FB: Empire 8

[theoriginalupstate]

man, its getting deep in here...

I've got to get my hip waders on before i get into this...

[boobyhasgameyo]

It's D-III football. It's not life or death. How about enjoying your team, enjoying the game,

Some of us have higher expectations than the ECACs and losing to Cortland every season. . . .

Yeah, that makes great sense. Especially considering we beat Cortland and went to the NCAA's last season...

(Note: This next part is not directed at any other SJF fans on this board other than the one who responded to my post, most of whom, while I disagree with them, are at least respectful and factually based. I got nothing but love for you guys, and have been supportive of your program on these boards. But if this guy wants to throw stones, well...)

You know, next time you come up for a game, I'd be happy to show you our three National Championship trophies. Or, if you're ever near the College Football Hall of Fame, you can check out the nice little piece they have on the coach we put there. Spare me your "expectations" speech. What do you have, seven stright winning seasons now? That's nice. We just finished off our 38th. What, you think three trips to the NCAA's makes your team a powerhouse? You've never won a Stagg Bowl, never been to a Stagg Bowl--neither of which is likely to be accomplished this season. You've got an overall record of 188-157-5. We're 432-212-11, with the 4th best winning percentage in D-III history. Your program's "expectations" have been met, and exceeded numerous times by Ithaca College. Ithaca is one of the most storied programs in Division III. They were winning national championships when SJF was still a club team. The day your program accomplishes a fraction of what IC has is the day you can talk that kind of smack.

well no offense taken there lol.  even though it wasn't directed at me, i suddenly feel so small....

[Bombers798891]

It's D-III football. It's not life or death. How about enjoying your team, enjoying the game,

Some of us have higher expectations than the ECACs and losing to Cortland every season. . . .

Yeah, that makes great sense. Especially considering we beat Cortland and went to the NCAA's last season...

(Note: This next part is not directed at any other SJF fans on this board other than the one who responded to my post, most of whom, while I disagree with them, are at least respectful and factually based. I got nothing but love for you guys, and have been supportive of your program on these boards. But if this guy wants to throw stones, well...)

You know, next time you come up for a game, I'd be happy to show you our three National Championship trophies. Or, if you're ever near the College Football Hall of Fame, you can check out the nice little piece they have on the coach we put there. Spare me your "expectations" speech. What do you have, seven stright winning seasons now? That's nice. We just finished off our 38th. What, you think three trips to the NCAA's makes your team a powerhouse? You've never won a Stagg Bowl, never been to a Stagg Bowl--neither of which is likely to be accomplished this season. You've got an overall record of 188-157-5. We're 432-212-11, with the 4th best winning percentage in D-III history. Your program's "expectations" have been met, and exceeded numerous times by Ithaca College. Ithaca is one of the most storied programs in Division III. They were winning national championships when SJF was still a club team. The day your program accomplishes a fraction of what IC has is the day you can talk that kind of smack.

well no offense taken there lol.  even though it wasn't directed at me, i suddenly feel so small....

Hey, we're all good man. We disagree, but at least we have a healthy respect for each other's programs. When someone starts throwing stones about a program, they should expect it to be thrown back. And I'll put up IC's program against anyone except MUC and Whitewater. But as I said, I've been very impressed with the direction Fisher's program has taken in the last 5-6 years. But I've always been impressed more with consistency (The main reason I'm so reluctant to buy into the 'Wick) and I think it's kind of insulting when a guy insinuates IC's program is complacent with the ECAC's, especially when there's some belief that SJF's fans complaining is based in that they have standards for their program which we at IC don't.

Most of you guys are great football fans. It's sad that some of your fellow SJF buddies ruin that impression with their overwhelming negativity

[SJFF82]

It's D-III football. It's not life or death. How about enjoying your team, enjoying the game,

Some of us have higher expectations than the ECACs and losing to Cortland every season. . . .

Yeah, that makes great sense. Especially considering we beat Cortland and went to the NCAA's last season...

(Note: This next part is not directed at any other SJF fans on this board other than the one who responded to my post, most of whom, while I disagree with them, are at least respectful and factually based. I got nothing but love for you guys, and have been supportive of your program on these boards. But if this guy wants to throw stones, well...)

