FB: Empire 8

[Pat Coleman]

They are voting on scores they read.

And the opponents' records, and the location of the games.

Frankly we could go round and round concerning polls. A couple of examples if polls are based on results for a particular year:

1. There shouldn't be a preseason poll since no games have been played yet. What is it based on?

2. In the first week of the season any team in the top 25 beaten by a team out of the rankings should be replaced by that team, right? If the poll is based on this years results.

Like I said we could go round and round and it gives us topics for discussion, but the great thing about DIII is it is actually decided on the field.

I thought you made a perfect point when you started talking about predicting the future rather than dwelling in the past. That's a lot of what a poll is about. Otherwise, wouldn't we just be reiterating the standings?

[superman57]

Exactly right.  Hartwicks non-conference opponents do have a .390 winning percentage.  While Fishers opponents only have a .300 winning percentage to this point.  But, If I'm not mistaken, SOS is not only based on your opponents records, but the records of your opponents opponents.  Does that make any sense?  Haha.

Like someone said:  Husson, Becker, WNEC, and Mt. Ida just might finish with a higher winning percentage than that of Kings, Rochester, Buffalo State, and Brockport.  BUT, these teams play in much tougher conferences against mucher tougher competition.  Thus, the SOS for these teams will be higher than Hartwicks weaker opponents. 

Am I mistaken or is this true?

Just throwing this around for arguements sake and because I am bored...

SOS and teams that play in "tougher" conferences is pretty much relative.  Because of the AQ, most of the teams out there play in conferences.  Because, in general, these leagues will have a top to bottom outcome, usually records are similar between league champions and bottom feeders.  Example...clearly by everyone's standard the NJAC and Empire 8 have a stronger conference overall then NEFC.  But if you match the record of the first place team's from the E8, NJAC, and NEFC at the end of the year, you will see their records are very similar...with 0-2 losses at the most.  Same thing for the guys in the basement from all 3 leagues...with anywhere from 1-3 wins.

Obviously, I am not saying that the NEFC has a stronger conference then the E8 or NJAC.  If I ever do, I will order mandatory drug testing for myself.  But because this is D3...you can only take a look at overall records, and NOT use the standard "well we know this team is better then this team" because they played 2 more teams ranked in the "notional" top 25, or because they are in a "stronger" conference.

Yanks99,

I do understand your logic in regards to conference teams finishing with similar records from top to bottom. 
But, like Soopa57 said, only one of Hartwicks non-conference opponents is a conference team and that is WNEC.  Mt. Ida, Becker, and Husson are all independent football teams.  They play alot of games against other independent teams (which have poor records) and against conference bottom-feeders like (also with poor records).  Sure, they do play some games against conference teams but not enough to strengthen Hartwicks resume. 

Example:  Becker plays other independent teams like Mt. Ida, Husson, Gallaudet, SUNY Maritime.  They also played perennial bottom feeders like Utica and Hartwick (which isn't true this year, but who knew that would be?).  They do play Salisbury though.  Mt. Ida plays other independents like SUNY Maritime, SUNY Morrisville, Becker, Husson, and Gallaudet.  They also play bottom feeders like Utica, Norwich, and Plymouth State (they are having a good year however).

Fisher plays Kings, Rochester, Buff State, and Brockport.  Look at the teams they are playing against.  Brockports schedule is absurdly tough with games against Salisbury, Wesley, Cortland, Fisher, Ithaca, Springfield, and Buffalo State.  Buffalo State schedule is tough as well.  They play Fisher, Cortland, Kean, Montclair State, Rowan, West Conn, TCNJ, and Brockport.  Rochester plays Carnegie Mellon, Fisher, Union, RPI, and Hobart.  Kings plays a tough schedule as well with games against Fisher, Ithaca, Hampden Sydney, Del Valley, Widener, Albright, and Wilkes. 

All in all, I would say that Fisher's opponents play much tougher competition than that of Hartwick's opponents.  And the records of Fisher's opponents opponents will probably be much higher than those of Hartwicks's opponents opponents (WOW that is complicated but I think it makes sense).

