FB: Empire 8

[Yanks 99]

Upstate...

I hate to burst your bubble...but there is no way a 7-3 Fisher team gets a Pool C bid over a 8-1 'Wick team...not with 'Wick having the head to head win...

Yanks--

I'd like to agree with you, but these NCAA people are tricky dogs. IC once went 8-2 in 1998 and lost out on a Pool B bid to an 8-2 TCNJ team that IC beat. And won't SJF's region record be 7-1? You just never know. Also, you mentioned that "We're talking about this year and not the past" but keep in mind that the NCAA selection comittee, even with their guidelines, are human. Fair or not, SJF does have a recent winning history in the NCAA's, whereas the 'Wick doesn't. That could play into it as well. Personally, I'd rather not see a three loss at-large team, but who knows.

There is no doubt you should have made it over TCNJ that year...I thought your AD that year took a lot of flak for that...and if she did, rightfully so...

Things are different now...a little more standardize...but not perfect...

[Yanks 99]

Look...I am not knocking Fisher...Fisher is an incredilby strong program.  But if they finish with essentially the same record...and 'Wick had the head to head win...and they gave Fisher then bid, it would be criminal...

I would feel the same way if Fisher beat 'Wick, and the roles were reversed and 'Wick got the bid.

If it does happen you'd have to think that the committee took into account their respective schedules.  Knowing that there was a 3 way tie in the conference and the two teams that didnt get the bid were going against each other for the final bid with the same in-region record i'd give it to the one with the harder schedule....

If it happens, it is a travesty...take away the losses to MUC and Salisbury, and the teams basically have the same record...if they were to take a team that lost to another team with the same record head to head, it sets a terrible precedent...it would mean that the regular season doesn't matter and that the head to head match ups mean even less...

That is not me being biased...

[theoriginalupstate]

Look...I am not knocking Fisher...Fisher is an incredilby strong program.  But if they finish with essentially the same record...and 'Wick had the head to head win...and they gave Fisher then bid, it would be criminal...

I would feel the same way if Fisher beat 'Wick, and the roles were reversed and 'Wick got the bid.

If it does happen you'd have to think that the committee took into account their respective schedules.  Knowing that there was a 3 way tie in the conference and the two teams that didnt get the bid were going against each other for the final bid with the same in-region record i'd give it to the one with the harder schedule....

If it happens, it is a travesty...take away the losses to MUC and Salisbury, and the teams basically have the same record...if they were to take a team that lost to another team with the same record head to head, it sets a terrible precedent...it would mean that the regular season doesn't matter and that the head to head match ups mean even less...

That is not me being biased...

Stop scheduling crap teams and it wouldnt be an issue now would it?

a cake team to have early on is fine, but to roll out cake after cake after cake is just a team trying to make themselves look better than they really are...

[Yanks 99]

Look...I am not knocking Fisher...Fisher is an incredilby strong program.  But if they finish with essentially the same record...and 'Wick had the head to head win...and they gave Fisher then bid, it would be criminal...

I would feel the same way if Fisher beat 'Wick, and the roles were reversed and 'Wick got the bid.

If it does happen you'd have to think that the committee took into account their respective schedules.  Knowing that there was a 3 way tie in the conference and the two teams that didnt get the bid were going against each other for the final bid with the same in-region record i'd give it to the one with the harder schedule....

If it happens, it is a travesty...take away the losses to MUC and Salisbury, and the teams basically have the same record...if they were to take a team that lost to another team with the same record head to head, it sets a terrible precedent...it would mean that the regular season doesn't matter and that the head to head match ups mean even less...

That is not me being biased...

Stop scheduling crap teams and it wouldnt be an issue now would it?

a cake team to have early on is fine, but to roll out cake after cake after cake is just a team trying to make themselves look better than they really are...

There is no issue...I am even taking away your losses to MUC and Salisbury...

You have the same record in region as us...same record in the E8 as us...and we beat you head to head...

