FB: Empire 8

[theoriginalupstate]

I'm with BoSox...sounds bitter...realy bitter...

Who cares about national rankings...we just want to make the playoffs.  But thanks for reminding everyone how terrible we would be without Boltus...or Phelan...or Tomaino...should I even continue?

By the way, I would rather lose to Curry in the first round of the NCAA's then win any game in the ECAC's...

BoSox...IC-Fisher game was played at Fisher this year...

So you would rather be a huge embarrassment then?

All the power to you...

[Yanks 99]

I'm with BoSox...sounds bitter...realy bitter...

Who cares about national rankings...we just want to make the playoffs.  But thanks for reminding everyone how terrible we would be without Boltus...or Phelan...or Tomaino...should I even continue?

By the way, I would rather lose to Curry in the first round of the NCAA's then win any game in the ECAC's...

BoSox...IC-Fisher game was played at Fisher this year...

So you would rather be a huge embarrassment then?

All the power to you...

By huge embarrassment you mean embarrassing like being ranked in the top 5 to start the year and now being 3-3?  I concede...all the power to you...

[theoriginalupstate]

I'm with BoSox...sounds bitter...realy bitter...

Who cares about national rankings...we just want to make the playoffs.  But thanks for reminding everyone how terrible we would be without Boltus...or Phelan...or Tomaino...should I even continue?

By the way, I would rather lose to Curry in the first round of the NCAA's then win any game in the ECAC's...

BoSox...IC-Fisher game was played at Fisher this year...

So you would rather be a huge embarrassment then?

All the power to you...

By huge embarrassment you mean embarrassing like being ranked in the top 5 to start the year and now being 3-3?  I concede...all the power to you...

I dont see wick playing anyone but cupcakes, you go play MUC and SU and then tell me how you do against them...

[Yanks 99]

I'm with BoSox...sounds bitter...realy bitter...

Who cares about national rankings...we just want to make the playoffs.  But thanks for reminding everyone how terrible we would be without Boltus...or Phelan...or Tomaino...should I even continue?

By the way, I would rather lose to Curry in the first round of the NCAA's then win any game in the ECAC's...

BoSox...IC-Fisher game was played at Fisher this year...

So you would rather be a huge embarrassment then?

All the power to you...

By huge embarrassment you mean embarrassing like being ranked in the top 5 to start the year and now being 3-3?  I concede...all the power to you...

I dont see wick playing anyone but cupcakes, you go play MUC and SU and then tell me how you do against them...

You can rationalize it anyway you want.  And by cupcakes, do you mean Fisher, because I believe we played Fisher.  Once again you sound bitter...and reasons always sound like excuses anyways...

[theoriginalupstate]

You can rationalize it anyway you want.  And by cupcakes, do you mean Fisher, because I believe we played Fisher.  Once again you sound bitter...and reasons always sound like excuses anyways...

Fisher is a conference opponent 'tard, im talking about playing Becker, West NE, M. IDA year after year. 

Whats your reason for being wick being worthless before Boltus started playing decent?

[SJFF82]

I'm with BoSox...sounds bitter...realy bitter...

Who cares about national rankings...we just want to make the playoffs.  But thanks for reminding everyone how terrible we would be without Boltus...or Phelan...or Tomaino...should I even continue?

By the way, I would rather lose to Curry in the first round of the NCAA's then win any game in the ECAC's...

BoSox...IC-Fisher game was played at Fisher this year...

So you would rather be a huge embarrassment then?

All the power to you...

By huge embarrassment you mean embarrassing like being ranked in the top 5 to start the year and now being 3-3?  I concede...all the power to you...

I dont see wick playing anyone but cupcakes, you go play MUC and SU and then tell me how you do against them...

You can rationalize it anyway you want.  And by cupcakes, do you mean Fisher, because I believe we played Fisher.  Once again you sound bitter...and reasons always sound like excuses anyways...

....wow. for once, it is not SJFF82 in the mix...'Wick has got 'us' on this one by simple fact that they beat us 2 in a row.  Upstate is passionate about SJF and a bit 'sore' as all us Fisher faithful are. 

The question/comment I have is what happened to the grand argument that SJF's success can only be attributable to the Bills, etc.  How then does one explain their present 'failures' ?  Did the Bills leave and nobody informed 82?  Did they leave and move to Oneanta....or Utica???  Sorry FA91

[Yanks 99]

You can rationalize it anyway you want.  And by cupcakes, do you mean Fisher, because I believe we played Fisher.  Once again you sound bitter...and reasons always sound like excuses anyways...

