FB: Empire 8

[Jonny Utah]

isnt it funny that i have disliked wick since 1987.
when after choosing fisher over wick - i got not one but two nasty phone calls saying that i was making a mistake----and so began fa91's road to disliking hartwick college

We're you playing field hockey? Cause Wick didn't have a football team untill 1992.

I was thinking the same thing.

[fisheralum91]

hey tool (kon artist) i played soccer i never said that it was specific to the football team

[maxpower]

max, you are completely mis-quoting me in your tagline.

Politics is a bitch LD. Also, that was before the election.



Eh, I've been meaning to change it anyway.

[lewdogg11]

max, you are completely mis-quoting me in your tagline.

Politics is a bitch LD. Also, that was before the election.



Eh, I've been meaning to change it anyway.

The quote was right, the context was way off.  Didn't want to be put into the same category as a lot of posters on the LL board...

[KonArtist33]

hey tool (kon artist) i played soccer i never said that it was specific to the football team

Soccer? And I'm the tool?

[union89]

hey tool (kon artist) i played soccer i never said that it was specific to the football team

Thanks for claifying....usually when I say, "Hey Tool.......", I'm referring to Johnny Utah....

[maxpower]

max, you are completely mis-quoting me in your tagline.

Politics is a bitch LD. Also, that was before the election.



Eh, I've been meaning to change it anyway.

The quote was right, the context was way off.  Didn't want to be put into the same category as a lot of posters on the LL board...

Agreed. I'm your biggest fan over there, anyway.

hey tool (kon artist) i played soccer i never said that it was specific to the football team

Soccer? And I'm the tool?

+k

[union89]

max, you are completely mis-quoting me in your tagline.

Politics is a bitch LD. Also, that was before the election.



Eh, I've been meaning to change it anyway.

The quote was right, the context was way off.  Didn't want to be put into the same category as a lot of posters on the LL board...

You WISH you were in that category.......

[lewdogg11]

max, you are completely mis-quoting me in your tagline.

Politics is a bitch LD. Also, that was before the election.



Eh, I've been meaning to change it anyway.

The quote was right, the context was way off.  Didn't want to be put into the same category as a lot of posters on the LL board...

You WISH you were in that category.......

You are so right,,,



U89 preparing for his LL Clan Meeting

[union89]

max, you are completely mis-quoting me in your tagline.

Politics is a bitch LD. Also, that was before the election.



Eh, I've been meaning to change it anyway.

The quote was right, the context was way off.  Didn't want to be put into the same category as a lot of posters on the LL board...

You WISH you were in that category.......

You are so right,,,



U89 preparing for his LL Clan Meeting

Don't be mean....Maxpower is your biggest fan and does not like when people are mean to one another.

[maxpower]

Hey, I just only like it when I am being mean to OTHERS.

[union89]

Hey, I just only like it when I am being mean to OTHERS.

+1

[XDragon59]

I've always hated that logic Bomber fans bring to Cortaca..."Throw out the records"...the reason we don't want people to know the records is simple...That way, when Bomber teams that have no business losing to Cortland do so, it's an excuse to use, rather than admitting the team underachieved and blew it.

For Example:

1996: A 6-1 IC team--whose only loss was to a D-II AIC, goes to a Cortland team that would end up 6-4 and lose by 28.
1999: 7-1 Bombers face a 4-4 Cortland team in Ithaca, lead 21-7 at the half, lose 26-21
2003: #14 8-1 Bombers face an unranked 4-4 Cortland team at home, lose 16-15
2005: #13 Ithaca faces an "also recieving votes" Cortland at home with a chance to secure a home NCAA playoff game, play a godawful first half, lose in OT

Those are four instances in which a clearly superior IC team lost to a Cortland team that was mediocre.  By contrast, almost all of the recent IC wins have been when IC had a clearly better team:

1998: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 4-6
2000: IC finishes 7-3, Cortland 4-6
2001: IC finishes 11-2, Cortland 5-5
2004: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 5-4

None of these finishes should be suprising. It was the better team winning.

Last season might be the only time in the last 15 years that you could possibly argue a better Cortland team was upset by an Ithaca team.  There are games where the talent level is close, and those games tend to go both ways: IC in 1995, Cortland in 1997, Cortland in 2002. But all the "shockers" are Cortland topping IC. If IC wins this year, maybe I'll change my tune. But mostly, I believe the "anything can happen" line is an excuse from IC fans

I don't think you're giving a lot of those C-State teams enough credit....and you can hate that logic all you want, but that doesn't mean the hype and atmosphere of the games have an effect on them.  As cliche as it is, at any level, Rivalry games always are crazy.  I think a great example of this for the Bombers is the years that they had a letdown game vs Buff State in the week after Cortaca.

Whether is Cortaca, the shoes, Johnnie-Tommie, etc....I don't think it's an excuse, I think it's understanding that it's the biggest game of the season.

But the question is, shouldn't the hype and atomsphere have the same effect on teams? It's their rivalry game as much as ours.

I'm not saying those Cortland teams were bad. But, I am saying that there's this mentality from both sides--although I, obviously, only see it from the IC side--that, heading into the game, we can't admit that one team is better than the other because it's a "Rivalry game". I'm a Michigan State fan. Their biggest rival is Michigan. Was their game this season a rivalry game? Yeah. But that doesn't mean that Michigan State should be getting undue congrats for winning it. They were clearly the better team, rivalry game or no. They SHOULD have won the game, so I can't go that nuts over the win

You cannot tell me, for example, that IC wasn't the better team heading into that 2003 game. They'd already beaten a playoff bound Brockprot team by 21. Brockport had beaten Cortland already (IC was the only team to beat Brockport that season). They also beat a SJF team that went 8-3 and wound up beating Cortland. Seriously, Cortland needed a TD with 5 seconds to go to beat a 1-9 William Patterson team. They also only beat 1-9 Kean by three points...they were not that good. Ithaca went to the National QF's that season...Ithaca was the better team.