You know, next time you come up for a game, I'd be happy to show you our three National Championship trophies. Or, if you're ever near the College Football Hall of Fame, you can check out the nice little piece they have on the coach we put there. Spare me your "expectations" speech. What do you have, seven stright winning seasons now? That's nice. We just finished off our 38th. What, you think three trips to the NCAA's makes your team a powerhouse? You've never won a Stagg Bowl, never been to a Stagg Bowl--neither of which is likely to be accomplished this season. You've got an overall record of 188-157-5. We're 432-212-11, with the 4th best winning percentage in D-III history. Your program's "expectations" have been met, and exceeded numerous times by Ithaca College. Ithaca is one of the most storied programs in Division III. They were winning national championships when SJF was still a club team. The day your program accomplishes a fraction of what IC has is the day you can talk that kind of smack.

Yeh but...well, nevermind....[we have won 3 out of 4]....oops

[SJF Fan]

We disagree, but at least we have a healthy respect for each other's programs.

The healthy respect you refer to only seemed to magically appear after IC got waxed  3 out of the last 4. .

All I'm saying is, well, all I originally said was, a better defensive scheme to close a game out would have had the Fish in a much better situation than they find themselves in now.  The D-Coach is a bit new. 

[SJF Fan]

In fact, I don't think a single team in the E8 is utterly dominant. But we've got four good teams (SJF, IC, Alfred and Hartwick)  and that's not too shabby

Consistently yes, I think Springfield is better than their record shows, and am willing to bet that Utica is getting ready and gearing up to make its first run up the ladder over the next 2 to 3 seasons. .

[superman57]

We disagree, but at least we have a healthy respect for each other's programs.

The healthy respect you refer to only seemed to magically appear after IC got waxed  3 out of the last 4. .

All I'm saying is, well, all I originally said was, a better defensive scheme to close a game out would have had the Fish in a much better situation than they find themselves in now.  The D-Coach is a bit new. 

dude chill out..  Fisher has made the NCAA's 3 times...  It's not like we are Mount Union 5 years ago we were exstatic to make the ECAC's

[SJF Fan]

dude chill out..  Fisher has made the NCAA's 3 times...  It's not like we are Mount Union 5 years ago we were exstatic to make the ECAC's

I'm already chilled. Its windy, its cold, and my wife hasn't adjusted the thermostat . .

Supe - have you seen some games this year - and haven't you noticed that we don't seem to be as aggressive in the 4th qtr compared to the first 3?

[AUPepBand]

Pep would have to comment that IC has never been complacent with ECACs. In fact, Pep recalls (and correct me, IC fans if Pep is wrong here) that in a recent season that turned out less than had been expected, the team VOTED NOT to participate in ECAC while failing to make NCAAs.

Pep has a deep respect for the Ithaca program because it was built by one classy Jim Butterfield, who, in his early years, had some tough times as IC played the West Chesters, Bridgeports, CW Posts, American Int'l, but who set the bar pretty high for the rest of Upstate NY small college football.

Butterfield's program peaked at an opportune time with the establishment of the NCAA Division III National Championship playoffs. Had the D3 party started in the early '50s, the bulldog-faced Alex Yunevich no doubt would have had his boys at Alfred vying for the last dance as he had back-to-back unbeaten seasons in 1955-56.

In Alex's last year at Alfred, in 1976, Pep remembers the game at South Hill Field that Lois described in Wasn't That Fun as "boring." You see, Alex put all his athletes on the defensive side of the ball with the philosophical approach of "If we can keep our opponent from scoring, we have a better shot of winning." In that game at Ithaca, the Saxons took advantage of an IC miscue and scored a field goal in the first quarter. That lead held up until the final minute, when the Bombers covered just enough real estate to get their kicker lined up for a game-tying field goal. Final: Alfred 3, Ithaca 3.

A week or so later, AU went to Canton to take on what was then a national powerhouse St. Lawrence team and, on a cold day with high winds across Weeks Field, the Saxons once again got an early field goal to take a 3-0 lead. With the Larries in Saxon territory for most of the fourth quarter, AU somehow kept the Larries out of the end zone and, with backs to the wall, took an intentional safety to get better field position. Final: Alfred 3, SLU 2.

