FB: Empire 8

[JQV]

you couldn't be more Southern.

+k.

As an ex-linemen, it is almost heresy to admit that anything about the soccer is good. I will admit however that it is a great way for us fat people to get back into shape.

I don't understand this post either.  Are there multiple linemen in soccer?

[theoriginalupstate]

you couldn't be more Southern.

+k.

As an ex-linemen, it is almost heresy to admit that anything about the soccer is good. I will admit however that it is a great way for us fat people to get back into shape.

I don't understand this post either.  Are there multiple linemen in soccer?

Isnt a lineman in soccer considered the person that stands in front of the line at the net?

[AUKaz00]

you couldn't be more Southern.

+k.

As an ex-linemen, it is almost heresy to admit that anything about the soccer is good. I will admit however that it is a great way for us fat people to get back into shape.

I don't understand this post either.  Are there multiple linemen in soccer?

Isnt a lineman in soccer considered the person that stands in front of the line at the net?

He's the dude who runs along the side of the pitch carrying a bright colored flag.  So, yeah, being one of the linesman would be a good way to trim down.

[union89]

you couldn't be more Southern.

+k.

As an ex-linemen, it is almost heresy to admit that anything about the soccer is good. I will admit however that it is a great way for us fat people to get back into shape.

I don't understand this post either.  Are there multiple linemen in soccer?

Isnt a lineman in soccer considered the person that stands in front of the line at the net?

He's the dude who runs along the side of the pitch carrying a bright colored flag.  So, yeah, being one of the linesman would be a good way to trim down.

Wow, I hate to admit it, but this conversation could be more random than most we have over in LLPP......

[JQV]

He's the dude who runs along the side of the pitch carrying a bright colored flag.  So, yeah, being one of the linesman would be a good way to trim down.

They pitch in soccer?  The only way this could confuse me more is if it were in spanish...

[realistic]

hahaha

[theoriginalupstate]

you couldn't be more Southern.

+k.

As an ex-linemen, it is almost heresy to admit that anything about the soccer is good. I will admit however that it is a great way for us fat people to get back into shape.

I don't understand this post either.  Are there multiple linemen in soccer?

Isnt a lineman in soccer considered the person that stands in front of the line at the net?

He's the dude who runs along the side of the pitch carrying a bright colored flag.  So, yeah, being one of the linesman would be a good way to trim down.

commish, i was making reference to the goalie, trying to be completely clueless about the sport...

[AUKaz00]

you couldn't be more Southern.

+k.

As an ex-linemen, it is almost heresy to admit that anything about the soccer is good. I will admit however that it is a great way for us fat people to get back into shape.

I don't understand this post either.  Are there multiple linemen in soccer?

Isnt a lineman in soccer considered the person that stands in front of the line at the net?

He's the dude who runs along the side of the pitch carrying a bright colored flag.  So, yeah, being one of the linesman would be a good way to trim down.

commish, i was making reference to the goalie, trying to be completely clueless about the sport...

I understand.  I'm just glad that I was able to steer today's conversation directly off the road and thus break up all the tension we're feeling before the big Norwich-Utica game tomorrow...

[theoriginalupstate]

I understand.  I'm just glad that I was able to steer today's conversation directly off the road and thus break up all the tension we're feeling before the big Norwich-Utica game tomorrow...

I know, im sure Coach Faggiano has been suffering some sleepless nights because of it...

Utica by 17...

[maxpower]

You Fisher guys act like real fans, but none of you could "get up" with as much enthusiasm as the Texas Tech bell ringer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I-4XS3XtZQ

[XDragon59]

I've always hated that logic Bomber fans bring to Cortaca..."Throw out the records"...the reason we don't want people to know the records is simple...That way, when Bomber teams that have no business losing to Cortland do so, it's an excuse to use, rather than admitting the team underachieved and blew it.

For Example:

1996: A 6-1 IC team--whose only loss was to a D-II AIC, goes to a Cortland team that would end up 6-4 and lose by 28.
1999: 7-1 Bombers face a 4-4 Cortland team in Ithaca, lead 21-7 at the half, lose 26-21
2003: #14 8-1 Bombers face an unranked 4-4 Cortland team at home, lose 16-15
2005: #13 Ithaca faces an "also recieving votes" Cortland at home with a chance to secure a home NCAA playoff game, play a godawful first half, lose in OT

Those are four instances in which a clearly superior IC team lost to a Cortland team that was mediocre.  By contrast, almost all of the recent IC wins have been when IC had a clearly better team:

1998: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 4-6
2000: IC finishes 7-3, Cortland 4-6
2001: IC finishes 11-2, Cortland 5-5
2004: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 5-4

None of these finishes should be suprising. It was the better team winning.

