FB: Empire 8

[theoriginalupstate]

Stat of the game yesterday.....

Fisher finished the game with 208-50 advantage in yards rushing.  The Cardinals also converted on 10-of-17 third downs, while Ithaca was 3-for-12.

[theoriginalupstate]

Big Poppa PC, do you happen to know when the SJF/IC is going to make it to the archive?

[Jonny Utah]

Not that anyone asked me but . . .

Mt. Union is a juggernaut that just rolls over its own league most years if not all and then romps through the first couple of rounds of the playoffs.

I have been down this road before and been told all sorts of absurd things about the lack of D2 schools in Ohio, blah, blah, blah.

They could compete against the Pennsylvania schools like Slippery Rock, Bloomsburg, Kutztown etc for competition in their approximate area.

There is no doubt they are a fantastic program, but with few notable exceptions, they generally are responsible for the OAC's phenomenal winning percentage in the playoffs. 

What surprises me is the relative silence from D3 football asking them to move to another level. 

There is very little surprise each year other than the margin of victory they run up on some of their OAC opponents.

But like I said, nobody asked me.

ATB

Ill take a page out of Frank Ubiles book and say that if the OAC teams have a problem with MUC, then just leave the league.  Its a small school that doesnt belong d2 or 1-AA unless they want to move up.  Its up to the coaches at the other schools to step it up and get better teams.

[section13raiderfan]

Not that anyone asked me but . . .

Mt. Union is a juggernaut that just rolls over its own league most years if not all and then romps through the first couple of rounds of the playoffs.

There is no doubt they are a fantastic program, but with few notable exceptions, they generally are responsible for the OAC's phenomenal winning percentage in the playoffs. 

What surprises me is the relative silence from D3 football asking them to move to another level. 



ATB

Ohio does indeed have D2 programs. And they are stocked with some very good players who "stepped down" form D1 programs. However they all less successful and well known than THE OHIO STATE or MOUNT UNION programs.

As for MUC rolling over their conference rivals. The OAC has its good teams and its struggling teams just like anybody else. Despite not beating MUC recently, teams such as Capital, John Carroll, Baldwin Wallace and Ohio Northern have indeed brought well coached and talented teams into the contests and have proven themselves worthy competitors. Ohio Northern beat MUC 2 years ago. BW usually plays one half of inspired football, then tires out at the end due to lack of team depth. Capital is usually VERY competitive with anyone...even MUC. Ohio Northern is very good and only going to get better. John Carroll plays the game of its life against MUC every year, then seems to lose focus afterward. Any time these teams play outside of their conference they are usually favored. That speaks for the quality of their football. Preparing to play MUC only makes them stronger.

There are no provisions for forcing a team  to moveup to another level in the NCAA bylaws. Mount Union has been D3 for 100 years. Its who they are and who they always have been. Not always this successful....but have always been.

True MUC is mostly responsible for the OACs record in the playoffs. But if the other OAC qualifying teams COULD avoid playing MUC in the early rounds of the playoffs, the record would only be better. Honestly, Capital would have been very competitive in the STAGG BOWL Some Ohio Northern teams were tougher to beat than a couple of STAGG BOWL opponents IMHO. The tournament set up requires them to play MUC early, or else they would go deeper into the tournament also.

Your best chance of beating MUC is to schedule them first game of the season. Not too many have the courage to try it though. If you lose that first one..at least you have another chance to play them later.   In the tourny....its one and done.

[ptomback]

The IC/SJF game yesterday was the beginning of a change of power in D3 football in NYS.  IC looked terrible yesterday and that was essentially their season after a loss the previous week to Hartwick.  The loss of 2 GREAT coordinators is finally catching up with IC.  It's no coincidence that the offense struggled last year without Angelico and this year is much of the same.  Defensively, well when your stuck on the field for all that time thanks to the 3 and outs your offense is giving you it makes it tough.  SJF didn't have a player the caliber of the Hartwick QB and yet we still get 30+ points dumped us!  I'm not sure where this team is headed, but with Brockport, Alfred, and Springfield still left on the schedule things don't look good.  If the coaching staff couldn't get the boys up for yesterdays game how can we expect them to come out strong the rest of the way.  In my opinion were seeing Welch in a situation were maybe he is only as good as the coaches around him, and without Angelico and Raymond were NOT THAT GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!             

