FB: Empire 8

Tags · August 08, 2007, 02:11:10 PM

Quote from: maninorangehat on August 08, 2007, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: realistic on August 08, 2007, 10:07:36 AM
IC has an unproven QB but won some big games...

MIOH will just clean up that statement to satisfy Realistic & SMAN57

Proof of Big Game W's:

High School: A 2004 graduate of Dobbs Ferry High School, Juvan was coached by Frank Violante. He helped Dobbs Ferry win two state titles, and four section and league championships. He was all-league, all-section and all-state and was the MVP of the state championship game as a senior.

I think those are fantastic things, but in my opinion what is more relevant is how he is performing at IC.

gobombers15 · August 08, 2007, 02:21:00 PM

Maybe it was wrong for Realistic to use the plural there. He did win A big game. Sure, the D played great against Springfield but Juvan had an efficient game given the weather conditions. Lest we forget that Springfield was the AQ winner from this conference last year. I think that fact has been too frequently forgotten by many who've been caught up in Fisher's captivating ride last season.

superman57 · August 08, 2007, 02:26:11 PM

Gb15, real and all Ithaca posters...

Juvan did not will the springfield game...you could have put any qb in the e8 in that game and I still believe that IC would have won because they figured out how to stop the option run...

realistic · August 08, 2007, 02:33:28 PM

Superman - I don't really know what you are looking for here. SJF went to the semis last year. They got all the props for that. They are ranked in the top ten nationallly, top in the E8 coaches poll and ranked top in the east region PP *Official* 2007 Preseason poll (including by me).

I was stating why I thought SJF was #1, SC #2, AU #3 and IC #4 leading into the season. You turned that into some debate on whether Juvan has won any big games. 1st of all, IC won a couple big games last season and lost a couple thats what I said. We are all waiting to see what he can do this season to see if IC can be back on top. I don't really see how much more we can praise SJF here. Should we pick IC last in the E8? Should we just say no one has a shot because SJF went to the semi's last year? As I said before I don't whether you are just looking for random fights or if you feel irrationally slighted by all non SJF poster.

And in my opinion it matters only that IC won the SC game.

superman57 · August 08, 2007, 02:36:03 PM

no I'm calling out a conversation that you made...that I don't feel is true..just suck it up say I made a mistake and move on

Tags · August 08, 2007, 02:58:07 PM

Quote from: Superman57 on August 08, 2007, 02:36:03 PM
no I'm calling out a conversation that you made...that I don't feel is true..just suck it up say I made a mistake and move on

I don't think it's that big a deal 57 - all the guy said was that he felt Juvan won a big game. He justified it by saying he feels Juvan can be credited for helping them win vs. Springfield. Whether you agree with that or not, I think that's a pretty reasonable thing for him to say.

RE: Fisher guys looking for more praise

I don't think that's the case with most people. Some are just more vocal & extreme than others - can't lump everyone in the same boat.

realistic · August 08, 2007, 03:01:23 PM

true Tags. Superman was in the forefront of my thoughts so I did probably lump people together.

He's entitled to his opinion and I to mine. I am not about to say I was wrong especially because I said the was an unproven QB and IC had won and lost big games last season.

Either way - you can tell camps are about to start because the camraderie of the summer months seems to be wearing down.

maninorangehat · August 08, 2007, 03:05:29 PM

Quote from: Tags on August 08, 2007, 02:58:07 PM

can't lump everyone in the same boat.

Unless your in a boat on Lake Minnetonka with Viking players and their "friends"... MIOH doesn't think many E8 Posters would be upset if they were all lumped into that boat.

Tags · August 08, 2007, 03:07:39 PM

Quote from: maninorangehat on August 08, 2007, 03:05:29 PM
Quote from: Tags on August 08, 2007, 02:58:07 PM

can't lump everyone in the same boat.

Unless your in a boat on Lake Minnetonka with Viking players and their "friends"... MIOH doesn't think many E8 Posters would be upset if they were all lumped into that boat.

A real life love boat 8)

superman57 · August 08, 2007, 03:22:18 PM

sorry real, a little bored at work... I was reading through all posts at once and was a little annoyed and took you for your post...

superman57 · August 08, 2007, 03:27:55 PM

and I'm not looking for anymore credit for Fisher... Fisher is getting more credit than I think they deseerve...I think it is going to be harder to replace Robby than what most people think...and I also think I combined the post made by dubbz and your post where Dubbz predicted Ithaca would run over every body...

