FB: Empire 8

[theoriginalupstate]

He really was amazing.  I remember him putting together like a 6TD game or something once (in fact, I think it was against Fisher) where he ran one, caught one, passed for one, returned a kick, returned a punt, or some sort of cycle like that.  He also, drove the team bus to the game, cooked the pregame meal, painted the helmets, coached the defense, molded the mouthpieces, and founded AU

He actually did not have 6TD's, but he still had a sick game vs SJF in 2002 in a losing effort.  Raynor had 378 all-purpose yards with 115 yards rushing, 86 yards receiving, 165 yards on four kickoff returns, and 12 yards on one punt return. He scored three touchdowns and kicked a field goal in the Saxons' 34-26 loss to St. John Fisher.


Lost in that game was Gerald Dias' efforts as he had 15 tackles, eight solo hits and set a  school record when he returned a punt 97 yards for the game winning touchdown.

[bomber27]

Well, its good that I didn't say he was the best in history, that does go to whittman.  I said he is the best I played with.  Now, I am almost sure their extenuating situations that don't let him show that and like I stated previous, all three guys there this year are great.  I don't think it is romantasizing as much as it is the fact that I was lucky enough to see all of these guys everyday.  It does not mean anything and you are all right to have an opinion, just like me.  Now, Baez is lightning in a bottle too and you have seen more games of recent but all I am saying is that what I have "seen" and by seen I mean when I was there, I haven't been back for abit now, but from what I have seen, Donovan is a workhorse that I would throw my hat on when healthy.  Long story short,they are all good and they play because of it.  and Maxpower, you may be right, I'll let you know when I see the game against springfield how I feel. 

[superman57]

sorry here is the article
http://home.sjfc.edu/courier/pages/sports9-20-06/R&Rfastfeet.htm

[maxpower]

No worries B27... I'm sure you know a sh*tload more about football than I do, I'm also just stating what I've seen recently.

Anyway, go Bombers.

[bomber27]

It's all good max.  We are all fans and I value your opinion because you have seen them recently.  I appreciate all of you keeping me up on the current bombers

[gobombers15]

Wow, I don't check the boards for two days and I come back to 10+ pages. Just some brief thoughts on what I read. Sorry if some of these topics are stale by now:

Cortland/Fisher rankings: Personally, I would rank Cortland ahead of Fisher. That's nothing against Fisher. I just think, save Rowan, Cortland is the most balanced team in the East. They really run that option well with Smith and Bowser. Haas is a beast on the D-line, Sair is a playmaker in the secondary, and the LB's will lay the wood. I forgot who said it, but I would not "guarantee" that Fisher's offense would score 21 on that defense. Considering how Cortland closed last season and the nice start to this season, I'd say they're slightly better than Fisher right now. As Jose said, I can't see a team besides Rowan or Cortland winning the East this season. Just one man's opinion.

Re: Breaking into the sports industry: Networking is the name of the game. Some say take any job you can get, some say to go to those academies. It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you work hard and get your name out there. I went to the Sports Lawyers Association Conference this past summer in Toronto and just tried to get my face in front of as many people as possible. I'm not sure if I'll end up going into sports or not, but I'm hoping the men just named GM of their teams (Mike Tannenbaum for the NY Jets and some guy for the LA Kings) that went here, make a good name for Tulane.

Re: The IC fan joining the Cortland Kickline: Had to be one of the top five things I've ever seen at the game. It gets high marks for originality, balls, and the ensuing chase (which may have been the best part). He was arrested but was back at IC for the Saturday night parties.

Re: The comment a former IC broadcaster made about the basketball player from Harlem. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there was nothing malicious in that comment, whatsoever. I was sitting with this individual when it happened so I would know. This person often integrated the player's hometown, names of family members (amazing what you can find in a bio) and anything else he could learn about a player in order to mess with the player's head. I don't think "go back to Harlem" is racist in any way, shape or form if the player is, indeed, from Harlem. As far as the connotation of that statement, a person could easily learn the truth if he or she just picked up the game program and read that the player was from Harlem. Plus, while Harlem is a primarily black portion of NYC, there are many nice areas, too.

Re: Weather in WNY this weekend. IC is at B'port which means it's going to be 45 degrees, overcast and will rain at some point in the game. Has it ever been nice weather for an IC at B'port game?? When I was home during summers, I'd ref at the Brockport Soccer Festival. Even then, in the middle of summer, it would be crappy weather. No matter what weekend that tourney was scheduled for, there would inevitably be a steady rain for the duration. I think Jose is with me, I don't know how you NY'ers deal with that post-September weather. Come South!

[maxpower]

Sair is a playmaker in the secondary,

Not to mention a top-ranked wrestler. The kid is a beast on the mat.