Last season might be the only time in the last 15 years that you could possibly argue a better Cortland team was upset by an Ithaca team.  There are games where the talent level is close, and those games tend to go both ways: IC in 1995, Cortland in 1997, Cortland in 2002. But all the "shockers" are Cortland topping IC. If IC wins this year, maybe I'll change my tune. But mostly, I believe the "anything can happen" line is an excuse from IC fans

I don't think you're giving a lot of those C-State teams enough credit....and you can hate that logic all you want, but that doesn't mean the hype and atmosphere of the games have an effect on them.  As cliche as it is, at any level, Rivalry games always are crazy.  I think a great example of this for the Bombers is the years that they had a letdown game vs Buff State in the week after Cortaca.

Whether is Cortaca, the shoes, Johnnie-Tommie, etc....I don't think it's an excuse, I think it's understanding that it's the biggest game of the season.

But the question is, shouldn't the hype and atomsphere have the same effect on teams? It's their rivalry game as much as ours.

I'm not saying those Cortland teams were bad. But, I am saying that there's this mentality from both sides--although I, obviously, only see it from the IC side--that, heading into the game, we can't admit that one team is better than the other because it's a "Rivalry game". I'm a Michigan State fan. Their biggest rival is Michigan. Was their game this season a rivalry game? Yeah. But that doesn't mean that Michigan State should be getting undue congrats for winning it. They were clearly the better team, rivalry game or no. They SHOULD have won the game, so I can't go that nuts over the win

You cannot tell me, for example, that IC wasn't the better team heading into that 2003 game. They'd already beaten a playoff bound Brockprot team by 21. Brockport had beaten Cortland already (IC was the only team to beat Brockport that season). They also beat a SJF team that went 8-3 and wound up beating Cortland. Seriously, Cortland needed a TD with 5 seconds to go to beat a 1-9 William Patterson team. They also only beat 1-9 Kean by three points...they were not that good. Ithaca went to the National QF's that season...Ithaca was the better team.

Also, Dragon, Cortland was an independant in 1999, but playing a lot of NJAC schools...here were their other four wins that year:

0-9 Kean
3-7 Jersey City
2-8 William Patterson
4-6 Springfield

9-30 Total

That's four wins over teams that were terrible. Ithaca's wins weren't terribly impressive, but they did have a win over D-II Mansfield, and Brockport and Hobart teams that finished above .500. The ONLY good team Cortland beat that season was IC. But Ithaca had already beaten better teams than Cortland.

In 2005, other than IC, Cortland's best win came against 6-4 Western Connecticut. IC had already beaten Alfred and SJF. Both teams beat Brockport that year, but their only other common opponent was Buff St. IC won that game by 17, Cortland lost by 7.

Bombers,

One other thing, in 1999, IC had wins over Fisher, Mansfield, St. Lawrence, and Hobart, let's just say Cortland played those teams that season, they would have had a similar record.  As the other poster noted, we played at Wash and Jefferson, Rowan and Montclair when they were both loaded and lost to an NCAA-bound Buff State.  2000 is another story, IC probably had the better team but that series first and goal with less than a minute left still haunts me.

1) But, the point is that all those good teams you played in 1999 you lost to. The only decent team you DID beat was probably IC. IC wasn't a great team, but they were better than the other teams you beat...I will concede perhaps the talent level was closer than I first gave you credit for. But was Cortland definitively better?

2) I can't really buy the 2001 argument. Again, look at your wins:

Buffalo State: 1-8
Jersey City: 1-8
Rowan: 11-2
Kean: 2-7
Utica: 0-8

Yes, the Rowan win was impressive, but those other four teams went a combined 4-31. Now, Ithaca didn't beat anyone terribly impressive...although they destroyed a 5-1 Hobart team 52-13. Again, maybe it was closer than I give it credit for, but come on. This IC team was coming off three wins by an average score of 50-11.. They were flying. There's no way Cortland was the better team, or that this game was a coin flip. IC went into that game knowing they needed to go to the playoffs. Ithaca wound up beating Montclair and RPI on the road with their backup QB in the playoffs

3) As you said, Cortland was better in 2002 and 2006...and they won both games...