Also, Dragon, Cortland was an independant in 1999, but playing a lot of NJAC schools...here were their other four wins that year:

0-9 Kean
3-7 Jersey City
2-8 William Patterson
4-6 Springfield

9-30 Total

That's four wins over teams that were terrible. Ithaca's wins weren't terribly impressive, but they did have a win over D-II Mansfield, and Brockport and Hobart teams that finished above .500. The ONLY good team Cortland beat that season was IC. But Ithaca had already beaten better teams than Cortland.

In 2005, other than IC, Cortland's best win came against 6-4 Western Connecticut. IC had already beaten Alfred and SJF. Both teams beat Brockport that year, but their only other common opponent was Buff St. IC won that game by 17, Cortland lost by 7.

I think my argument would be that when Cortland had a more talented team, and this is debateable, in 2002 and 2006, you could make the argument that IC almost pulled upsets.  Then there were years in which Cortland's record wasn't as good like 2001, but the way that team had been playing going into the IC game I would say we were equal.  In 2001, we beat Rowan, lost  close games to BPort and Montclair and lost in the upset of all upsets at William Paterson.  That being said, that team could really score points and the IC game might have been different if not for the brilliant IC strategy of slow playing the ends which we had not seen against our option to that point.

[Findtheball]

 me too !

[XDragon59]

I've always hated that logic Bomber fans bring to Cortaca..."Throw out the records"...the reason we don't want people to know the records is simple...That way, when Bomber teams that have no business losing to Cortland do so, it's an excuse to use, rather than admitting the team underachieved and blew it.

For Example:

1996: A 6-1 IC team--whose only loss was to a D-II AIC, goes to a Cortland team that would end up 6-4 and lose by 28.
1999: 7-1 Bombers face a 4-4 Cortland team in Ithaca, lead 21-7 at the half, lose 26-21
2003: #14 8-1 Bombers face an unranked 4-4 Cortland team at home, lose 16-15
2005: #13 Ithaca faces an "also recieving votes" Cortland at home with a chance to secure a home NCAA playoff game, play a godawful first half, lose in OT

Those are four instances in which a clearly superior IC team lost to a Cortland team that was mediocre.  By contrast, almost all of the recent IC wins have been when IC had a clearly better team:

1998: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 4-6
2000: IC finishes 7-3, Cortland 4-6
2001: IC finishes 11-2, Cortland 5-5
2004: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 5-4

None of these finishes should be suprising. It was the better team winning.

Last season might be the only time in the last 15 years that you could possibly argue a better Cortland team was upset by an Ithaca team.  There are games where the talent level is close, and those games tend to go both ways: IC in 1995, Cortland in 1997, Cortland in 2002. But all the "shockers" are Cortland topping IC. If IC wins this year, maybe I'll change my tune. But mostly, I believe the "anything can happen" line is an excuse from IC fans

I don't think you're giving a lot of those C-State teams enough credit....and you can hate that logic all you want, but that doesn't mean the hype and atmosphere of the games have an effect on them.  As cliche as it is, at any level, Rivalry games always are crazy.  I think a great example of this for the Bombers is the years that they had a letdown game vs Buff State in the week after Cortaca.

Whether is Cortaca, the shoes, Johnnie-Tommie, etc....I don't think it's an excuse, I think it's understanding that it's the biggest game of the season.

But the question is, shouldn't the hype and atomsphere have the same effect on teams? It's their rivalry game as much as ours.

I'm not saying those Cortland teams were bad. But, I am saying that there's this mentality from both sides--although I, obviously, only see it from the IC side--that, heading into the game, we can't admit that one team is better than the other because it's a "Rivalry game". I'm a Michigan State fan. Their biggest rival is Michigan. Was their game this season a rivalry game? Yeah. But that doesn't mean that Michigan State should be getting undue congrats for winning it. They were clearly the better team, rivalry game or no. They SHOULD have won the game, so I can't go that nuts over the win

You cannot tell me, for example, that IC wasn't the better team heading into that 2003 game. They'd already beaten a playoff bound Brockprot team by 21. Brockport had beaten Cortland already (IC was the only team to beat Brockport that season). They also beat a SJF team that went 8-3 and wound up beating Cortland. Seriously, Cortland needed a TD with 5 seconds to go to beat a 1-9 William Patterson team. They also only beat 1-9 Kean by three points...they were not that good. Ithaca went to the National QF's that season...Ithaca was the better team.

Also, Dragon, Cortland was an independant in 1999, but playing a lot of NJAC schools...here were their other four wins that year:

0-9 Kean
3-7 Jersey City
2-8 William Patterson
4-6 Springfield

9-30 Total

That's four wins over teams that were terrible. Ithaca's wins weren't terribly impressive, but they did have a win over D-II Mansfield, and Brockport and Hobart teams that finished above .500. The ONLY good team Cortland beat that season was IC. But Ithaca had already beaten better teams than Cortland.

In 2005, other than IC, Cortland's best win came against 6-4 Western Connecticut. IC had already beaten Alfred and SJF. Both teams beat Brockport that year, but their only other common opponent was Buff St. IC won that game by 17, Cortland lost by 7.

Bombers,

One other thing, in 1999, IC had wins over Fisher, Mansfield, St. Lawrence, and Hobart, let's just say Cortland played those teams that season, they would have had a similar record.  As the other poster noted, we played at Wash and Jefferson, Rowan and Montclair when they were both loaded and lost to an NCAA-bound Buff State.  2000 is another story, IC probably had the better team but that series first and goal with less than a minute left still haunts me.