Re: The comment a former IC broadcaster made about the basketball player from Harlem. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there was nothing malicious in that comment, whatsoever. I was sitting with this individual when it happened so I would know. This person often integrated the player's hometown, names of family members (amazing what you can find in a bio) and anything else he could learn about a player in order to mess with the player's head. I don't think "go back to Harlem" is racist in any way, shape or form if the player is, indeed, from Harlem. As far as the connotation of that statement, a person could easily learn the truth if he or she just picked up the game program and read that the player was from Harlem. Plus, while Harlem is a primarily black portion of NYC, there are many nice areas, too.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter if the kid who said it was racist; the comment was. There is no place, NO PLACE in America more notorious, it is used as a fall-back when referring to the black community time and time again. Whether or not the kid is from Harlem does not matter to me, much better judgement should have been excercised, especially considering that the player was visibly upset at the comment. As far as picking up the program and realizing, I WROTE the g*ddamn program, and it still struck me as racist. A white kid walking down the street who hears "go back to Niskayuna" would be confused. A black kid walking down the street hearing "go back to Harlem" would not be confused. And how can you argue that the statement is devoid of malice? We're talking about taunting here.

It was in poor taste, and certainly not anything that a BROADCASTER, not an alum, not just a student, but a current, active broadcaster should be saying. I had trouble taking seriously any broadcaster after that point; I wonder if the Park School would be pleased with that?


Anyway, go Bombers.

[maxpower]

Nothing against Niskayuna, perhaps the most fun-to-pronounce town in the state.

[gobombers15]

Sair is a playmaker in the secondary,

Not to mention a top-ranked wrestler. The kid is a beast on the mat.

Re: The comment a former IC broadcaster made about the basketball player from Harlem. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there was nothing malicious in that comment, whatsoever. I was sitting with this individual when it happened so I would know. This person often integrated the player's hometown, names of family members (amazing what you can find in a bio) and anything else he could learn about a player in order to mess with the player's head. I don't think "go back to Harlem" is racist in any way, shape or form if the player is, indeed, from Harlem. As far as the connotation of that statement, a person could easily learn the truth if he or she just picked up the game program and read that the player was from Harlem. Plus, while Harlem is a primarily black portion of NYC, there are many nice areas, too.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter if the kid who said it was racist; the comment was. There is no place, NO PLACE in America more notorious, it is used as a fall-back when referring to the black community time and time again. Whether or not the kid is from Harlem does not matter to me, much better judgement should have been excercised, especially considering that the player was visibly upset at the comment. As far as picking up the program and realizing, I WROTE the g*ddamn program, and it still struck me as racist. A white kid walking down the street who hears "go back to Niskayuna" would be confused. A black kid walking down the street hearing "go back to Harlem" would not be confused. And how can you argue that the statement is devoid of malice? We're talking about taunting here.

It was in poor taste, and certainly not anything that a BROADCASTER, not an alum, not just a student, but a current, active broadcaster should be saying. I had trouble taking seriously any broadcaster after that point; I wonder if the Park School would be pleased with that?


Anyway, go Bombers.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Several things:

1) Don't change my argument. I never said he wasn't a racist. However, he is not, in fact, a racist. I said what he said was not racist, and I stand by that.

2) Let me sum up your argument: "What was said, I viewed as racist and offensive. Therefore, it must have been racist and offensive to everyone else." How very presumptuous of you, first of all. Different words mean different things to different people. If you were offended, that's unfortunate. I don't care if you know one or four other people who agree with you. The comment was not racist in the context it was used, which was, essentially, "you suck, go back to where you came from." He would have made that comment whether the kid was from Harlem or Westchester. You know the context of that statement and so do I. Cut the sanctimonious garbage.

3) Based on your logic, there is quite a slippery slope. What isn't racist? Would it have been racist if he said "go back to Brooklyn?" How about "go back to the Bronx?" Those areas are probably close to as black as Harlem. Most would agree those statements aren't racist. So where does the line get drawn? Is it when the population of an area is comprised of a certain percentage of a minority that the comment can't be made? Or, again, is it just an arbitrary notion or quantification where YOUR "good sense" decides when a comment is racist.

4) "Whether or not the kid is from Harlem does not matter to me, much better judgement should have been excercised, especially considering that the player was visibly upset at the comment." I understand the argument that he could have used better judgment. With that said, the quote here basically says he should have used better judgment because the kid got upset at the comment. WHAT? Hindsight is a great tool but unfortunately, by definition, can't be exercised until after something is said or done. I don't understand how better judgment can be exercised after the person has already become mad at a statement. At that point it's moot, no?

5) As far as your statement about how Harlem is viewed, again, that is so incredibly relative to the person. I'm from New York and I didn't think it was racist. Why does the fact that it's Harlem matter? Because of the Harlem Renaissance? Ok, so if some kid from Fisher hailed from New Orleans and, as he was shooting foul shots, when someone yelled, "hey X, go back to New Orleans?" By your definition that's a racist comment. Most of New Orleans is more black than Harlem, friend. So much of the black culture was birthed here. But I can guarantee you that very few, if any, in that gym would allege that such a comment is racist. But what's the difference? The difference is that YOU think the comment about Harlem was racist because, relative to your belief system/morals/values, it is. But you have to understand people have different views and experiences than your own. Don't impart those on other people.