If it works out like this, we should get the Pool C over...period...

Any arguement beyond this is pointless...

[theoriginalupstate]

There is no issue...I am even taking away your losses to MUC and Salisbury...

You have the same record in region as us...same record in the E8 as us...and we beat you head to head...

If it works out like this, we should get the Pool C over...period...

Any arguement beyond this is pointless...

Your hoping that there isnt an issue, thats all that i can get from this aggressive approach of yours...

Everything isnt as simple as you think it is.

When has the NCAA been so cut and dry like your logic thinks it should be?

If it comes down to SJF/Wick for the last spot, trust me alot needs to happen for this scenario to pan out, it can go either way...

[Yanks 99]

There is no issue...I am even taking away your losses to MUC and Salisbury...

You have the same record in region as us...same record in the E8 as us...and we beat you head to head...

If it works out like this, we should get the Pool C over...period...

Any arguement beyond this is pointless...

Your hoping that there isnt an issue, thats all that i can get from this aggressive approach of yours...

Everything isnt as simple as you think it is.

When has the NCAA been so cut and dry like your logic thinks it should be?

If it comes down to SJF/Wick for the last spot, trust me alot needs to happen for this scenario to pan out, it can go either way...

You are dreaming man...if Fisher and 'Wick both win out, and IC gets the AQ, there is no way Fisher gets the Pool C over 'Wick...we have the head to head...

By your logic, the head to head means nothing...that is absolutey ridiculous...

Keep watching your highlight tapes from the Final 4 year and imagining it is this year...the Final 4 is impressive for sure...I hope someday 'Wick can get there...but you don't get a pass this year...

[superman57]

I would agree that on the crust of the situation yes Wick would deserve the nod over fisher... but when you look at everything together... Ithaca smoked Hartwick... Ithaca won the E8... Fisher smoked Ithaca and lost by 3 points to wick... if you are going over all of that with everything created equal... you should take Fisher and Ithaca because they would have put together the better games.. a lot of it in my mind also depends on what Fisher does to Alfred... If fisher goes in and beats Alfred by 40 then I say you have to give it to fisher.... Is it fair... no but if Hartwick played a tougher schedule and played 10 games they would have gotten the nod

[Yanks 99]

I would agree that on the crust of the situation yes Wick would deserve the nod over fisher... but when you look at everything together... Ithaca smoked Hartwick... Ithaca won the E8... Fisher smoked Ithaca and lost by 3 points to wick... if you are going over all of that with everything created equal... you should take Fisher and Ithaca because they would have put together the better games.. a lot of it in my mind also depends on what Fisher does to Alfred... If fisher goes in and beats Alfred by 40 then I say you have to give it to fisher.... Is it fair... no but if Hartwick played a tougher schedule and played 10 games they would have gotten the nod

This is pointless...if you had won either game against MUC or Salisbury, you may have a point.  You didn't...not even against Salisbury missing several defensive starters...at home...with a 14 point lead in the 4th...

You lost both of those games.  Taking away even those losses, you have the same record as 'Wick in region and 'Wick won the head to head...if we all win out and IC gets the AQ, we get the Pool C over you...IF the E8 is fortunate enough to get two teams.

But there is no way 7-3 Fisher team this year gets a Pool C over a 8-1 'Wick team.  You can talk about strength of schedule...but where is the strength when you lose both of those non-league games?

[superman57]

I would agree that on the crust of the situation yes Wick would deserve the nod over fisher... but when you look at everything together... Ithaca smoked Hartwick... Ithaca won the E8... Fisher smoked Ithaca and lost by 3 points to wick... if you are going over all of that with everything created equal... you should take Fisher and Ithaca because they would have put together the better games.. a lot of it in my mind also depends on what Fisher does to Alfred... If fisher goes in and beats Alfred by 40 then I say you have to give it to fisher.... Is it fair... no but if Hartwick played a tougher schedule and played 10 games they would have gotten the nod

This is pointless...if you had won either game against MUC or Salisbury, you may have a point.  You didn't...not even against Salisbury missing several defensive starters...at home...with a 14 point lead in the 4th...

