIOH gets the smackdown, but I appreciate this stat, Pat. (rhyme). I think it is meant to single out a lot of teams that Ithaca plays a lot, e.g. Fisher and Alfred.

Also, I would like to submit this post as the one from farthest away in PP history, since I am in Stuttgart, Germany. I'm sure someone can top that, but for now I'd like to say it's me. Also, this was more difficult to write than a normal post, because the y and z are switched on all the keyboards here.

When does camp start?

[realistic]

Also, I would like to submit this post as the one from farthest away in PP history, since I am in Stuttgart, Germany. I'm sure someone can top that, but for now I'd like to say it's me. Also, this was more difficult to write than a normal post, because the y and z are switched on all the keyboards here.

Max - That may put you in the top ten of PP...but I know Kubiak from WIAC posts semi-regularly from Iraq and OzJohnny posts in season from the Land Down Under.

Regardless - +K for the PP commitment.  But go have some good german lager for all of us stuck at work.

[gobombers15]

The concept of the Bombers finishing as low as 4th in the league is really hard to stomach, but I guess it's a definite possibility. 

If someone with an old Bomber media guide could confirm for me whether it was 1981 or 1983 the last time an in-state private school won at Butterfield (it was St. Lawrence, I'm 99% positive) I'd be much obliged.  I feel pretty good about the Bombers going at least 1-1 against the Saxons and Cards.

I'm with ya, Caz. That's the first thing that hit me when I saw the preseason poll. I'm not sure that after going almost 25 years with no home losses against NY state private schools, Ithaca will lose two in one season. That is certainly the implied inference of that poll. If this was the preaseason poll in an even-numbered year (where IC plays all their difficult games on the road), I think there'd be less surprise.

SJF is defending champ with the run through the NCAAs and has enough coming back to not have any argument that they aren't the Preseason #1.  SC had the most productive offense and the offensive POY returning, same deal...no argument for not #2. 

I disagree. I think SC has a very good argument of their own that they should be #1 in the conference. Let's look at the facts. Fisher loses it's All-American RB that was a very significant part of their offense. Reile has been solid in the past but, with all due respect, has not approached what Robinson can and did do; Reile's numbers against Ithaca would be Exhibit A. Fisher will still be fine on offense but I don't think we can expect the same firepower from the Cards given that loss and the fact that they probably don't put up the same offensive numbers going to Butterfield and Springfield. Plus, as has been mentioned ad nauseum, Fisher has never defeated Ithaca at Butterfield. I think that factor alone (even without the preceding factors) is enough to put some argument in there.

On the SC side of it, they return the top offensive player in the conference, and maybe even the country, in Sharpe. They get both Ithaca and Fisher at their place this year. The team that is "inarguably" the top team in the league (Fisher) lost at home to SC last year before earning a split with a playoff victory over the Pride. And can we put the lid on the whole "Everyone has figured out Springfield's gimmick offense" argument. What a load of garbage that is. That team has been running the same offense forever and they're still putting 50-spot's up against good defenses (see Fisher regular season game last year).  At points over the last eight seasons it's looked like teams have started figuring out their offense, only to have SC rebound and put up a crooked number on the teams that supposedly knew what was coming at them. That's the beauty of their offensive system: you know what they're coming with but you can't stop it on every play. Look at their point outputs against IC since '99: 42, 55, 16, 20, 51, 7, 28, 7.  We had some great defenses during those years, including some amazing players in each unit. Even as an Ithaca fan, I'd never argue that the Bombers have that offense figured out. Fisher fans definitely can't make that argument, either.

Is Fisher the best team on paper going into the season? Probably. Is there no argument whatsoever? There definitely is an argument, at least in my opinion. I think Fisher fans will always cite the SC playoff game this year and give it more weight than the regular season game. I'm on the other end. As Jose mentioned, SC's recent history shows them choking in playoff games (especially at home). The regular season game is what decides this conference. I'm going on record saying that I think SC beats Fisher during the regular season this year.

I won't even attempt my own "this is how they'll finish" poll. This year is going to be ridiculous. If you told me any combination of how IC would do against Fish/SC/AU, I'd probably think it's plausible. We just don't know. That can be said for most of the conference. Should be a great year.

[realistic]

On the SC side of it, they return the top offensive player in the conference, and maybe even the country, in Sharpe. They get both Ithaca and Fisher at their place this year. The team that is "inarguably" the top team in the league (Fisher) lost at home to SC last year before earning a split with a playoff victory over the Pride. And can we put the lid on the whole "Everyone has figured out Springfield's gimmick offense" argument. What a load of garbage that is. That team has been running the same offense forever and they're still putting 50-spot's up against good defenses (see Fisher regular season game last year).  At points over the last eight seasons it's looked like teams have started figuring out their offense, only to have SC rebound and put up a crooked number on the teams that supposedly knew what was coming at them. That's the beauty of their offensive system: you know what they're coming with but you can't stop it on every play. Look at their point outputs against IC since '99: 42, 55, 16, 20, 51, 7, 28, 7.  We had some great defenses during those years, including some amazing players in each unit. Even as an Ithaca fan, I'd never argue that the Bombers have that offense figured out. Fisher fans definitely can't make that argument, either.

I agree with all of that.  I have been making that argument about SC all summer.  IC has faced them more than anyone in the league and when they are clicking (and usually at home) you better be ready to put up 50 points to win even with a good D.

I think it is gonna be a mess in conference this year as well.  Theres probably even a good chance of the E8 beating each other up all season and only getting one bid.  However, I still think you gotta have SJF 1 and SC 2 in any preseason poll.

