FB: Empire 8

[JQV]

as much as we want to lie and all... The E8 is a buisness... and big name teams bring big noteriety... what is a big part of pats ATN podcast.... Fisher-Salisbury...  Fisher-Mount got a lot of press and the fact is as of right now fisher has given Mount their best game same far...

So you reward a team who played a redicoulsly hard non-conference schedule.... vs. the team that dropped one game off of their schedule to try and win the conference

Wow.  Interesting discussion of E8 minutiae.  Superman, I think you missed the boat though.  The SEC is a business.  The ACC is a business.  Even the Big-10 is a business, though consisting of less valuable assets (zing).

I am going to guess that the E8 has earned roughly $0 over its entire existence.  It's not like there is bowl money or tv contracts at stake here.

[PBR...]

as much as we want to lie and all... The E8 is a buisness... and big name teams bring big noteriety... what is a big part of pats ATN podcast.... Fisher-Salisbury...  Fisher-Mount got a lot of press and the fact is as of right now fisher has given Mount their best game same far...

So you reward a team who played a redicoulsly hard non-conference schedule.... vs. the team that dropped one game off of their schedule to try and win the conference

Wow.  Interesting discussion of E8 minutiae.  Superman, I think you missed the boat though.  The SEC is a business.  The ACC is a business.  Even the Big-10 is a business, though consisting of less valuable assets (zing).

I am going to guess that the E8 has earned roughly $0 over its entire existence.  It's not like there is bowl money or tv contracts at stake here.

nice one jose...albeit the big 10 actually has STUDENT athletes not  a.p. high school for its players(like certain s.e.c. schools)... and the 100s million dollar grants to do massive research for the u.s. govt i.e. atomic energy/health fields/ etc... 

[Jonny Utah]

as much as we want to lie and all... The E8 is a buisness... and big name teams bring big noteriety... what is a big part of pats ATN podcast.... Fisher-Salisbury...  Fisher-Mount got a lot of press and the fact is as of right now fisher has given Mount their best game same far...

So you reward a team who played a redicoulsly hard non-conference schedule.... vs. the team that dropped one game off of their schedule to try and win the conference

Wow.  Interesting discussion of E8 minutiae.  Superman, I think you missed the boat though.  The SEC is a business.  The ACC is a business.  Even the Big-10 is a business, though consisting of less valuable assets (zing).

I am going to guess that the E8 has earned roughly $0 over its entire existence.  It's not like there is bowl money or tv contracts at stake here.

I heard a crazy rumor of Rodriguez looking at the Clemson job.

[theoriginalupstate]

as much as we want to lie and all... The E8 is a buisness... and big name teams bring big noteriety... what is a big part of pats ATN podcast.... Fisher-Salisbury...  Fisher-Mount got a lot of press and the fact is as of right now fisher has given Mount their best game same far...

So you reward a team who played a redicoulsly hard non-conference schedule.... vs. the team that dropped one game off of their schedule to try and win the conference

Wow.  Interesting discussion of E8 minutiae.  Superman, I think you missed the boat though.  The SEC is a business.  The ACC is a business.  Even the Big-10 is a business, though consisting of less valuable assets (zing).

I am going to guess that the E8 has earned roughly $0 over its entire existence.  It's not like there is bowl money or tv contracts at stake here.

Its not so much as a business in terms of money but rather exposure.  Small school conferences need exposure to as many people as possible to either get kids familiar with the conference and the teams or to draw kids to the schools.  Its just another form of admissions advertisement.

[Jonny Utah]

as much as we want to lie and all... The E8 is a buisness... and big name teams bring big noteriety... what is a big part of pats ATN podcast.... Fisher-Salisbury...  Fisher-Mount got a lot of press and the fact is as of right now fisher has given Mount their best game same far...

So you reward a team who played a redicoulsly hard non-conference schedule.... vs. the team that dropped one game off of their schedule to try and win the conference

Wow.  Interesting discussion of E8 minutiae.  Superman, I think you missed the boat though.  The SEC is a business.  The ACC is a business.  Even the Big-10 is a business, though consisting of less valuable assets (zing).

I am going to guess that the E8 has earned roughly $0 over its entire existence.  It's not like there is bowl money or tv contracts at stake here.

I heard a crazy rumor of Rodriguez looking at the Clemson job.

And althogh Jose doenst need any help....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/08/the-saintly-joe-paterno-has-allowed-the-penn-state/

Penn St is my second favorite d1 team this year (after boston college).  I was at a bachelor party in vegas and I was 1-9 betting college and pro football with PSU being my lonely win.

Its going to be an interesting end of the year for d1 it looks like.

[Frank Rossi]

If team B lost two games like last year (Ithaca) then they should still make it, so the "not likely" might not be true in this case.  And I never said the team A (SJF) really deserves the at large bid this year anyway.

There are only 6 Pool C slots this year, Jonny.  And as I said, the hypotheticals aren't named teams.  For the time being, look at the scenarios as posed.

[Frank Rossi]

Im saying there is more of a chance of a tie in a 7-team conference than in a 10 team conference.