At Alfred, while the Saxons are 6-for-6 in ECAC championships, the goal is always the NCAAs, achieved in 1981 when AU went 10-0.

[SJFF82]

Pep would have to comment that IC has never been complacent with ECACs. In fact, Pep recalls (and correct me, IC fans if Pep is wrong here) that in a recent season that turned out less than had been expected, the team VOTED NOT to participate in ECAC while failing to make NCAAs.

Pep has a deep respect for the Ithaca program because it was built by one classy Jim Butterfield, who, in his early years, had some tough times as IC played the West Chesters, Bridgeports, CW Posts, American Int'l, but who set the bar pretty high for the rest of Upstate NY small college football.

Butterfield's program peaked at an opportune time with the establishment of the NCAA Division III National Championship playoffs. Had the D3 party started in the early '50s, the bulldog-faced Alex Yunevich no doubt would have had his boys at Alfred vying for the last dance as he had back-to-back unbeaten seasons in 1955-56.

In Alex's last year at Alfred, in 1976, Pep remembers the game at South Hill Field that Lois described in Wasn't That Fun as "boring." You see, Alex put all his athletes on the defensive side of the ball with the philosophical approach of "If we can keep our opponent from scoring, we have a better shot of winning." In that game at Ithaca, the Saxons took advantage of an IC miscue and scored a field goal in the first quarter. That lead held up until the final minute, when the Bombers mustered covered just enough real estate to get their kicker lined up for a game-tying field goal. Final: Alfred 3, Ithaca 3.

A week or so later, AU went to Canton to take on what was then a national powerhouse St. Lawrence team and, on a cold day with high winds across Weeks Field, the Saxons once again got an early field goal to take a 3-0 lead. With the Larries in Saxon territory for most of the fourth quarter, AU somehow kept the Larries out of the end zone and, with backs to the wall, took an intentional safety to get better field position. Final: Alfred 3, SLU 2.

At Alfred, while the Saxons are 6-for-6 in ECAC championships, the goal is always the NCAAs, achieved in 1981 when AU went 10-0.

And now you know....the....rest....of the story....

[superman57]

dude chill out..  Fisher has made the NCAA's 3 times...  It's not like we are Mount Union 5 years ago we were exstatic to make the ECAC's

I'm already chilled. Its windy, its cold, and my wife hasn't adjusted the thermostat . .

Supe - have you seen some games this year - and haven't you noticed that we don't seem to be as aggressive in the 4th qtr compared to the first 3?

question for you... how many points did fisher score in the 4th quater vs. Ithaca.... (14) and the issues with you and your wife should probably stay off of the message boards

[SJF Fan]

question for you... how many points did fisher score in the 4th quater vs. Ithaca.... (14) and the issues with you and your wife should probably stay off of the message boards

I'm sorry I should have been more specific - I have been referring to the Defense.

[Bombers798891]

We disagree, but at least we have a healthy respect for each other's programs.

The healthy respect you refer to only seemed to magically appear after IC got waxed  3 out of the last 4. .

All I'm saying is, well, all I originally said was, a better defensive scheme to close a game out would have had the Fish in a much better situation than they find themselves in now.  The D-Coach is a bit new. 

Actually, I've never said anything bad about the Fisher program. They just haven't been very good on the field for very long, and that's a fact. While you don't mock the teams, it basically means they aren't on your radar. It's really only been a competitive game for the past 4-5 years. Buffalo State used to be the same way. First they were awful, and IC didn't really worry about them. Then they became a great team, and a rival to Ithaca, and you have to respect that they could--and often did beat IC. Utica would be another example. They've got a great coach, an IC alum, and they always play hard. But they're not very good, and it's a little difficult to get amped up for a game that, in all fairness, you know you're going to win. From 1999-2001 we beat you three times by a combined score of 138-14 while you went 5-24. It wasn't that there was a lack of respect. We didn't mock you guys in sports radio meetings. It was that, in the grand scheme of things, we were more concerned with Buffalo State, Brockport State and Cortland State.

