FB: Empire 8

[theoriginalupstate]

OK...I'll ask it...predictions for the Alfred-Utica game this weekend?

No prediction from me or from SJFF82 ...going to be driving to 'Wick, with no internet, going to hope Wick neglects to post the score (unless of cousre Utica has prevailed) and going to root like AU lost...hopefully the team and the coaching staff takes the same approach.

Knowing Vos, I believe he will go into kickoff and coach the game having no idea what happened in the AU game.  There is no coaching decision that could change if he knew the outcome, so why bother...

GO CARDINALS!

EDIT:  Bull****....I am not going to be able to resist...who am I kidding....I had to know the sex of all my children and I am going to have to know the score of the AU game....anyone want to text me while I am driving to Wick?

I can keep ya updated...

PM me your number...

[BoSox0322]

How much does Manzer from Alfred play both ways?  Does he start on offense and defense?

[theoriginalupstate]

How much does Manzer from Alfred play both ways?  Does he start on offense and defense?

He has started both ways the past two weeks...

[Yanks 99]

New ATR East is posted! Playoff scenarios!

For AU-UC prediction, read the column!

No mention of Cortaca???  I better add good column too...and it was...

[wickfan]

How much does Manzer from Alfred play both ways?  Does he start on offense and defense?

He has started both ways the past two weeks...

He started against Hartwick.....played very well both ways....

[sjfcards]

New ATR East is posted! Playoff scenarios!

For AU-UC prediction, read the column!

Can someone/anyone with knowledge of how the selection commitee picks teams explain this to me:

"St. John Fisher is an interesting case, however. The Cardinals have three losses overall, but only one loss in-region. They fell to Mount Union and Salisbury, neither one being East teams. They also have the chance at the Empire 8 title and the automatic qualifier if Alfred loses to Utica and they beats Hartwick"

How much does the region really matter? I mean, it seems like with 3 losses, Fisher is way out of a shot at an at large bid. But, I have no idea how this stuff works. I know in Region games are more important, but who cares what you do in region, if the NCAA can just import a team from outside of the region into another (See MUC in the East).

I am just looking for an explanation of how it works. I really don't know, but I was thinking the only chance Fisher has to get in is to win and have AU lose this Saterday. Maybe I am reading into this comment the wrong way?

[Frank Rossi]

New ATR East is posted! Playoff scenarios!

For AU-UC prediction, read the column!

Can someone/anyone with knowledge of how the selection commitee picks teams explain this to me:

"St. John Fisher is an interesting case, however. The Cardinals have three losses overall, but only one loss in-region. They fell to Mount Union and Salisbury, neither one being East teams. They also have the chance at the Empire 8 title and the automatic qualifier if Alfred loses to Utica and they beats Hartwick"

How much does the region really matter. I mean it seems like with 3 losses Fisher is way out of a shot at an at large bid. But, I have no idea how this stuff works. I know in Region games are more important, but who cares what you do in region, if the NCAA can just import a team from outside of the region into another (See MUC in the East).

I am just looking for an explanation of how it works. I really don't know, but I was thinking the only chance Fisher has to get in is to win and have AU lose this Saterday.

There are two types of criteria reviewed by the Committee:  Primary and Secondary.  Primary Criteria include in-region results.  Secondary Criteria include all regional results.  The Committee is asked to use Secondary Criteria only if the use of Primary Criteria does not result in a clear choice when comparing teams.  Thus, out-of-region games should only be used if no clear pick can be made using only in-region games for comparison.

HOWEVER, last year, we learned from Committee Chair Dick Kaiser that the use of out-of-region games occurred much earlier than normal since the Committee's view was that use of only in-region numbers limited the universe of games to such a degree in football that it made true comparisons virtually impossible.  Thus, last year's Committee used Secondary Criteria much earlier than would have been expected.

Therefore, out-of-region considerations may be made early again this year, with some overlap in the 2008 and 2009 Committees.  The Advisory Committees that put out the weekly rankings seem to be suggesting some ignorance of the out-of-region games.  However, the ultimate deciders are the main Committee.  SJF's 3 total losses really do place the team behind the 8-ball, especially when the team would be considered against West, South and North Pool C candidates that have 1- or 2-overall losses this season.  SJF's only hope, I feel, is to hope for Utica to beat Alfred.  Otherwise, it's an ECAC season for SJF.