And the out of conference games are so varied, that they really dont matter as you think they might.  SJF losing to MUC is worse for them than Hartwick beating WNEC by a few points (if they did)

The only reason we even have these silly stat-systems is so the NCAA can have a build in excuse to why team A didnt get in over team B.  I shouldnt call it that silly, because Ive only seen a few instances where teams have really gotten screwed from the playoffs over the past 20 years.

And thats what Im saying.  Lets not GUESS at anything.  Lets look at the schedules at the end of the year, factor in a bunch of things, and let some common sense prevail over a possible SOS% for nonconference teams that lost a coinflipp to a team that had a higher pointdifferential vs an out of region team that just dropped its cheerleading program.

Say what?!

[JQV]

nice one jose...albeit the big 10 actually has STUDENT athletes not  a.p. high school for its players(like certain s.e.c. schools)... and the 100s million dollar grants to do massive research for the u.s. govt i.e. atomic energy/health fields/ etc... 

Like that bastion of higher learning Ohio State?

[Jonny Utah]

If team B lost two games like last year (Ithaca) then they should still make it, so the "not likely" might not be true in this case.  And I never said the team A (SJF) really deserves the at large bid this year anyway.

There are only 6 Pool C slots this year, Jonny.  And as I said, the hypotheticals aren't named teams.  For the time being, look at the scenarios as posed.

Ok,

-You would need to know how bad team A beat Curry, Coast Guard and Mt. Ida, and you would need to know how bad team B beat Union, Carnegie Mellon and Hobart.

-And you are saying that team C beat team A and B?

[Jonny Utah]

Im saying there is more of a chance of a tie in a 7-team conference than in a 10 team conference.

And the out of conference games are so varied, that they really dont matter as you think they might.  SJF losing to MUC is worse for them than Hartwick beating WNEC by a few points (if they did)

The only reason we even have these silly stat-systems is so the NCAA can have a build in excuse to why team A didnt get in over team B.  I shouldnt call it that silly, because Ive only seen a few instances where teams have really gotten screwed from the playoffs over the past 20 years.

And thats what Im saying.  Lets not GUESS at anything.  Lets look at the schedules at the end of the year, factor in a bunch of things, and let some common sense prevail over a possible SOS% for nonconference teams that lost a coinflipp to a team that had a higher pointdifferential vs an out of region team that just dropped its cheerleading program.

Say what?!

Frank,

Im saying that if there were 10 teams in the league, a 3-way tie with a team like Hartwick last year would have been more unlikely.

My second point is that you need to actually look at when the games are played and look at the point differential to actually see which team is better.  We all know any team can win on every given day, but this SOS stuff should be the 10 option.

And we had this discussion before, but nonleague games arent equal.  SJFs loss to MUC does not count as much as Hartwicks win over WNEC, even though it may have been more impressive in the grand scheme of things.

[PBR...]

as much as we want to lie and all... The E8 is a buisness... and big name teams bring big noteriety... what is a big part of pats ATN podcast.... Fisher-Salisbury...  Fisher-Mount got a lot of press and the fact is as of right now fisher has given Mount their best game same far...

So you reward a team who played a redicoulsly hard non-conference schedule.... vs. the team that dropped one game off of their schedule to try and win the conference

Wow.  Interesting discussion of E8 minutiae.  Superman, I think you missed the boat though.  The SEC is a business.  The ACC is a business.  Even the Big-10 is a business, though consisting of less valuable assets (zing).

I am going to guess that the E8 has earned roughly $0 over its entire existence.  It's not like there is bowl money or tv contracts at stake here.

I heard a crazy rumor of Rodriguez looking at the Clemson job.

And althogh Jose doenst need any help....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/08/the-saintly-joe-paterno-has-allowed-the-penn-state/

Penn St is my second favorite d1 team this year (after boston college).  I was at a bachelor party in vegas and I was 1-9 betting college and pro football with PSU being my lonely win.

Its going to be an interesting end of the year for d1 it looks like.

not that joe needs any defense but that was so far off base and comical it made pbr chuckle at times. the players who were problems were thrown off the team. other  majority of players had all charges dropped and apologized by the d.a.  joe however played it horrible constantly calling everything a witch hunt....

here is a article that shows facts on his players. amazing how many players are graduating w/ dual majors like starting center a.q. shipley who majors in finance and economics w/ high honors. joe gets his players real degrees not bogus degrees made up for athletes.

[PBR...]

nice one jose...albeit the big 10 actually has STUDENT athletes not  a.p. high school for its players(like certain s.e.c. schools)... and the 100s million dollar grants to do massive research for the u.s. govt i.e. atomic energy/health fields/ etc... 

Like that bastion of higher learning Ohio State?

ohio st. actually is a top research institute and your right those bad institutions like northwester, michigan, illinois, purdue.....all junk colleges and waste of money degrees... 

[Jonny Utah]

as much as we want to lie and all... The E8 is a buisness... and big name teams bring big noteriety... what is a big part of pats ATN podcast.... Fisher-Salisbury...  Fisher-Mount got a lot of press and the fact is as of right now fisher has given Mount their best game same far...

