FB: Empire 8

[boobyhasgameyo]

ju, why does it ruin it for you... I mean yes they are strong players, but other than that they are no different than other players...it's not like they are getting full-rides

I just dont like seeing d3 as a dumping ground for d2, d1aa or d1 players.  Im getting the feeling that some players are making d3 a national transfer ground to get to the next level if they arent able to make it at the place they first started.  That makes that second school just a place where they ended up to play football.  I mean people make mistakes and have the right to change schools dont get me wrong, but I think d3 schools are places where you go because you really like that school.  The whole Garcon thing kind of bugged me, and I just think d3 needs some stricter transfer rules

pbr see's your point JU just that pbr thinks it needs to be on a case by case basis which in reality you cant do...for example psu had a top notch recruit from cali several years ago his mother was diagnosed w/ cancer(if memory serves me correctly) so he didnt want to sit out so he transfered to a d3 school in cali so he could play right away. point is you cant fault a kid for that and there are numerous stories like this one and makes it tough to draw a line in the sand....

Yea it would be too hard to regulate.  If you want to go to your home school because of family reasons that of course is fine.  But the whole transfer down just because you were a backup at your other school bothers me.

Players do the reverse all of the time, like in basketball.  They don't get the recognition they feel they deserve out of high school or prep school so they go through the JuCo circuit and perform at a high level so they can get a scholarship offer from a big school.  Most people don't have a problem with that.  It's all about what is best for the individual person.  It's not like the D3 football players wouldn't switch to D1 in an instant if they knew they could play there. 

[HScoach]

Don't know if you guys want an outside opinion, but here's my 2 cents regardless.

I hate transfers.

I don't like them either.  But in my screwed up mind, not all transfers are created equal and therefore get varying levels of disapproval.  I'll use previous Mount Union transfers as the example since that's all I know.

D1 or D1-AA players transfering to Mount:  I'm sort of OK with D1 kids transfering to Mount if they're Alliance area guys returning home after going away to a bigger school.  Especially if there are family health problems at home like Larry Kinnard (OSU) had.  I still don't like to see them because of the negative stigma they bring to the program, but I understand why they're transfering.

I also don't mind seeing the borderline D1 guys come in if they were originally recruited by Kehres, ready to come to Mount, but went D1 or D1-AA when the surprising scholarship offer came, only to find out they couldn't cut it at D1.  I look at these guys as "almost D3 guys" from the start. 

Luckily Kehres doesn't allow many transfers into the program. 


D3 players transfering INTO Mount:  I don't like seeing D3 kids transfer into Mount because they're coming just to jump on the bandwagon.  Luckily this doesn't happen very often.  In fact, Garcon is the only one I can remember in the last 15 years that ever saw the field.  And before that time, Mount wasn't Mount so they don't count as bandwagon chasers.

I don't like the D3 to D3 thing at all.  From the outside looking in, I would have hated to seeing Garcon transfer to Mount.  Just like I didn't agree with Danny Jones leaving a Cali program after 3 years and travel halfway across the country to attend Whitewater.   Something just seems completely "anti-D3" about this.


D3 players transfering OUT OF Mount:  I completely understand the kids that come to Mount and get buried on the depth chart wanting to transfer and play somewhere else.  If I was paying $30k a year, I'd want a chance to contribute too instead of just being a tackling dummy.  I harbor no ill will against a kid that transfers out of Mount to play elsewhere.  Even when they go to a competing OAC school and become a stud MLB (Joel Sickmeier).

[superman57]

HScoach, I actually agree with a lot of your opinions... and the only difference that I would have with you is the DI or DIAA guys transfering into fisher... I think Fisher is a strong overall program, but no at the point where they are just jumping on a bandwagon...

[Jonny Utah]

JU in my opinion there is a difference, between the Pierre Garcon's of the world who go laterally, for a program just to win, and guys like a Paul Keely who was not going to get any playing time, or Robbie Brown who went to Cornell, probably was overwhelmed by the mix of the tough academics and playing dIa football... 

I simply have to question someone that was accepted to one of the best Universities in the world transfering to a d3 school like SJF (or Ithaca for that matter).  If he failed out, I don't know if thats better or worse to use a d3 school as a saftey net for his failed first career.  I dont want to talk about someone specific here, but maybe he was from the area (rochester) or maybe he was going to go to SJF or Cornell.