6) "A black kid walking down the street hearing "go back to Harlem" would not be confused." Well, there's one thing I agree with you about. However, was he walking down the street? Or, in fact, was he playing a basketball game in a hostile environment where one member of the crowd told him to go back from where he came from? You cannot even begin to argue that the context is the same. Not even close. If we were walking down the street and you told me about certain things you purport to have done with my sister the night before, I may throw a punch at you. If you said that during a basketball game that I was playing in, I'd probably laugh at you. This argument holds no weight with me.

7) "And how can you argue that the statement is devoid of malice? We're talking about taunting here." Again, context. Was there malice in the sense that he was trying to taunt the kid to get him to hear his comments and not think about his foul shot? Sure. Was there malice in the sense that he was trying to make a racist comment and genuinely hurt the kid's feelings? No. Two very different things.

Basically, you took your anger out on someone for saying something that YOU viewed as racist and that, potentially, could have been construed as such. With that said, given the context the statement was made in, it was not a racist comment. Again, I agree with you that it may have lacked good judgment considering how others may have potentially viewed the statement. The comment, however, as my above reasons show, was not racist.

[maxpower]

(This is fun!) I agree that we should agree to disagree, but let me say a few things in my defense:

1) I'm not saying that he intended it to be racist. I know what he was saying, using the same taunt as before. It DOES make a difference whether it was Harlem or New Orleans. How many black jokes have New Orleans as a punchline compared to Harlem? Do you disagree with me that Harlem has a stereotype associated more strongly with it than any other city in America? You mention Westchester, presumably as an example of a predominantly white community. Well, if a black member of a predominantly black crowd yelled "go back to Weschester" at one of two or three (if that) white players on the court, that would also be racist. I do know the context, as you say. I think our friend is the one that failed to consider the complete context of his statement.

2) Even though you refer to my objection as "sanctimonious garbage," I put to you that your opinion is based only on yours (and our friend's) as well. That's what we're arguing here: opinions. When forming my opinion, I choose to err on the side of preventing ugliness that could easily have been prevented, rather than sticking with a silly taunt through thick and thin. Yes, I think that the player was visibly upset matters. I doubt he would have been so visibly upset if the chant was "you suck, 57" or something like that (our psychologist friend would also be upset at that). You know what I mean? I think he was upset because of the (what I believe to be) racist tone of the comment. At that point (with such an obvious racial reference anyway) it ceases to matter what the taunter intended.

3) The walking down the street point was a little convoluted. I merely meant that, taken out of context, one taunt would be viewed racist and the other not. I withdraw that argument.

Again, I DON'T BELIEVE that our friend the broadcaster intended to be racist, is a racist, etc. I just don't think it matters.

We've each had two retorts.... I have a feeling the rest of the board is tiring of this. I encourage you to PM or e-mail me if you want to keep talking about it, which I wouldn't mind either way.


Anyway, go Bombers.



PS- After my letter was printed, our friend sent me a personal e-mail and threatened me. After that he wrote a retort to the paper with an offer to "compare resumes to show the differences between an accomplished journalist and someone who takes cheap shots to get their names in print." So when I "impugn" him, forgive me if I don't give a sh*t.

[bomber27]

One thing I know is that nothing on this board should be taken personally.  We are all fans guys.  Whether or not our disagreements are right or wrong, they are opinions, no one should be threatened for thinking one way or the other.  Honestly, i think it is all a little crazy.  Max and Go, kiss and make up. 

[ICemanJK]

IC/Brockport game...what do we look at for the key matchups??

[boobyhasgameyo]

Those last few posts were so lengthy my brain just shut down and I didn't even try to read them any longer.  Fisher education to the max baby

[gobombers15]

I agree, this conversation has come to an end. However flawed I view your arguments, they are your opinions and you are certainly entitled to them. I agree that the comment certainly toed a line, unintentionally of course, and could have been misconstrued. With that said, it was not racist, and I'm simply trying to point out that if I had not responded, many on this board who know to whom you are referring, may view him as racist.

I hold no ill will towards you or your views. I just respectfully disagree. My prediction for this weekend:

Ithaca--16
Brockport--23

This is the game where Donovan should be receiving the brunt of the carries, not the fast track at Fisher. This is especially the case when, as others have mentioned, Baez swung the momentum so much in last year's contest between Fisher and IC. I think Port's line wears us out and a late Bomber drive stalls in Brockport territory. With the exception of the playoff game in '03, this place has been a house of horrors for the Bombers.

[ICemanJK]

Tecmo...sent you and e-mail.

And I'd give you +k if I could for sending the letter to the school regarding the FDC.  I would hope most people view us as a clean group of fans having fun.