So you reward a team who played a redicoulsly hard non-conference schedule.... vs. the team that dropped one game off of their schedule to try and win the conference

Wow.  Interesting discussion of E8 minutiae.  Superman, I think you missed the boat though.  The SEC is a business.  The ACC is a business.  Even the Big-10 is a business, though consisting of less valuable assets (zing).

I am going to guess that the E8 has earned roughly $0 over its entire existence.  It's not like there is bowl money or tv contracts at stake here.

I heard a crazy rumor of Rodriguez looking at the Clemson job.

And althogh Jose doenst need any help....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/08/the-saintly-joe-paterno-has-allowed-the-penn-state/

Penn St is my second favorite d1 team this year (after boston college).  I was at a bachelor party in vegas and I was 1-9 betting college and pro football with PSU being my lonely win.

Its going to be an interesting end of the year for d1 it looks like.

not that joe needs any defense but that was so far off base and comical it made pbr chuckle at times. the players who were problems were thrown off the team. other  majority of players had all charges dropped and apologized by the d.a.  joe however played it horrible constantly calling everything a witch hunt....

here is a article that shows facts on his players. amazing how many players are graduating w/ dual majors like starting center a.q. shipley who majors in finance and economics w/ high honors. joe gets his players real degrees not bogus degrees made up for athletes.

PBR Id love to see where a DA apologized for dismissed cases. 

[Frank Rossi]

I feel like I'm debating Yogi Berra...

Im saying that if there were 10 teams in the league, a 3-way tie with a team like Hartwick last year would have been more unlikely.

Fine.  But earlier, you said that the few number of teams in the E8 makes tiebreakers less important in terms of trying to get them to operate correctly and somewhat precisely.  So this point makes no sense when placed up against your original point.

My second point is that you need to actually look at when the games are played and look at the point differential to actually see which team is better.  We all know any team can win on every given day, but this SOS stuff should be the 10 option.

This would be fine if the teams played more than once, but since they don't -- you really want us to discount a game just because it was scheduled earlier than another?  You really want us to take away some validity from the Hartwick win vs. SJF?  And even more from the Ithaca win vs. Hartwick?  Well, if that's the case, then Pat's poll is accurate and you shouldn't be dissing his Lambert Poll ballot.  Can't have it both ways.

In reality, the NCAA uses recent trend as among the last secondary criteria used only if nothing else is giving the Committee any way to differentiate the teams.  Thus, it virtually never comes into play for Pool C -- why should it come into play for Pool A?

And we had this discussion before, but nonleague games arent equal.  SJFs loss to MUC does not count as much as Hartwicks win over WNEC, even though it may have been more impressive in the grand scheme of things.

So, ummm, a loss is better than a win?  That's what you're suggesting here.  I'm going to give you one chance to improve this thought before I go ballistic on you for it -- hoping that you really meant something else...

[Jonny Utah]

I feel like I'm debating Yogi Berra...

Im saying that if there were 10 teams in the league, a 3-way tie with a team like Hartwick last year would have been more unlikely.

Fine.  But earlier, you said that the few number of teams in the E8 makes tiebreakers less important in terms of trying to get them to operate correctly and somewhat precisely.  So this point makes no sense when placed up against your original point.

My second point is that you need to actually look at when the games are played and look at the point differential to actually see which team is better.  We all know any team can win on every given day, but this SOS stuff should be the 10 option.

This would be fine if the teams played more than once, but since they don't -- you really want us to discount a game just because it was scheduled earlier than another?  You really want us to take away some validity from the Hartwick win vs. SJF?  And even more from the Ithaca win vs. Hartwick?  Well, if that's the case, then Pat's poll is accurate and you shouldn't be dissing his Lambert Poll ballot.  Can't have it both ways.

In reality, the NCAA uses recent trend as among the last secondary criteria used only if nothing else is giving the Committee any way to differentiate the teams.  Thus, it virtually never comes into play for Pool C -- why should it come into play for Pool A?

And we had this discussion before, but nonleague games arent equal.  SJFs loss to MUC does not count as much as Hartwicks win over WNEC, even though it may have been more impressive in the grand scheme of things.

So, ummm, a loss is better than a win?  That's what you're suggesting here.  I'm going to give you one chance to improve this thought before I go ballistic on you for it -- hoping that you really meant something else...

1) You are right about my original point, I was not clear about it.

2) I think games played later in the season should be looked at compared to games played earlier in a season.  I don't want to put a formula on it, but teams that win their first 8 games and lose their last two should be looked at different than a team that loses their first 2 and wins their last 8.  Again, I dont want to put a formula on it, but this is a sport where teams get better throughout the season, sometimes players get found, and others get benched, and the team simply plays better.  And my explanation for Pats ballot had more to do with score differential than what weeks the games were played. 

3) Im not saying a loss is better than a win, but yea, a 5-5 team from the WIAC or OAC could probably beat Coast Guard or Plymouth St by 3-4 touchdowns.   So SJF losing to MUC by a touchdown should look better than Utica beating Framingham St. in 5 overtimes.  Thats why 8-2 E8 and LL teams make the playoffs over 9-1 NEFC teams.