[SJFF82]

New ATR East is posted! Playoff scenarios!

For AU-UC prediction, read the column!

Can someone/anyone with knowledge of how the selection commitee picks teams explain this to me:

"St. John Fisher is an interesting case, however. The Cardinals have three losses overall, but only one loss in-region. They fell to Mount Union and Salisbury, neither one being East teams. They also have the chance at the Empire 8 title and the automatic qualifier if Alfred loses to Utica and they beats Hartwick"

How much does the region really matter. I mean it seems like with 3 losses Fisher is way out of a shot at an at large bid. But, I have no idea how this stuff works. I know in Region games are more important, but who cares what you do in region, if the NCAA can just import a team from outside of the region into another (See MUC in the East).

I am just looking for an explanation of how it works. I really don't know, but I was thinking the only chance Fisher has to get in is to win and have AU lose this Saterday.

There are two types of criteria reviewed by the Committee:  Primary and Secondary.  Primary Criteria include in-region results.  Secondary Criteria include all regional results.  The Committee is asked to use Secondary Criteria only if the use of Primary Criteria does not result in a clear choice when comparing teams.  Thus, out-of-region games should only be used if no clear pick can be made using only in-region games for comparison.

HOWEVER, last year, we learned from Committee Chair Dick Kaiser that the use of out-of-region games occurred much earlier than normal since the Committee's view was that use of only in-region numbers limited the universe of games to such a degree in football that it made true comparisons virtually impossible.  Thus, last year's Committee used Secondary Criteria much earlier than would have been expected.

Therefore, out-of-region considerations may be made early again this year, with some overlap in the 2008 and 2009 Committees.  The Advisory Committees that put out the weekly rankings seem to be suggesting some ignorance of the out-of-region games.  However, the ultimate deciders are the main Committee.  SJF's 3 total losses really do place the team behind the 8-ball, especially when the team would be considered against West, South and North Pool C candidates that have 1- or 2-overall losses this season.  SJF's only hope, I feel, is to hope for Utica to beat Alfred.  Otherwise, it's an ECAC season for SJF.

no argument to be made...in region or out of region...they picked their schedule knowing that they were starting the season 0-1.  Knowing that they had to travel to Salisbury and knowing they still had to face IC, SC and Wick on the road....ironically they may go 3-0 in those games having lost the home contest to AU.

....also knowing they were only playing 9 games.   I certainly do not know a darn thing about 7-2  or 8-1 teams from the South and West, but it doesnt quite matter....you only win 6 games in a 32 team play-off system, and I dont care if you lost to MUC, UWW and Linfield...you made your bed, you lie in it.   This isnt D1 where you go .500 and you qualify for the Carfax Bowl....it's 6-3 and you qualify for a December trip to Maine to take on Husson in the Northeast ECAC championship game...and its good luck to AU.

Edit:  actually when they scheduled MUC, they probably had no idea that Norwich would be replaced by Salisbury...

[maxpower]

New ATR East is posted! Playoff scenarios!

For AU-UC prediction, read the column!

Can someone/anyone with knowledge of how the selection commitee picks teams explain this to me:

"St. John Fisher is an interesting case, however. The Cardinals have three losses overall, but only one loss in-region. They fell to Mount Union and Salisbury, neither one being East teams. They also have the chance at the Empire 8 title and the automatic qualifier if Alfred loses to Utica and they beats Hartwick"

How much does the region really matter. I mean it seems like with 3 losses Fisher is way out of a shot at an at large bid. But, I have no idea how this stuff works. I know in Region games are more important, but who cares what you do in region, if the NCAA can just import a team from outside of the region into another (See MUC in the East).

I am just looking for an explanation of how it works. I really don't know, but I was thinking the only chance Fisher has to get in is to win and have AU lose this Saterday.

There are two types of criteria reviewed by the Committee:  Primary and Secondary.  Primary Criteria include in-region results.  Secondary Criteria include all regional results.  The Committee is asked to use Secondary Criteria only if the use of Primary Criteria does not result in a clear choice when comparing teams.  Thus, out-of-region games should only be used if no clear pick can be made using only in-region games for comparison.