Hell...I would be a damn fool if I didn't admit on paper...and that the general consesus was...Fisher's non-conference opponents are genuinly perceived as tougher.  If you were to ask me blind going into a year if I would rather play #1) Brockport, Buff State, Rochester, and Kings; or #2) WNEC, Becker, Mt. Ida, and Husson, I would pick #2 literally every single time.  Especially in a league as tough as the E8, and especially because in 'Wick's case they have been down the last few years and needed to get some of these guys on the schedule to help build the program back up.  I was just making the point that using a "notional" top 25...afterall, in D3 that is all it really truly is anyways...may not necessarily be the way the head honchos at the NCAA use to determine SOS.  I thought it would draw some interesting conversation.

And you are 100% correct about next year when MUC gets on Fisher's schedule.  I think it is a GREAT move and will benefit everyone in the E8.  MUC on any E8 schedule brings instant credibility to the league, and especially with Fisher in this case.  Unfortunately for the rest of the E8, I think this will be a HUGE recruiting tool for Fisher next year.  I hope 'Wick gets to the point where they can schedule anyone out there year after year.

See that's it though...in the past Fisher scheduled cupcakes like Mt. Ida, but after awhile it's not worth it because it hurts you come Playoff time...but for hartwick..you guys are new to the party keep playing who you play and pad your w-l record...but just make sure you don't lose any of those games because it hurts your credibility...and azz holes like me will make a big deal about losing to wnec

[Yanks 99]

See that's it though...in the past Fisher scheduled cupcakes like Mt. Ida, but after awhile it's not worth it because it hurts you come Playoff time...but for hartwick..you guys are new to the party keep playing who you play and pad your w-l record...but just make sure you don't lose any of those games because it hurts your credibility...and azz holes like me will make a big deal about losing to wnec

I actually agree.  You have to remember too that these schedules are done up to two-three years in advance.  Fisher thinks, and they clearly do, have a strong program right now that looks like it will stay that way for some time.  I applaud the move to get MUC on the slate.  'Wick has struggled over the last few years.  The E8 is a tough league.  They needed to get some W's elsewhere.  Great move on their part a few years ago dropping, as an example, D1-AA St. Peter's and picking up Becker.  Hopefully they can keep up the success over the next several seasons and beyond.  If this is the case two plus years from now, I think then they can venture out and go after a "big game" from the non-conference side of the house.  Maybe not MUC...but some more nationally recognized teams.

[superman57]

See that's it though...in the past Fisher scheduled cupcakes like Mt. Ida, but after awhile it's not worth it because it hurts you come Playoff time...but for hartwick..you guys are new to the party keep playing who you play and pad your w-l record...but just make sure you don't lose any of those games because it hurts your credibility...and azz holes like me will make a big deal about losing to wnec

I actually agree.  You have to remember too that these schedules are done up to two-three years in advance.  Fisher thinks, and they clearly do, have a strong program right now that looks like it will stay that way for some time.  I applaud the move to get MUC on the slate.  'Wick has struggled over the last few years.  The E8 is a tough league.  They needed to get some W's elsewhere.  Great move on their part a few years ago dropping, as an example, D1-AA St. Peter's and picking up Becker.  Hopefully they can keep up the success over the next several seasons and beyond.  If this is the case two plus years from now, I think then they can venture out and go after a "big game" from the non-conference side of the house.  Maybe not MUC...but some more nationally recognized teams.

the next step would  be a hobart, RPI or Union...maybe a NJAC or MAC team...then go out and get a Wesley or MUC

[Yanks 99]

See that's it though...in the past Fisher scheduled cupcakes like Mt. Ida, but after awhile it's not worth it because it hurts you come Playoff time...but for hartwick..you guys are new to the party keep playing who you play and pad your w-l record...but just make sure you don't lose any of those games because it hurts your credibility...and azz holes like me will make a big deal about losing to wnec

I actually agree.  You have to remember too that these schedules are done up to two-three years in advance.  Fisher thinks, and they clearly do, have a strong program right now that looks like it will stay that way for some time.  I applaud the move to get MUC on the slate.  'Wick has struggled over the last few years.  The E8 is a tough league.  They needed to get some W's elsewhere.  Great move on their part a few years ago dropping, as an example, D1-AA St. Peter's and picking up Becker.  Hopefully they can keep up the success over the next several seasons and beyond.  If this is the case two plus years from now, I think then they can venture out and go after a "big game" from the non-conference side of the house.  Maybe not MUC...but some more nationally recognized teams.

the next step would  be a hobart, RPI or Union...maybe a NJAC or MAC team...then go out and get a Wesley or MUC

Totally agree.  'Wick used to actually have Union and RPI on the schedule a few years ago.  Teams like that would definately be a good start. 