Fisher is a conference opponent 'tard, im talking about playing Becker, West NE, M. IDA year after year. 

Whats your reason for being wick being worthless before Boltus started playing decent?

Wow...really...in the same conference?  Man...

What is the reason we beat you for the last two years straight?  How far back do we want to go?  Fifty bucks says you are watching your old highlight tapes right now listening to Glory Days by the Boss in your old football jersey...

All I care about is winning out and getting a shot at the playoffs...maybe you should do the same...

[Frank Rossi]

OK, folks, it's time to play the exciting new gameshow:

WHY THE EMPIRE 8 TIEBREAKER IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY SENSELESS!

Host:  Let's have our first three contestants.  Hello, Team A, how are you this evening?

Team A:  I'm great, Frank, although I'm worried about this three-way tie I'm in right now.

Host:  Well, that's OK.  That's why we're here tonight, Team A.  Let's meet your first opponent, Team B!  Team B, how have you been doing since that league win to Team A?

Team B:  I was flying high, Frank, until my loss to Team C.  Boy, THAT was a drag.

Host:  All is not lost yet, Team B.  But first, we need to meet Team C.  Hey, Team C, congrats on that big late-season victory against Team B!

Team C:  Thanks, Frank.  It almost made up for that early loss to Team A.

Host:  Well, that's great.  OK, Teams, we're here to decide who goes to the NCAA Playoffs using your Empire 8 tiebreaker system.  Are you ready to play?!

Teams A, B & C:  YES!

Host:  OK.  Well, here we go!  First up, since you all have one loss in the conference, we have a three-way tie.  Let's see who your loss in conference is to for our head-to-head results round!

Team A:  Well, Frank, I lost to Team B.

Team B:  Frank, I lost to Team C.

Team C:  Frank, my loss was to Team A.

Host:  Ooooo.  Sorry then, Teams, that makes all of you 5-1 in your league and 1-1 against each other.  So we have to move to round 2, our results vs. lowest ranked teams in the conference that aren't in the tie.

Teams A, B & C:  Frank, we beat all the other teams!

Host:  RIGHT you are!  So we must move on to round 3, results vs. common non-league opponents.  Teams, who did you play?

Team A:  I played Teams D, E & F, Frank.

Team B:  I played Teams G, H & I, Frank.

Team C:  Well, I played Teams J, K & L, Frank.

Host:  Well, look at that, we have no winner still.  So now it's time for SUDDEN DEATH!  This round is the "NCAA SoS" round.  We need to look at your opponents' winning percentages -- this mainly takes your out-of-conference opponents' win-loss records into account with a minor variation if your own win-loss records are not identical.  However, we'll deal with the variation only if it plays a role.  Now that I've explained the rules, Team A, what are the records of your out-of-conference opponents this season, and how'd you do against each of them, out of curiosity?

Team A:  Well, I played teams that were 9-0, 8-1 and 6-3, Frank.  But I lost to all three.

Host:  Ooooo.  Sounds like a tough season, Team A.  Better luck next time.  Team B?

Team B:  Well, I played teams that were 5-4, 5-4 and 6-3, Frank.  But I BEAT all three!

Host:  WOW!  Great job, Team B!  Now, Team C?

Team C:  Frank, I played teams that were 2-7, 5-4 and 3-6.  I beat the first two, but I lost to the third.

Host:  Nice try, Team C.  I think we have a winner now.

Team B:  Well, that's obvious, Frank.  Team A went 5-4 this season, Team C went 7-2 and I went 8-1!

Host:  Right you are, Team B.  Our winner...

Team B:  Thank YOU!

Host:  ...is Team A!

Team B:  WHAT?!

Host:  Those are the rules of the game, Team B.  Team A's opponents' winning percentage is better than yours!

Team B:  Oh my God.

Host:  Well, Teams B & C, good luck in Pool C -- but Team A, you're our big winner!

------------------------------------

Seem right?

[Yanks 99]

OK, folks, it's time to play the exciting new gameshow:

WHY THE EMPIRE 8 TIEBREAKER IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY SENSELESS!

Host:  Let's have our first three contestants.  Hello, Team A, how are you this evening?

Team A:  I'm great, Frank, although I'm worried about this three-way tie I'm in right now.