Remember, once upon a time, it was Fisher that was getting waxed by Ithaca on a regular basis. Things have a way of going up an down. It's not always going to be a trip to the NCAA semifinals, and fans who go off on teams for having one bad season should exert patience. It's not about lowered expectations at all. It's about understanding that we're dealing with 18-21 year old kids, roughly 25% of whom have never played college ball before, who all have a whole lot more going on in their lives than football, and to constantly be critical of these kids really serves no purpose.

I remember once, after IC lost to Brockport State, one of our players famously threw the QB under the bus in a radio interview, and I remember thinking "Really, how does that help anything? 6 months from now, after you've graduated and are doing something not football related, are you going to be glad you said that?"

As far as the coaching staff goes, I would question how many long-time assistants there are floating around the D-III level. Really, I know there have been long time Head Coaches, but to me, I would always imagine that a lot of the assistants are guys looking to get their first job, first stepping stone up. I could be wrong, but I've always assumed that the D-III level is where coordinators start, and not end up

[Bombers798891]

I guess there's a few different ways to "respect" a team

1) The first, most basic way, is "Hey, this team plays clean, plays hard and their coaches/staff program really do things the right way." I have that kind of respect for every team IC plays. In fact, I recently sent a e-mail to SJF's Althetic Director  praising him for having an incredibly handicapped accessable stadium. When he responded and told me if I ever needed anything, to let him know, I sent an e-mail to the president praising the AD. As I told them both, the SJF athletic department, in a lot of ways, puts IC's to shame

2) The second is completely football related. It's, "Man, this team is good, and if we don't bring our A game, we're going to get whipped". And yes, that's been a recent development with regard to Fisher. But I think it's natural. There are only so many teams you can have that for. Look at it this way. Against Norwich, IC didn't play their sharpest game. They turned the ball over five times. They missed an extra point, and had a field goal blocked. They played this game on the road. And they still won by 35 points. I've got nothing against Norwich's program as a whole. But from a strictly football standpoint, I don't look at them as being a challenge. Even when Ithaca played poorly, they still beat them easily, just like they had the previous four years. So it's hard for me to look at the Norwich football program and admit that they're a challenge because they haven't showed that. 

SJF used to be that way, but they are no longer. In fact, my level of respect for that football team is one of "Well, we may play our A game and still lose. But if we don't bring the A game, we'll be blown off the field." That's what has happened recently. But no, I haven't always felt that way about SJF. But that doesn't mean I sat there mocking them.

[dewcrew88]

I guess there's a few different ways to "respect" a team

1) The first, most basic way, is "Hey, this team plays clean, plays hard and their coaches/staff program really do things the right way." I have that kind of respect for every team IC plays. In fact, I recently sent a e-mail to SJF's Althetic Director  praising him for having an incredibly handicapped accessable stadium. When he responded and told me if I ever needed anything, to let him know, I sent an e-mail to the president praising the AD. As I told them both, the SJF athletic department, in a lot of ways, puts IC's to shame

2) The second is completely football related. It's, "Man, this team is good, and if we don't bring our A game, we're going to get whipped". And yes, that's been a recent development with regard to Fisher. But I think it's natural. There are only so many teams you can have that for. Look at it this way. Against Norwich, IC didn't play their sharpest game. They turned the ball over five times. They missed an extra point, and had a field goal blocked. They played this game on the road. And they still won by 35 points. I've got nothing against Norwich's program as a whole. But from a strictly football standpoint, I don't look at them as being a challenge. Even when Ithaca played poorly, they still beat them easily, just like they had the previous four years. So it's hard for me to look at the Norwich football program and admit that they're a challenge because they haven't showed that. 

SJF used to be that way, but they are no longer. In fact, my level of respect for that football team is one of "Well, we may play our A game and still lose. But if we don't bring the A game, we'll be blown off the field." That's what has happened recently. But no, I haven't always felt that way about SJF. But that doesn't mean I sat there mocking them.

Re: Point No. 1 -- I've dealt with coaches and sports information staff from both schools, and both have been nothing but terrific for me, helping me out, giving me anything I needed to write a story or get a fact, etc.