FB: Empire 8

[superman57]

I have no issue with wick beating fisher...

I do...I wish that they had not.

I agree, but my shrink says that holding a grudge is bad...I need to go beat up that clown  (JUST KIDDING)

[SJFF82]

Does anyone know the records of AU's Pep Band's opponents opponents

[SJFF82]

I have no issue with wick beating fisher...

I do...I wish that they had not.

I agree, but my shrink says that holding a grudge is bad...I need to go beat up that clown  (JUST KIDDING)

Thanks for the apparrent +k...Your shrink says that deep down you really want and need +k so back at ya.

[SJFF82]

Exactly right.  Hartwicks non-conference opponents do have a .390 winning percentage.  While Fishers opponents only have a .300 winning percentage to this point.  But, If I'm not mistaken, SOS is not only based on your opponents records, but the records of your opponents opponents.  Does that make any sense?  Haha.

Like someone said:  Husson, Becker, WNEC, and Mt. Ida just might finish with a higher winning percentage than that of Kings, Rochester, Buffalo State, and Brockport.  BUT, these teams play in much tougher conferences against mucher tougher competition.  Thus, the SOS for these teams will be higher than Hartwicks weaker opponents. 

Am I mistaken or is this true?

Just throwing this around for arguements sake and because I am bored...

SOS and teams that play in "tougher" conferences is pretty much relative.  Because of the AQ, most of the teams out there play in conferences.  Because, in general, these leagues will have a top to bottom outcome, usually records are similar between league champions and bottom feeders.  Example...clearly by everyone's standard the NJAC and Empire 8 have a stronger conference overall then NEFC.  But if you match the record of the first place team's from the E8, NJAC, and NEFC at the end of the year, you will see their records are very similar...with 0-2 losses at the most.  Same thing for the guys in the basement from all 3 leagues...with anywhere from 1-3 wins.

Obviously, I am not saying that the NEFC has a stronger conference then the E8 or NJAC.  If I ever do, I will order mandatory drug testing for myself.  But because this is D3...you can only take a look at overall records, and NOT use the standard "well we know this team is better then this team" because they played 2 more teams ranked in the "notional" top 25, or because they are in a "stronger" conference.

Yanks99,

I do understand your logic in regards to conference teams finishing with similar records from top to bottom.  
But, like Soopa57 said, only one of Hartwicks non-conference opponents is a conference team and that is WNEC.  Mt. Ida, Becker, and Husson are all independent football teams.  They play alot of games against other independent teams (which have poor records) and against conference bottom-feeders like (also with poor records).  Sure, they do play some games against conference teams but not enough to strengthen Hartwicks resume.  

Example:  Becker plays other independent teams like Mt. Ida, Husson, Gallaudet, SUNY Maritime.  They also played perennial bottom feeders like Utica and Hartwick (which isn't true this year, but who knew that would be?).  They do play Salisbury though.  Mt. Ida plays other independents like SUNY Maritime, SUNY Morrisville, Becker, Husson, and Gallaudet.  They also play bottom feeders like Utica, Norwich, and Plymouth State (they are having a good year however).

Fisher plays Kings, Rochester, Buff State, and Brockport.  Look at the teams they are playing against.  Brockports schedule is absurdly tough with games against Salisbury, Wesley, Cortland, Fisher, Ithaca, Springfield, and Buffalo State.  Buffalo State schedule is tough as well.  They play Fisher, Cortland, Kean, Montclair State, Rowan, West Conn, TCNJ, and Brockport.  Rochester plays Carnegie Mellon, Fisher, Union, RPI, and Hobart.  Kings plays a tough schedule as well with games against Fisher, Ithaca, Hampden Sydney, Del Valley, Widener, Albright, and Wilkes.  

All in all, I would say that Fisher's opponents play much tougher competition than that of Hartwick's opponents.  And the records of Fisher's opponents opponents will probably be much higher than those of Hartwicks's opponents opponents (WOW that is complicated but I think it makes sense).

Dont forget that Fisher will also be playing MUC sometime later this year

[superman57]

well I have a feeling that next year and the year after fisher will win the SOS argument because of that pesky little team that has won a couple of NC's that will be the first game of the season

[theicdubbz]

I hope that the 44-9 score Mount Union posted on the #9 team in the country doesnt have the coaches at SJF going oooohhhh foooook

[SJFF82]

well I have a feeling that next year and the year after fisher will win the SOS argument because of that pesky little team that has won a couple of NC's that will be the first game of the season

57, did you go to the game at Alliance last year...if not, make plans to go to Week 1 next year...what a great atmosphere.  If Fisher goes deep again this Fall (I can only assume MUC will), that game next September will be all the more energetic.  Talk about Hype...

[fisheralum91]

it took guts to put MUC on the shedule- but i think it is a great move overall---even if they get shelled next year.
if fisher wants to be a constant in the playoff race and hopefully national title race--this is a great measure on how the team is against the best of the best.

[SJFF82]

I hope that the 44-9 score Mount Union posted on the #9 team in the country doesnt have the coaches at SJF going oooohhhh foooook

I hear ya...except, doesnt  MUC win just about every game by that margin (we already know they win EVERY game)...Even still, SJF walked right into Alliance last year, in a National semifinal situation, and went toe to toe for the entire game and only trailed by a 5 in the 4th quarter.