4) There's still no defense for '03 and '05.

So, I guess, my main question still stands: When was the last time IC upset a clearly better Cortland team? Has it ever really happened? As I said, there are games that are even, or roughly even, and they can go both ways...but anytime something unexpected happens, it's Cortland upsetting IC

Good argument Bombers not trying to beat a dead horse, but your argument is interesting and I want to add in that for 2001, looking at common opponents, we both crushed Utica, both beat Buff State, both lost to Port, which you guys lost at home.  You did beat Montclair who we lost to at home which I give you credit for, and I was at the RPI game that year being an Albany native, and couldn't help but think that we would have beaten them too, big even.  The difference was we beat Rowan and they won big in the playoff over you guys.  Ultimately you beat us but we had the ball with a chance at the end.  I just honestly think we were an even match that year. I guess old soldiers never die-some of those games still irk us.  Good luck this week, hoping for a big clash next weekend with alot at stake!

[Bombers798891]

I've always hated that logic Bomber fans bring to Cortaca..."Throw out the records"...the reason we don't want people to know the records is simple...That way, when Bomber teams that have no business losing to Cortland do so, it's an excuse to use, rather than admitting the team underachieved and blew it.

For Example:

1996: A 6-1 IC team--whose only loss was to a D-II AIC, goes to a Cortland team that would end up 6-4 and lose by 28.
1999: 7-1 Bombers face a 4-4 Cortland team in Ithaca, lead 21-7 at the half, lose 26-21
2003: #14 8-1 Bombers face an unranked 4-4 Cortland team at home, lose 16-15
2005: #13 Ithaca faces an "also recieving votes" Cortland at home with a chance to secure a home NCAA playoff game, play a godawful first half, lose in OT

Those are four instances in which a clearly superior IC team lost to a Cortland team that was mediocre.  By contrast, almost all of the recent IC wins have been when IC had a clearly better team:

1998: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 4-6
2000: IC finishes 7-3, Cortland 4-6
2001: IC finishes 11-2, Cortland 5-5
2004: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 5-4

None of these finishes should be suprising. It was the better team winning.

Last season might be the only time in the last 15 years that you could possibly argue a better Cortland team was upset by an Ithaca team.  There are games where the talent level is close, and those games tend to go both ways: IC in 1995, Cortland in 1997, Cortland in 2002. But all the "shockers" are Cortland topping IC. If IC wins this year, maybe I'll change my tune. But mostly, I believe the "anything can happen" line is an excuse from IC fans

I don't think you're giving a lot of those C-State teams enough credit....and you can hate that logic all you want, but that doesn't mean the hype and atmosphere of the games have an effect on them.  As cliche as it is, at any level, Rivalry games always are crazy.  I think a great example of this for the Bombers is the years that they had a letdown game vs Buff State in the week after Cortaca.

Whether is Cortaca, the shoes, Johnnie-Tommie, etc....I don't think it's an excuse, I think it's understanding that it's the biggest game of the season.

But the question is, shouldn't the hype and atomsphere have the same effect on teams? It's their rivalry game as much as ours.

I'm not saying those Cortland teams were bad. But, I am saying that there's this mentality from both sides--although I, obviously, only see it from the IC side--that, heading into the game, we can't admit that one team is better than the other because it's a "Rivalry game". I'm a Michigan State fan. Their biggest rival is Michigan. Was their game this season a rivalry game? Yeah. But that doesn't mean that Michigan State should be getting undue congrats for winning it. They were clearly the better team, rivalry game or no. They SHOULD have won the game, so I can't go that nuts over the win

You cannot tell me, for example, that IC wasn't the better team heading into that 2003 game. They'd already beaten a playoff bound Brockprot team by 21. Brockport had beaten Cortland already (IC was the only team to beat Brockport that season). They also beat a SJF team that went 8-3 and wound up beating Cortland. Seriously, Cortland needed a TD with 5 seconds to go to beat a 1-9 William Patterson team. They also only beat 1-9 Kean by three points...they were not that good. Ithaca went to the National QF's that season...Ithaca was the better team.

Also, Dragon, Cortland was an independant in 1999, but playing a lot of NJAC schools...here were their other four wins that year:

0-9 Kean
3-7 Jersey City
2-8 William Patterson
4-6 Springfield

9-30 Total

That's four wins over teams that were terrible. Ithaca's wins weren't terribly impressive, but they did have a win over D-II Mansfield, and Brockport and Hobart teams that finished above .500. The ONLY good team Cortland beat that season was IC. But Ithaca had already beaten better teams than Cortland.