I guess to me, d3football is special because its a bunch of kids at the same school, having the same academic interests, playing a sport at a good competitive level.  Of course there is going to be that kid that doesnt like the school and wants/needs to come home, but those are rare.  As for not making the team and trying to go somewhere else....yea maybe a qb in the case of Keeley but then I question whether he really liked SJF as a school or not.  Did he care about football more than school?  Did I?  Lots of good questions here but I think transfers should be discouraged at this level as much as possible.

[superman57]

JU, from what I understood from Upstate, he was local... For some kids freshman year is a very hard adjustment, Now we don't know what the story is, but I don't have an issue with him transfering out of Cornell, to go to a school close to his house, and different, Fisher and Cornell are as different as night and day...

Personally, I would not of gone to a school like cornell even if I got in...for me the sheer size of the school would be intimidating to me, so I personally liked the small town atmosphere of fisher, where I knew my profesors and my profs knew me...

[lewdogg11]

JU in my opinion there is a difference, between the Pierre Garcon's of the world who go laterally, for a program just to win, and guys like a Paul Keely who was not going to get any playing time, or Robbie Brown who went to Cornell, probably was overwhelmed by the mix of the tough academics and playing dIa football... 

I simply have to question someone that was accepted to one of the best Universities in the world transfering to a d3 school like SJF (or Ithaca for that matter).  If he failed out, I don't know if thats better or worse to use a d3 school as a saftey net for his failed first career.  I dont want to talk about someone specific here, but maybe he was from the area (rochester) or maybe he was going to go to SJF or Cornell.

I guess to me, d3football is special because its a bunch of kids at the same school, having the same academic interests, playing a sport at a good competitive level.  Of course there is going to be that kid that doesnt like the school and wants/needs to come home, but those are rare.  As for not making the team and trying to go somewhere else....yea maybe a qb in the case of Keeley but then I question whether he really liked SJF as a school or not.  Did he care about football more than school?  Did I?  Lots of good questions here but I think transfers should be discouraged at this level as much as possible.

JU, sometimes kids just aren't happy in the situation the put themselves into.  My honest opinion is that it takes a lot of balls to transfer.  For some reason, the term 'transfer' comes with high expectations, and sometimes, transfers suck just as bad as what you have at 3rd string.  Shoot, I transferred in High School for football reasons so I can't really accept your 'd3football is special' theory.  You have only so many years to play a certain level of a certain sport, while getting a certain education...  You should atleast be happy and not have to eat the original decision you made when you were 17(or that your parents made for you).  If you have a nuts to change something to make yourself a little happier, I'm all for it.

[Jonny Utah]

JU in my opinion there is a difference, between the Pierre Garcon's of the world who go laterally, for a program just to win, and guys like a Paul Keely who was not going to get any playing time, or Robbie Brown who went to Cornell, probably was overwhelmed by the mix of the tough academics and playing dIa football... 

I simply have to question someone that was accepted to one of the best Universities in the world transfering to a d3 school like SJF (or Ithaca for that matter).  If he failed out, I don't know if thats better or worse to use a d3 school as a saftey net for his failed first career.  I dont want to talk about someone specific here, but maybe he was from the area (rochester) or maybe he was going to go to SJF or Cornell.

I guess to me, d3football is special because its a bunch of kids at the same school, having the same academic interests, playing a sport at a good competitive level.  Of course there is going to be that kid that doesnt like the school and wants/needs to come home, but those are rare.  As for not making the team and trying to go somewhere else....yea maybe a qb in the case of Keeley but then I question whether he really liked SJF as a school or not.  Did he care about football more than school?  Did I?  Lots of good questions here but I think transfers should be discouraged at this level as much as possible.

JU, sometimes kids just aren't happy in the situation the put themselves into.  My honest opinion is that it takes a lot of balls to transfer.  For some reason, the term 'transfer' comes with high expectations, and sometimes, transfers suck just as bad as what you have at 3rd string.  Shoot, I transferred in High School for football reasons so I can't really accept your 'd3football is special' theory.  You have only so many years to play a certain level of a certain sport, while getting a certain education...  You should atleast be happy and not have to eat the original decision you made when you were 17(or that your parents made for you).  If you have a nuts to change something to make yourself a little happier, I'm all for it.