[superman57]

I hope that the 44-9 score Mount Union posted on the #9 team in the country doesnt have the coaches at SJF going oooohhhh foooook

dubbz...the MUC game can't really hurt fisher...if they get routed than it was MUC and it was the first game of the year...if they stay close than Fisher is a team to be reckoned  with and if they win...than Fisher just beat one of the most dominant teams of all time

and yes I was at Alliance...it was incredible...I sat with Tags, FMTAGS and lil sis tags

[fisheralum91]

FM tags-- is that a new prog rock station in Rochester?

[superman57]

FM tags-- is that a new prog rock station in Rochester?

it's the great Future Mrs. Tags... as Mrs. FA91 would be MFA91 and the kids would be Mini FA91 or MiFA91

[fisheralum91]

i see---- mini me's

[Yanks 99]

Exactly right.  Hartwicks non-conference opponents do have a .390 winning percentage.  While Fishers opponents only have a .300 winning percentage to this point.  But, If I'm not mistaken, SOS is not only based on your opponents records, but the records of your opponents opponents.  Does that make any sense?  Haha.

Like someone said:  Husson, Becker, WNEC, and Mt. Ida just might finish with a higher winning percentage than that of Kings, Rochester, Buffalo State, and Brockport.  BUT, these teams play in much tougher conferences against mucher tougher competition.  Thus, the SOS for these teams will be higher than Hartwicks weaker opponents. 

Am I mistaken or is this true?

Just throwing this around for arguements sake and because I am bored...

SOS and teams that play in "tougher" conferences is pretty much relative.  Because of the AQ, most of the teams out there play in conferences.  Because, in general, these leagues will have a top to bottom outcome, usually records are similar between league champions and bottom feeders.  Example...clearly by everyone's standard the NJAC and Empire 8 have a stronger conference overall then NEFC.  But if you match the record of the first place team's from the E8, NJAC, and NEFC at the end of the year, you will see their records are very similar...with 0-2 losses at the most.  Same thing for the guys in the basement from all 3 leagues...with anywhere from 1-3 wins.

Obviously, I am not saying that the NEFC has a stronger conference then the E8 or NJAC.  If I ever do, I will order mandatory drug testing for myself.  But because this is D3...you can only take a look at overall records, and NOT use the standard "well we know this team is better then this team" because they played 2 more teams ranked in the "notional" top 25, or because they are in a "stronger" conference.

Yanks99,

I do understand your logic in regards to conference teams finishing with similar records from top to bottom. 
But, like Soopa57 said, only one of Hartwicks non-conference opponents is a conference team and that is WNEC.  Mt. Ida, Becker, and Husson are all independent football teams.  They play alot of games against other independent teams (which have poor records) and against conference bottom-feeders like (also with poor records).  Sure, they do play some games against conference teams but not enough to strengthen Hartwicks resume. 

Example:  Becker plays other independent teams like Mt. Ida, Husson, Gallaudet, SUNY Maritime.  They also played perennial bottom feeders like Utica and Hartwick (which isn't true this year, but who knew that would be?).  They do play Salisbury though.  Mt. Ida plays other independents like SUNY Maritime, SUNY Morrisville, Becker, Husson, and Gallaudet.  They also play bottom feeders like Utica, Norwich, and Plymouth State (they are having a good year however).

Fisher plays Kings, Rochester, Buff State, and Brockport.  Look at the teams they are playing against.  Brockports schedule is absurdly tough with games against Salisbury, Wesley, Cortland, Fisher, Ithaca, Springfield, and Buffalo State.  Buffalo State schedule is tough as well.  They play Fisher, Cortland, Kean, Montclair State, Rowan, West Conn, TCNJ, and Brockport.  Rochester plays Carnegie Mellon, Fisher, Union, RPI, and Hobart.  Kings plays a tough schedule as well with games against Fisher, Ithaca, Hampden Sydney, Del Valley, Widener, Albright, and Wilkes. 

All in all, I would say that Fisher's opponents play much tougher competition than that of Hartwick's opponents.  And the records of Fisher's opponents opponents will probably be much higher than those of Hartwicks's opponents opponents (WOW that is complicated but I think it makes sense).

Hell...I would be a damn fool if I didn't admit on paper...and that the general consesus was...Fisher's non-conference opponents are genuinly perceived as tougher.  If you were to ask me blind going into a year if I would rather play #1) Brockport, Buff State, Rochester, and Kings; or #2) WNEC, Becker, Mt. Ida, and Husson, I would pick #2 literally every single time.  Especially in a league as tough as the E8, and especially because in 'Wick's case they have been down the last few years and needed to get some of these guys on the schedule to help build the program back up.  I was just making the point that using a "notional" top 25...afterall, in D3 that is all it really truly is anyways...may not necessarily be the way the head honchos at the NCAA use to determine SOS.  I thought it would draw some interesting conversation.

And you are 100% correct about next year when MUC gets on Fisher's schedule.  I think it is a GREAT move and will benefit everyone in the E8.  MUC on any E8 schedule brings instant credibility to the league, and especially with Fisher in this case.  Unfortunately for the rest of the E8, I think this will be a HUGE recruiting tool for Fisher next year.  I hope 'Wick gets to the point where they can schedule anyone out there year after year.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat, just the guy I was looking for...I see the Catholic QB has the last name of Ricca.  Was there a "Ricca" that played for them in the 92-95 era?  Sounds familiar...

Yep. Kevin Ricca played from 1994-97.

Back when we had a Features column we did a piece on the three Ricca brothers: http://www.d3football.com/features.php?feature=86