I see IC/Fisher being a real toss up, but I see fisher beating Springfield and AU...

gobombers15 · August 08, 2007, 03:29:14 PM

Quote from: Superman57 on August 08, 2007, 02:36:03 PM
no I'm calling out a conversation that you made...that I don't feel is true..just suck it up say I made a mistake and move on

Quote from: Superman57 on August 08, 2007, 02:26:11 PM
Gb15, real and all Ithaca posters...

Juvan did not will the springfield game...you could have put any qb in the e8 in that game and I still believe that IC would have won because they figured out how to stop the option run...

I'm not sure if you're calling me out or what your deal is, to be honest. I agree with you a lot of the time (though not lately, apparently), especially on the basketball boards, but it seems like you have some bone to pick with Juvan. I'm not, nor is any Ithaca fan, saying that Juvan singlehandedly won the Springfield game. However, you can't go out and make a blanket statement like "Juvan hasn't won a big game at Ithaca" then go pick and choose which games you consider to be big games. Then, after people point out that he was the winning QB and turned in an efficient performance (10-13, 105 yds, zero turnovers in the cold/rain/mud) in a game against the conference champ, come on here and say that Ithaca won because of their defense or that any E8 QB could have won that day. I also have the sneaking suspicion that you'd count the Fisher, Cortland and Alfred games as games Juvan "lost", even though we could come up with a host of other reasons for why Ithaca lost those games (couldn't stop Robinson in the second half, couldn't stop Cortland's 8th string QB or whatever string he was, etc.).

The bottom line is that football isn't golf or tennis, individual sports where winning or losing comes down to one person's performance. I'd submit that QB's at this level can't win games singlehandedly. They need help from their RB, O-Line, WR's, and sometimes a bit of luck.

As has been mentioned by 99.5% of the Ithaca posters, we all want more and expect more out of Juvan this year. I don't think you'll find one poster who is completely satisfied by what they saw from him last season. Hell, I don't think Juvan would say he was satisfied with his performance. A month away, I think things are getting a little testy and nitpicky in here. I'm mad at myself for wasting 5 minutes writing this thing.

superman57 · August 08, 2007, 03:37:10 PM

Ok here goes big games... Fisher, Alfred, Cortland, Springfield... Juvan was 10-13 for 115 yards... It was a good game for him but in no way or means did he win the game... Jamie Donovan and the D won that game...

I consider winning a game as in your team would have lost if ou did not play and I don't think IC would have lost that game if Juvon had not played... I'm not sold on him as much as IC posters are...

realistic · August 08, 2007, 03:38:22 PM

Quote from: Superman57 on August 08, 2007, 03:27:55 PM
and I'm not looking for anymore credit for Fisher... Fisher is getting more credit than I think they deseerve...I think it is going to be harder to replace Robby than what most people think...and I also think I combined the post made by dubbz and your post where Dubbz predicted Ithaca would run over every body...

I see IC/Fisher being a real toss up, but I see fisher beating Springfield and AU...

no worries. As I said, It's kindof nice to see because it means we are getting close. 12 Days 'til kickoff come out. Also - I am really pumped to see that the IC/SJF game is so early. I am pumped because I think I will be there for a great game, September is an awesome time to visit ithaca and I am also glad because it gives a pulse to the league early and also has little chance of being really affected by the weather.

As for SJF/IC/SC/AU - I am not as confident because no one has played yet. Unfortunetly the pessimist (realist?) in me thinks theres a good chance of some scenario where each of the top four loses twice. What a mess that could be. But we are a long way from there.

I don't know if it's being signed up for 3 fantasy leagues, the start of NFL and D-I camps or my desire to have this 95 and humid weather gone but I am fired up for football....

realistic · August 08, 2007, 03:41:43 PM

Quote from: Superman57 on August 08, 2007, 03:37:10 PM
Ok here goes big games... Fisher, Alfred, Cortland, Springfield... Juvan was 10-13 for 115 yards... It was a good game for him but in no way or means did he win the game... Jamie Donovan and the D won that game...

I consider winning a game as in your team would have lost if ou did not play and I don't think IC would have lost that game if Juvon had not played... I'm not sold on him as much as IC posters are...

OK - now I know I am getting a little nitpicky here too...but who is "sold" on him?

Every one of us has repeatedly said he needs to improve for IC to do well this season. Maybe we should be using *potential* or something here but I am pretty sure no one has been "sold"