You lost both of those games.  Taking away even those losses, you have the same record as 'Wick in region and 'Wick won the head to head...if we all win out and IC gets the AQ, we get the Pool C over you...IF the E8 is fortunate enough to get two teams.

But there is no way 7-3 Fisher team this year gets a Pool C over a 8-1 'Wick team.  You can talk about strength of schedule...but where is the strength when you lose both of those non-league games?

The strength is saying that you actually go out and play teams... but I am completly throwing away the games against MUC and Salisbury... what I am saying is how you win gets into the committees mind and Fisher routing the e8 champion looks better than a 3 point win by wick... sorry

[Yanks 99]

I would agree that on the crust of the situation yes Wick would deserve the nod over fisher... but when you look at everything together... Ithaca smoked Hartwick... Ithaca won the E8... Fisher smoked Ithaca and lost by 3 points to wick... if you are going over all of that with everything created equal... you should take Fisher and Ithaca because they would have put together the better games.. a lot of it in my mind also depends on what Fisher does to Alfred... If fisher goes in and beats Alfred by 40 then I say you have to give it to fisher.... Is it fair... no but if Hartwick played a tougher schedule and played 10 games they would have gotten the nod

This is pointless...if you had won either game against MUC or Salisbury, you may have a point.  You didn't...not even against Salisbury missing several defensive starters...at home...with a 14 point lead in the 4th...

You lost both of those games.  Taking away even those losses, you have the same record as 'Wick in region and 'Wick won the head to head...if we all win out and IC gets the AQ, we get the Pool C over you...IF the E8 is fortunate enough to get two teams.

But there is no way 7-3 Fisher team this year gets a Pool C over a 8-1 'Wick team.  You can talk about strength of schedule...but where is the strength when you lose both of those non-league games?

The strength is saying that you actually go out and play teams... but I am completly throwing away the games against MUC and Salisbury... what I am saying is how you win gets into the committees mind and Fisher routing the e8 champion looks better than a 3 point win by wick... sorry

You don't get points for playing tough teams and losing to all of them...if that is the case, then we should schedule and lose to Ohio State, USC, and Florida next year, hope to finish 5-1 in the E8 and then complain that we had the tougher schedule...

I am all about playing a tougher schedule...but in region THIS YEAR...you have the same record as 'Wick...and we won head to head...on your home field...which if I recall was a big excuse why you lost to 'Wick last year (playing in the Cage, bad call at the goal line, etc.).  Like I have always said, reasons sound like excuses...

[superman57]

dude... a 3 way tie is like dating your cousin... it sucks... but if I were the NCAA committie I would give Fisher the nod over Wick, because of fishers win over ithaca... the NCAA likes BIG point spread wins...

wick beat 1-6 WNEC by 32
lost to 5-1 Ithaca by 27
beat 4-3 Fisher by 3
beat 5-2 Alfred by 5
beat 2-4 becker by 37
+50
13-13


Fisher lost to 6-0 MUC by 30 (every other team has lost to MUC by 37 or more)
Fisher beat Buff State 0-6 buff state by 13
beat 5-1 Ithaca by 31
lost to 4-1 hartwick by 3
lost to 6-1 Salisbury by 6
beat 2-5 Norwich by 39
+44

total record not with other team=19-13

these teams are pretty equal... but if you look at the whole picture Fishers win over Ithaca is gonna be their big win... and it is looking like a solid solid win...