Im all for kids in high school trying to find a good situation for them in order to better themselves and give themselves a chance at the next level.  And Im still fine with probably 90% of the transfers that probably occur at the d3 level and even d1 level.  But when you have some schools (not SJF) that just have guys comming in for a year or two, getting degrees and dominating a sport, I think that goes contrary to what college athletics is all about.  These aren't supposed to be football teams that can sign/transfer/accept players.  They are supposed to be colleges that have student athletes.  It is worse at the d1 level of course (many athletes wouldnt get into these schools anyway) but even at the d3 level these transfers for athletics should be consistent with the general population.

I mean, there are d1 transfer rules set up for a reason.  I think d3 might have to look at some sort of rule in the future as well.

[Jonny Utah]

And Im not sure if any Ithaca guys ever played against this guy, but he was by far the best player I had ever played against while at IC......

http://www.aicyellowjackets.com/sports/fball/2007/news/feb22

[JQV]

My freshman year at IC he tore our ass at Butterfield.

I just looked the box score up on Pat's archive and he went for 303, most ever by an opponent against the Bombers.

[realistic]

ju, why does it ruin it for you... I mean yes they are strong players, but other than that they are no different than other players...it's not like they are getting full-rides

I just dont like seeing d3 as a dumping ground for d2, d1aa or d1 players.  Im getting the feeling that some players are making d3 a national transfer ground to get to the next level if they arent able to make it at the place they first started.  That makes that second school just a place where they ended up to play football.  I mean people make mistakes and have the right to change schools dont get me wrong, but I think d3 schools are places where you go because you really like that school.  The whole Garcon thing kind of bugged me, and I just think d3 needs some stricter transfer rules

pbr see's your point JU just that pbr thinks it needs to be on a case by case basis which in reality you cant do...for example psu had a top notch recruit from cali several years ago his mother was diagnosed w/ cancer(if memory serves me correctly) so he didnt want to sit out so he transfered to a d3 school in cali so he could play right away. point is you cant fault a kid for that and there are numerous stories like this one and makes it tough to draw a line in the sand....

Yea it would be too hard to regulate.  If you want to go to your home school because of family reasons that of course is fine.  But the whole transfer down just because you were a backup at your other school bothers me.

Players do the reverse all of the time, like in basketball.  They don't get the recognition they feel they deserve out of high school or prep school so they go through the JuCo circuit and perform at a high level so they can get a scholarship offer from a big school.  Most people don't have a problem with that.  It's all about what is best for the individual person.  It's not like the D3 football players wouldn't switch to D1 in an instant if they knew they could play there. 

yeah - but the Juco --> D-1 comparison doesn't really work because a lot of those guys get scholarships for juco as well.  Maybe not full, but definately money, and it's cheaper to begin with, so the money is there for them the whole time.

I totally hear what JU is saying and agree that I am fine with 90% of them but some do bother me (not saying this case for SJF at all, don't know the circumstances)

My freshman year at IC he tore our ass at Butterfield.

I just looked the box score up on Pat's archive and he went for 303, most ever by an opponent against the Bombers.

I was just gonna say the same things....covered that game, he was amazing.  That wasn't a pretty end to the season after huge road wins at TCNJ and Springfield.

[Jonny Utah]

Yea JUCOs never bothered me because these guys are going there in order to end up at a 4 year school anyway.  As long as the school doesnt have 100% of their JUCO transfers playing sports that is fine IMO

[AUPepBand]

Happy Third of July to E8 Posters Everywhere....from Pep



On Saxon Warriors!

[maxpower]

Hey everyone, out of my long hibernation. Glad to see there's still lively debate going on here. It'll be a beeeautiful 4th down here in SD, and here's hoping all of you have a great weekend wherever you are.

Be back to regular posting starting with camp, and I'll be in and out til then. As not so rowdy bomber would say, bis bald.

[RunningRobby25]

Gentlemen,
Just wishing everyone a happy 4th of July weekend from Sunny (and smokey) Sacramento!
Looking forward to following the E8 on this board now that I won't be around every weekend to follow the Cards 

[AUPepBand]

Pep, for one, is happy that you are on the Left Coast, RunningRobby, and not running for TDs against his Saxons!