[sjfcards]

pat I agree...but Alfred has really beating teams...and they will in the end be hurt by the rankings...I have no issue with your rankings because in fact I think you guys do a great job...but as in DI there should be no rankings untill a couple of weeks in that way we are able to see through teams like springfield and Wilkes and are able to give teams like Montclair state and Alfred the love they deserve

I do agree that polls should not start for a few weeks into the season. It really gets the teams that are faking it out of the running for the high rankings. However, the nice thing about DIII is that in the end the rankings do not make that big of an impact. If a team wins the AQ for their conference then they have a chance to play for the national Championship. The playoff system really allows the rankings to work themselves out in the end. By week 9, or 10 the legitimate teams are in, and the jokers are out.

In contrast, DI has no playoff system. So if a team like AU went undefeated they would  have no chance of playing in the national championship game. They would have too far to climb, and too many teams would have to lose (see Auburn a few years ago...undefeated in the SEC, and does not get in).

AU could be hurt by the rankings if it came down to an at large bid, but at least it would be against a team that has relatively the same resume...not one that was put there by the rankings.

[SJFF82]

Not that anyone asked me but . . .

Mt. Union is a juggernaut that just rolls over its own league most years if not all and then romps through the first couple of rounds of the playoffs.

There is no doubt they are a fantastic program, but with few notable exceptions, they generally are responsible for the OAC's phenomenal winning percentage in the playoffs. 

What surprises me is the relative silence from D3 football asking them to move to another level. 



ATB

Ohio does indeed have D2 programs. And they are stocked with some very good players who "stepped down" form D1 programs. However they all less successful and well known than THE OHIO STATE or MOUNT UNION programs.

As for MUC rolling over their conference rivals. The OAC has its good teams and its struggling teams just like anybody else. Despite not beating MUC recently, teams such as Capital, John Carroll, Baldwin Wallace and Ohio Northern have indeed brought well coached and talented teams into the contests and have proven themselves worthy competitors. Ohio Northern beat MUC 2 years ago. BW usually plays one half of inspired football, then tires out at the end due to lack of team depth. Capital is usually VERY competitive with anyone...even MUC. Ohio Northern is very good and only going to get better. John Carroll plays the game of its life against MUC every year, then seems to lose focus afterward. Any time these teams play outside of their conference they are usually favored. That speaks for the quality of their football. Preparing to play MUC only makes them stronger.

There are no provisions for forcing a team  to moveup to another level in the NCAA bylaws. Mount Union has been D3 for 100 years. Its who they are and who they always have been. Not always this successful....but have always been.

True MUC is mostly responsible for the OACs record in the playoffs. But if the other OAC qualifying teams COULD avoid playing MUC in the early rounds of the playoffs, the record would only be better. Honestly, Capital would have been very competitive in the STAGG BOWL Some Ohio Northern teams were tougher to beat than a couple of STAGG BOWL opponents IMHO. The tournament set up requires them to play MUC early, or else they would go deeper into the tournament also.

Your best chance of beating MUC is to schedule them first game of the season. Not too many have the courage to try it though. If you lose that first one..at least you have another chance to play them later.   In the tourny....its one and done.

Your "Week 1" theory will be tested next September...

[sjfcards]

The IC/SJF game yesterday was the beginning of a change of power in D3 football in NYS.  IC looked terrible yesterday and that was essentially their season after a loss the previous week to Hartwick.  The loss of 2 GREAT coordinators is finally catching up with IC.  It's no coincidence that the offense struggled last year without Angelico and this year is much of the same.  Defensively, well when your stuck on the field for all that time thanks to the 3 and outs your offense is giving you it makes it tough.  SJF didn't have a player the caliber of the Hartwick QB and yet we still get 30+ points dumped us!  I'm not sure where this team is headed, but with Brockport, Alfred, and Springfield still left on the schedule things don't look good.  If the coaching staff couldn't get the boys up for yesterdays game how can we expect them to come out strong the rest of the way.  In my opinion were seeing Welch in a situation were maybe he is only as good as the coaches around him, and without Angelico and Raymond were NOT THAT GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!             