In 2005, other than IC, Cortland's best win came against 6-4 Western Connecticut. IC had already beaten Alfred and SJF. Both teams beat Brockport that year, but their only other common opponent was Buff St. IC won that game by 17, Cortland lost by 7.

Bombers,

One other thing, in 1999, IC had wins over Fisher, Mansfield, St. Lawrence, and Hobart, let's just say Cortland played those teams that season, they would have had a similar record.  As the other poster noted, we played at Wash and Jefferson, Rowan and Montclair when they were both loaded and lost to an NCAA-bound Buff State.  2000 is another story, IC probably had the better team but that series first and goal with less than a minute left still haunts me.

1) But, the point is that all those good teams you played in 1999 you lost to. The only decent team you DID beat was probably IC. IC wasn't a great team, but they were better than the other teams you beat...I will concede perhaps the talent level was closer than I first gave you credit for. But was Cortland definitively better?

2) I can't really buy the 2001 argument. Again, look at your wins:

Buffalo State: 1-8
Jersey City: 1-8
Rowan: 11-2
Kean: 2-7
Utica: 0-8

Yes, the Rowan win was impressive, but those other four teams went a combined 4-31. Now, Ithaca didn't beat anyone terribly impressive...although they destroyed a 5-1 Hobart team 52-13. Again, maybe it was closer than I give it credit for, but come on. This IC team was coming off three wins by an average score of 50-11.. They were flying. There's no way Cortland was the better team, or that this game was a coin flip. IC went into that game knowing they needed to go to the playoffs. Ithaca wound up beating Montclair and RPI on the road with their backup QB in the playoffs

3) As you said, Cortland was better in 2002 and 2006...and they won both games...

4) There's still no defense for '03 and '05.

So, I guess, my main question still stands: When was the last time IC upset a clearly better Cortland team? Has it ever really happened? As I said, there are games that are even, or roughly even, and they can go both ways...but anytime something unexpected happens, it's Cortland upsetting IC

Good argument Bombers not trying to beat a dead horse, but your argument is interesting and I want to add in that for 2001, looking at common opponents, we both crushed Utica, both beat Buff State, both lost to Port, which you guys lost at home.  You did beat Montclair who we lost to at home which I give you credit for, and I was at the RPI game that year being an Albany native, and couldn't help but think that we would have beaten them too, big even.  The difference was we beat Rowan and they won big in the playoff over you guys.  Ultimately you beat us but we had the ball with a chance at the end.  I just honestly think we were an even match that year. I guess old soldiers never die-some of those games still irk us.  Good luck this week, hoping for a big clash next weekend with alot at stake!

Rock on, brother! See you boys in a week!

[XDragon59]

Dear IC,

You guys need to destroy AU tomorrow, they shouldn't be in your league, our game next week is the armageddon we have been waiting on for about 20 years (before my playing days).  We will do our job, take care of business and show them what IC is all about and roll them BIG!

[Bombers798891]

Dear IC,

You guys need to destroy AU tomorrow, they shouldn't be in your league, our game next week is the armageddon we have been waiting on for about 20 years (before my playing days).  We will do our job, take care of business and show them what IC is all about and roll them BIG!

Dear Cortland,

Please be undefeated so if we choke tomorrow in Alfred, we can use you guys to try and sneak a Pool C bid. Also, let us beat you. Please? You're already in the playoffs. I want to go to a home playoff game. I'll give you a dollar

Armageddon? Were you around for the 1988 clashes

[XDragon59]

Dear IC,

You guys need to destroy AU tomorrow, they shouldn't be in your league, our game next week is the armageddon we have been waiting on for about 20 years (before my playing days).  We will do our job, take care of business and show them what IC is all about and roll them BIG!

Dear Cortland,

Please be undefeated so if we choke tomorrow in Alfred, we can use you guys to try and sneak a Pool C bid. Also, let us beat you. Please? You're already in the playoffs. I want to go to a home playoff game. I'll give you a dollar

Armageddon? Were you around for the 1988 clashes

Nah, I was there 99-02...DO NOT CHOKE, thats not an option.  I was coached by the great Czar, IC should roll them as a matter of history.  We used to kill them in every scrimmage....