Host:  Well, that's OK.  That's why we're here tonight, Team A.  Let's meet your first opponent, Team B!  Team B, how have you been doing since that league win to Team A?

Team B:  I was flying high, Frank, until my loss to Team C.  Boy, THAT was a drag.

Host:  All is not lost yet, Team B.  But first, we need to meet Team C.  Hey, Team C, congrats on that big late-season victory against Team B!

Team C:  Thanks, Frank.  It almost made up for that early loss to Team A.

Host:  Well, that's great.  OK, Teams, we're here to decide who goes to the NCAA Playoffs using your Empire 8 tiebreaker system.  Are you ready to play?!

Teams A, B & C:  YES!

Host:  OK.  Well, here we go!  First up, since you all have one loss in the conference, we have a three-way tie.  Let's see who your loss in conference is to for our head-to-head results round!

Team A:  Well, Frank, I lost to Team B.

Team B:  Frank, I lost to Team C.

Team C:  Frank, my loss was to Team A.

Host:  Ooooo.  Sorry then, Teams, that makes all of you 5-1 in your league and 1-1 against each other.  So we have to move to round 2, our results vs. lowest ranked teams not in the conference that aren't in the tie.

Teams A, B & C:  Frank, we beat all the other teams!

Host:  RIGHT you are!  So we must move on to round 3, results vs. common non-league opponents.  Teams, who did you play?

Team A:  I played Teams D, E & F, Frank.

Team B:  I played Teams G, H & I, Frank.

Team C:  Well, I played Teams J, K & L, Frank.

Host:  Well, look at that, we have no winner still.  So now it's time for SUDDEN DEATH!  This round is the "NCAA SoS" round.  We need to look at your opponents' winning percentages -- this mainly takes your out-of-conference opponents' win-loss records into account with a minor variation if your own win-loss records are not identical.  However, we'll deal with the variation only if it plays a role.  Now that I've explained the rules, Team A, what are the records of your out-of-conference opponents this season, and how'd you do against each of them, out of curiosity?

Team A:  Well, I played teams that were 8-1, 7-2 and 6-3, Frank.  But I lost to all three.

Host:  Ooooo.  Sounds like a tough season, Team A.  Better luck next time.  Team B?

Team B:  Well, I played teams that were 5-4, 5-4 and 6-3, Frank.  But I BEAT all three!

Host:  WOW!  Great job, Team B!  Now, Team C?

Team C:  Frank, I played teams that were 2-7, 5-4 and 3-6.  I beat the first two, but I lost to the third.

Host:  Nice try, Team C.  I think we have a winner now.

Team B:  Well, that's obvious, Frank.  Team A went 5-4 this season, Team C went 7-2 and I went 8-1!

Host:  Right you are, Team B.  Our winner...

Team B:  Thank YOU!

Host:  ...is Team A!

Team B:  WHAT?!

Host:  Those are the rules of the game, Team B.  Team A's opponents' winning percentage is better than yours!

Team B:  Oh my God.

Host:  Well, Teams B & C, good luck in Pool C -- but Team A, you're our big winner!

------------------------------------

Seem right?

Haha...it is pretty crazy FR...

+k...good write up...

[Yanks 99]

I'm with BoSox...sounds bitter...realy bitter...

Who cares about national rankings...we just want to make the playoffs.  But thanks for reminding everyone how terrible we would be without Boltus...or Phelan...or Tomaino...should I even continue?

By the way, I would rather lose to Curry in the first round of the NCAA's then win any game in the ECAC's...

BoSox...IC-Fisher game was played at Fisher this year...

So you would rather be a huge embarrassment then?

All the power to you...

By huge embarrassment you mean embarrassing like being ranked in the top 5 to start the year and now being 3-3?  I concede...all the power to you...

I dont see wick playing anyone but cupcakes, you go play MUC and SU and then tell me how you do against them...

You can rationalize it anyway you want.  And by cupcakes, do you mean Fisher, because I believe we played Fisher.  Once again you sound bitter...and reasons always sound like excuses anyways...

....wow. for once, it is not SJFF82 in the mix...'Wick has got 'us' on this one by simple fact that they beat us 2 in a row.  Upstate is passionate about SJF and a bit 'sore' as all us Fisher faithful are. 