[Yanks 99]

dude... a 3 way tie is like dating your cousin... it sucks... but if I were the NCAA committie I would give Fisher the nod over Wick, because of fishers win over ithaca... the NCAA likes BIG point spread wins...

wick beat 1-6 WNEC by 32
lost to 5-1 Ithaca by 27
beat 4-3 Fisher by 3
beat 5-2 Alfred by 5
beat 2-4 becker by 37
+50
13-13


Fisher lost to 6-0 MUC by 30 (every other team has lost to MUC by 37 or more)
Fisher beat Buff State 0-6 buff state by 13
beat 5-1 Ithaca by 31
lost to 4-1 hartwick by 3
lost to 6-1 Salisbury by 6
beat 2-5 Norwich by 39
+44

total record not with other team=19-13

these teams are pretty equal... but if you look at the whole picture Fishers win over Ithaca is gonna be their big win... and it is looking like a solid solid win...

You are dreaming...you can't have it both ways...

You can't claim to have the toughest SOS because you played MUC and Salisbury, BUT not have it count because you lost to both teams...but still get credit for playing both teams...

Look...SJF's schedule is strong, no question...but assuming that IC gets the AQ...and it is looking that way if IC, SJF, and 'Wick win out...there is no way you get the Pool C over 'Wick.  Not with the same record in REGION and the fact that 'Wick won the head to head match up...at SJF...

If that happens, it would be a total injustice...unlike most, not all, of you Fisher fans I can definately admit if the roles were reversed, and SJF beat 'Wick head to head with the same circumstances involved, SJF should get the Pool C...

I am not talking about a 3-way tie.  I am talking about reality...reality that we all win out and IC, as it looks now, gets the E8 AQ.  You are talking yourself into a miracle here...and it shouldn't happen...

[Bombers798891]

Upstate...

I hate to burst your bubble...but there is no way a 7-3 Fisher team gets a Pool C bid over a 8-1 'Wick team...not with 'Wick having the head to head win...

Yanks--

I'd like to agree with you, but these NCAA people are tricky dogs. IC once went 8-2 in 1998 and lost out on a Pool B bid to an 8-2 TCNJ team that IC beat. And won't SJF's region record be 7-1? You just never know. Also, you mentioned that "We're talking about this year and not the past" but keep in mind that the NCAA selection comittee, even with their guidelines, are human. Fair or not, SJF does have a recent winning history in the NCAA's, whereas the 'Wick doesn't. That could play into it as well. Personally, I'd rather not see a three loss at-large team, but who knows.

IC has never lost a Pool B bid to TCNJ, TCNJ has always been in a Pool A conference so they would get either the Pool A bid or a Pool C bid.

Knight--

Sorry. Thought that you needed seven conference members to get an auto-bid. I could have sworn there was some sort of controversy back in 1998, but it was probably just IC people whining

[Yanks 99]

Upstate...

I hate to burst your bubble...but there is no way a 7-3 Fisher team gets a Pool C bid over a 8-1 'Wick team...not with 'Wick having the head to head win...

Yanks--

I'd like to agree with you, but these NCAA people are tricky dogs. IC once went 8-2 in 1998 and lost out on a Pool B bid to an 8-2 TCNJ team that IC beat. And won't SJF's region record be 7-1? You just never know. Also, you mentioned that "We're talking about this year and not the past" but keep in mind that the NCAA selection comittee, even with their guidelines, are human. Fair or not, SJF does have a recent winning history in the NCAA's, whereas the 'Wick doesn't. That could play into it as well. Personally, I'd rather not see a three loss at-large team, but who knows.

IC has never lost a Pool B bid to TCNJ, TCNJ has always been in a Pool A conference so they would get either the Pool A bid or a Pool C bid.

Knight--

Sorry. Thought that you needed seven conference members to get an auto-bid. I could have sworn there was some sort of controversy back in 1998, but it was probably just IC people whining

That was before the NCAA's got everything together...

That year was a total injustice to IC...they were great that year.  I believe just one loss.  Wasn't Jeff Tremlett on that team?  He was a sick safety...almost as good as Amato if I recall...almost...

[superman57]

I'm not really worried about the schedules... but if you take out MUC and salisbury than my point differential is even better in fact fisher is +80 and hartwick is only +50... with basically identical strength of schedules