[theicdubbz]

lets assume that all 4 top E8 schools finish tied for the championship at 8-2.  uhm, then what happens for playoffs?   is it to early to be talking playoffs?

[JQV]

Caz gets this morning's gold star.  IC's last loss at Butterfield to a NY Private College was in 1983 and the loss did come to St. Lawrence.

Can't find any more qualifiers to put on that statement? Losses at home to private schools in the state of New York ... even MLB doesn't break down stats like that.

If this were the PAC and the Conference Formerly Known as the PAC I would defend the note on the "similarly minded institutions" argument.  But we aren't the PAC and I think that argument smacks of elitism.

The note does, at the very least, cover the vast majority of IC's opponents over the last 30 years.

[Tags]

Can anyone shut down SC's offense? No, definitely not - Can teams contain it? Yes. Fisher showed it during the NCAA's last year in Springfield, and IC showed it during their meeting last year as well - I watched that game, and although the field was sloppy, IC shut them down pretty well most of the game.

I'm not sure you have to put up 40-50 pts, I think you just need 21-30 and you can win.

This is all assuming you have a good enough defense to even contain them of course.

[superman57]

Ok I want to challenge the fact that juvon has won any big games at all... he had a 10-0 lead at fisher and sucked a big egg in the second half...got beat by Alfred in a must win... and lost the biggest game of the season to Cortland...the only win was  a home game against Springfield where I believe the D won that game not the O

[RunningRobby25]

I'm with Tags on this one...
Not to be making excuses for last year's loss at home to the Pride, but we were missing quite a bit of our defense including pre-season All-American Steve Stepnick who is was our main run stopper in the playoff game, and Greg "The Pyz" (I won't even try to spell his last name...4 years later and rooming with him for Freshman year and I still haven't figured it out) was out as well.

What I'm saying is those are 2 huge components that we missed, and yes Sharpe still did have a great game in the playoffs against us but it was nothing like he was doing the rest of the year against mediocre defenses.

I haven't done any scouting for this season, but I feel that if SC has their fullback back, with Sharpe they will still be in the top 2 or 3, it's their defense that worries me... their best defense is keeping the offense on the field...

[Tags]

Ok I want to challenge the fact that juvon has won any big games at all... he had a 10-0 lead at fisher and sucked a big egg in the second half...got beat by Alfred in a must win... and lost the biggest game of the season to Cortland...the only win was  a home game against Springfield where I believe the D won that game not the O

I don't think the IC boys will disagree with you 57. I think that is what they've been saying all along - they don't know what to expect out of him, and they need him to win the big game to solidify himself & make the team a contender.

I don't think any of them have said he's won big games.

[superman57]

I think I agree with parts of just about everyone's posts on the Preseason poll. 

heres the thing... Do I think IC will finish 4th in the E8 at the end of the season?  No.  Do I think they deserve to be 4th in a preseason poll?  Yes.

SJF is defending champ with the run through the NCAAs and has enough coming back to not have any argument that they aren't the Preseason #1.  SC had the most productive offense and the offensive POY returning, same deal...no argument for not #2.  AU has a great QB returning and other good offensive weapons.  IC has an unproven QB but won some big games last year and lost some.Bottom line, that is the way is stands now and IC has to prove they belong higher than 4.

Personally I see the league ending up with IC, SJF, AU, SC....the rest.  Either way, we don't have to wait too long.  7 Saterdays 'til the showdown at Butterfield.

there it is...

[Tags]

I think I agree with parts of just about everyone's posts on the Preseason poll. 

heres the thing... Do I think IC will finish 4th in the E8 at the end of the season?  No.  Do I think they deserve to be 4th in a preseason poll?  Yes.

SJF is defending champ with the run through the NCAAs and has enough coming back to not have any argument that they aren't the Preseason #1.  SC had the most productive offense and the offensive POY returning, same deal...no argument for not #2.  AU has a great QB returning and other good offensive weapons.  IC has an unproven QB but won some big games last year and lost some.Bottom line, that is the way is stands now and IC has to prove they belong higher than 4.

Personally I see the league ending up with IC, SJF, AU, SC....the rest.  Either way, we don't have to wait too long.  7 Saterdays 'til the showdown at Butterfield.

there it is...

Ah, I stand corrected!

[realistic]

I think you are splitting hairs a bit there since I said Unproven and Won some and Lost some but if you are looking to nitpick, then fine.  Every one of us knows he has to do a lot more this year than he has done in that past.

further, my point was being made for SJF #1, SC #2, AU #3 and IC #4.  Not really a sterling appraisal from me... maybe the SJF guys are having too much Buffalo Bills this summer.  The insecure sports fan looks for slights and arguments like that.  I was making a point that MY team should be ranked 4th.

[maninorangehat]

IC has an unproven QB but won some big games...

MIOH will just clean up that statement to satisfy Realistic & SMAN57

Proof of Big Game W's:

High School: A 2004 graduate of Dobbs Ferry High School, Juvan was coached by Frank Violante. He helped Dobbs Ferry win two state titles, and four section and league championships. He was all-league, all-section and all-state and was the MVP of the state championship game as a senior.

[superman57]

IC has an unproven QB but won some big games...

MIOH will just clean up that statement to satisfy Realistic & SMAN57

Proof of Big Game W's:

High School: A 2004 graduate of Dobbs Ferry High School, Juvan was coached by Frank Violante. He helped Dobbs Ferry win two state titles, and four section and league championships. He was all-league, all-section and all-state and was the MVP of the state championship game as a senior.

wow...ok was class is dobbs ferry c or d... but +k for trying