I think the change of power has been happening for a few years. IC has had a slow erosion of talent and dominance for a few years. Meanwhile Fisher has been getting better and better since 2001 (3-7, 6-4, 8-3, 10-2, 8-3, 12-2), because of that Fisher is starting to become more of the power in upstate football (won 3 of the last 4 against IC). However, during that time it is not like other teams have not risen and fallen. Buff State and Brockport come to mind as teams that were at the top, and they have dropped.

I am sure IC will be back. This year may be a little down, but good programs come back. I will say that I think Fisher has a legitimate chance to become a power in upstate for the long haul. They have great recruiting area, great facilities, and now a winning program. Since Growney Stadium was built, the program has gotten better and better. I think Fisher is here to stay, and I can not wait for the future battles between IC and SJF to be tops in NY> 

[Tags]

RE: Mount Union

I like many people have gone back & forth a bit on this, but here is where I think I've landed.
I think that until the East sends their best team to Alliance and beats MU, then we should not even talk about it. Everyone knows how weak the OAC is, but until our best of the best can beat them in the playoffs, it doesn't matter how bad they destroy their conference.

Our 2006 Fisher team was by far the best we had to offer, and although it was a close game we didn't win. Same goes for the Rowan teams we've sent. I think we just need to mind our own backyard, and attempt to send some teams that knock them off, until then it doesn't merit conversation.

[pg04]

RE: Mount Union

I like many people have gone back & forth a bit on this, but here is where I think I've landed.
I think that until the East sends their best team to Alliance and beats MU, then we should not even talk about it. Everyone knows how weak the OAC is, but until our best of the best can beat them in the playoffs, it doesn't matter how bad they destroy their conference.

Our 2006 Fisher team was by far the best we had to offer, and although it was a close game we didn't win. Same goes for the Rowan teams we've sent. I think we just need to mind our own backyard, and attempt to send some teams that knock them off, until then it doesn't merit conversation.

The fact that there are 4 OAC teams in the top 12 means they aren't too weak at all (and in fact, the good OAC teams are the only ones that seem to challenge them at all most seasons) , and the point wasn't that the conference is weak, and the point didn't have anything at all to do with the East Region.  It was just that there was no point at all for them to play any of the Regular season games or the first two round of the playoffs --- or at least that was my point.

[Pat Coleman]

Tags:

Only once has the runner-up from the so-called weak OAC ever lost a playoff game to anyone but Mount Union.

That so-called weak conference manages to produce two quarterfinalists pretty much every year. And that includes the year where the OAC runner-up won the East bracket with a hobbled quarterback.

[superman57]

As pat has said before I think we need to split D3 into two divisons...this way I think you get a lot of kids who would never be able to play college football getting playing time in a lower division and then players like a  Lindsey Crea would be able to go to a Fisher or an Ithaca to help build a program...


Also I feel that Mount right now has an incredible team and unless someone goes and breaks Nate Kmics leg (even then he will probably still run for 200 yards) MUC is going to run right through to the National semis...although this year I think we will see the south sent over to the North and the east taking the west

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think I ever advocated splitting D-III into two divisions. All I've done is resigned myself to it inevitably happening.

[Tags]

Ok letsjumpallovertags --- we all know how weak they are in comparison to Mt. Union. That wasn't my point.
My point was instead of whining about it, send a team that can beat them.

[pg04]

Tags:

Only once has the runner-up from the so-called weak OAC ever lost a playoff game to anyone but Mount Union.

That so-called weak conference manages to produce two quarterfinalists pretty much every year. And that includes the year where the OAC runner-up won the East bracket with a hobbled quarterback.

To be fair, the East Region team they were playing was using their 3rd string QB!!