The question/comment I have is what happened to the grand argument that SJF's success can only be attributable to the Bills, etc.  How then does one explain their present 'failures' ?  Did the Bills leave and nobody informed 82?  Did they leave and move to Oneanta....or Utica???  Sorry FA91

If you guys finish 7-3, that is hardly an unsuccessful seaon.  You could still get the AQ for the E8, or make the ECAC's which you would be immediately favored.  8-3 looks like a worse case scenario...

Also...I wish the Bills would come to Oneonta...

[Frank Rossi]

Frank,  Can you shed any light on the policy and/or rationale of not using out of region games in the SoS?

I missed this originally, Saxon -- When I went back for my write-up about the assinine nature of the E8 fourth tiebreaker, I caught it.

My thought is that there is concern that teams in one's own region and outside cannot be compared at any acceptable level of comparison for NCAA bid reasons.  Now, this harkens back to the days that there were only 16 or fewer teams in the tournament and that D3 teams normally all played within their own region.  The rule seems somewhat archaic for that reason -- although, the NCAA did change the definition of "in-region" to include state groupings that would have otherwise been outside of a team's region a decade ago.

It's also odd that the NCAA is attempting to scrap the entire "regional brackets" mentality (remember where Mt. Union played last year in the playoffs).  Yet, they have continued to adopt the regional comparison criterion instead of just comparing ALL D3 games played by all teams.  I could accept the regional W/L a lot more easily as a secondary criterion instead of a primary, but it's actually the other way around. 

So, I have no good answer for you here except to say that reasons that existed  over a decade ago seem to still be at play, although the NCAA is slowly but surely shaking some of those reasons.

Hope that helps.

- Frank

[boobyhasgameyo]

so bitter... dont be mad because Wick has your number. 

Where was the Fisher IC game played?

Go lose to curry again....

upstate don't forget WNEC last year! Without Boltus Wick is zip! If they had a team at all to help him (aside form one solid receiver) they would be nationally ranked without a doubt and never...yes never lose to a Curry or WNEC.

I'm with BoSox...sounds bitter...realy bitter...

Who cares about national rankings...we just want to make the playoffs.  But thanks for reminding everyone how terrible we would be without Boltus...or Phelan...or Tomaino...should I even continue?

By the way, I would rather lose to Curry in the first round of the NCAA's then win any game in the ECAC's...

BoSox...IC-Fisher game was played at Fisher this year...

I wouldn't.  If you win your ECAC game you can play the "oh man this team really clicked late, if only we would have gotten a shot in the big tournament, we would have done some serious damage" card.  If you lose in the first round to the conference winner of the worst conference in the country, there is nowhere to go from there...People just say man you really didn't belong there in the first place.  Not taking a shot at Hartwick for losing to them last year, I'm just saying that for any team if faced with those two options. 

[Yanks 99]

so bitter... dont be mad because Wick has your number. 

Where was the Fisher IC game played?

Go lose to curry again....

upstate don't forget WNEC last year! Without Boltus Wick is zip! If they had a team at all to help him (aside form one solid receiver) they would be nationally ranked without a doubt and never...yes never lose to a Curry or WNEC.

I'm with BoSox...sounds bitter...realy bitter...

Who cares about national rankings...we just want to make the playoffs.  But thanks for reminding everyone how terrible we would be without Boltus...or Phelan...or Tomaino...should I even continue?

By the way, I would rather lose to Curry in the first round of the NCAA's then win any game in the ECAC's...

BoSox...IC-Fisher game was played at Fisher this year...

I wouldn't.  If you win your ECAC game you can play the "oh man this team really clicked late, if only we would have gotten a shot in the big tournament, we would have done some serious damage" card.  If you lose in the first round to the conference winner of the worst conference in the country, there is nowhere to go from there...People just say man you really didn't belong there in the first place.  Not taking a shot at Hartwick for losing to them last year, I'm just saying that for any team if faced with those two options. 

No chance...you will never be able to convince me that you would take any ECAC game, win or lose, over a possible loss in the first round of the NCAA's...to anyone.  I would rather tell a kid that our team has been to the NCAA's the last two years then I made the NCAA's two years ago and then won a meaningles ECAC game last year.  Just an opinion...though I suspect many would agree with me.

It is like winning the NIT in college hoops...its nice, but no one really cares.

[SJFF82]

In theory Booby is right, in reality, Yanks99 is right...and because I hate the Yankees, and love the Boo....aaahh nevermind....

[SJFF82]

Good night fellas...k to those who didnt get it already today