[fan of d3]

I hope that the 44-9 score Mount Union posted on the #9 team in the country doesnt have the coaches at SJF going oooohhhh foooook

dubbz...the MUC game can't really hurt fisher...if they get routed than it was MUC and it was the first game of the year...if they stay close than Fisher is a team to be reckoned  with and if they win...than Fisher just beat one of the most dominant teams of all time

and yes I was at Alliance...it was incredible...I sat with Tags, FMTAGS and lil sis tags

So you're saying that its win win for fisher and then we will have to hear all year long next year that that loss shouldnt mean anything, or we will have to hear all year long that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread?

[SJFF82]

I hope that the 44-9 score Mount Union posted on the #9 team in the country doesnt have the coaches at SJF going oooohhhh foooook

dubbz...the MUC game can't really hurt fisher...if they get routed than it was MUC and it was the first game of the year...if they stay close than Fisher is a team to be reckoned  with and if they win...than Fisher just beat one of the most dominant teams of all time

and yes I was at Alliance...it was incredible...I sat with Tags, FMTAGS and lil sis tags

So you're saying that its win win for fisher and then we will have to hear all year long next year that that loss shouldnt mean anything, or we will have to hear all year long that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread?

Go smoke yourself!

[SJFF82]

See that's it though...in the past Fisher scheduled cupcakes like Mt. Ida, but after awhile it's not worth it because it hurts you come Playoff time...but for hartwick..you guys are new to the party keep playing who you play and pad your w-l record...but just make sure you don't lose any of those games because it hurts your credibility...and azz holes like me will make a big deal about losing to wnec

I actually agree.  You have to remember too that these schedules are done up to two-three years in advance.  Fisher thinks, and they clearly do, have a strong program right now that looks like it will stay that way for some time.  I applaud the move to get MUC on the slate.  'Wick has struggled over the last few years.  The E8 is a tough league.  They needed to get some W's elsewhere.  Great move on their part a few years ago dropping, as an example, D1-AA St. Peter's and picking up Becker.  Hopefully they can keep up the success over the next several seasons and beyond.  If this is the case two plus years from now, I think then they can venture out and go after a "big game" from the non-conference side of the house.  Maybe not MUC...but some more nationally recognized teams.

the next step would  be a hobart, RPI or Union...maybe a NJAC or MAC team...then go out and get a Wesley or MUC

Totally agree.  'Wick used to actually have Union and RPI on the schedule a few years ago.  Teams like that would definately be a good start. 

How cute, the Yankee fans are getting along together so nicely

[superman57]

I hope that the 44-9 score Mount Union posted on the #9 team in the country doesnt have the coaches at SJF going oooohhhh foooook

dubbz...the MUC game can't really hurt fisher...if they get routed than it was MUC and it was the first game of the year...if they stay close than Fisher is a team to be reckoned  with and if they win...than Fisher just beat one of the most dominant teams of all time

and yes I was at Alliance...it was incredible...I sat with Tags, FMTAGS and lil sis tags

So you're saying that its win win for fisher and then we will have to hear all year long next year that that loss shouldnt mean anything, or we will have to hear all year long that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread?

What are you talking about Fisher is already the greatest thing since sliced bread...

[fisheralum91]

'YEAH TOAST"

[AUKaz00]

Am I the only one that thinks that Daily Dose should be updated with new content daily?

[fisheralum91]

"FRENCH TOAST"

[fisheralum91]

oh cmon guys- am i the only idiot that has heard of Haywood Banks?

[Knightstalker]

KS sees toast KS thinks of Elvis Patterson.

[fisheralum91]

ok- i guess it was waaaaaaaay to obscure of a reference