HOWEVER, last year, we learned from Committee Chair Dick Kaiser that the use of out-of-region games occurred much earlier than normal since the Committee's view was that use of only in-region numbers limited the universe of games to such a degree in football that it made true comparisons virtually impossible.  Thus, last year's Committee used Secondary Criteria much earlier than would have been expected.

Therefore, out-of-region considerations may be made early again this year, with some overlap in the 2008 and 2009 Committees.  The Advisory Committees that put out the weekly rankings seem to be suggesting some ignorance of the out-of-region games.  However, the ultimate deciders are the main Committee.  SJF's 3 total losses really do place the team behind the 8-ball, especially when the team would be considered against West, South and North Pool C candidates that have 1- or 2-overall losses this season.  SJF's only hope, I feel, is to hope for Utica to beat Alfred.  Otherwise, it's an ECAC season for SJF.

Simply put, why? Why should out of region games count for less? The difference between regions isn't THAT wide.

[JQV]

Simply put, why? Why should out of region games count for less? The difference between regions isn't THAT wide.

More importantly.  The NCAA doesn't seem to give a DLip about the regions they set up when it comes to the playoffs so why should those regions matter when choosing the pool of teams?

[sjfcards]

Simply put, why? Why should out of region games count for less? The difference between regions isn't THAT wide.

More importantly.  The NCAA doesn't seem to give a DLip about the regions they set up when it comes to the playoffs so why should those regions matter when choosing the pool of teams?

I guess that is my argument. Why would it matter if you lose to a team from NY or California, if the NCAA can bring in any team from any region to give them an easier road to the championship. It doesn't make much sense to me, if they only look at games against other East Region teams, then they should not allow other regions teams into the playoffs. Just have each region play off until you get to the final four.

However, I don't think looking at out of region teams is a bad thing. Quite the opposite. I think if just had a big pool of teams to choose from, then we would have a much more competitive playoffs, you would have more teams choosing to go out and schedule the top level teams, and much more entertaining and interesting inter-regional games. That is my oppinion anyway.

Thanks for the info everyone...I can always count on the the boards to come through when I have a question.

[theoriginalupstate]

no argument to be made...in region or out of region...they picked their schedule knowing that they were starting the season 0-1.  Knowing that they had to travel to Salisbury and knowing they still had to face IC, SC and Wick on the road....ironically they may go 3-0 in those games having lost the home contest to AU.

....also knowing they were only playing 9 games.   I certainly do not know a darn thing about 7-2  or 8-1 teams from the South and West, but it doesnt quite matter....you only win 6 games in a 32 team play-off system, and I dont care if you lost to MUC, UWW and Linfield...you made your bed, you lie in it.   This isnt D1 where you go .500 and you qualify for the Carfax Bowl....it's 6-3 and you qualify for a December trip to Maine to take on Husson in the Northeast ECAC championship game...and its good luck to AU.

Well said...

[Bombers798891]

Simply put, why? Why should out of region games count for less? The difference between regions isn't THAT wide.

More importantly.  The NCAA doesn't seem to give a DLip about the regions they set up when it comes to the playoffs so why should those regions matter when choosing the pool of teams?

I think this is what gets people so riled up about the whole MUC to the East thing. When it comes to selection, almost all we hear about is "Regional, regional, regional" and then when the time comes to actually play the games, that goes away. While I understand wanting to give the best teams the best seeds, it seems to run counter to the whole way the setup is run in the regular season

[sjfcards]

no argument to be made...in region or out of region...they picked their schedule knowing that they were starting the season 0-1.  Knowing that they had to travel to Salisbury and knowing they still had to face IC, SC and Wick on the road....ironically they may go 3-0 in those games having lost the home contest to AU.

....also knowing they were only playing 9 games.   I certainly do not know a darn thing about 7-2  or 8-1 teams from the South and West, but it doesnt quite matter....you only win 6 games in a 32 team play-off system, and I dont care if you lost to MUC, UWW and Linfield...you made your bed, you lie in it.   This isnt D1 where you go .500 and you qualify for the Carfax Bowl....it's 6-3 and you qualify for a December trip to Maine to take on Husson in the Northeast ECAC championship game...and its good luck to AU.

I guess I can understand Fisher's decision to play MUC now. If they lose to MUC, it is a loss to an out of region team. I still don't like it, but apparently it does not really hurt them.  I agree with you Ty that Fisher knew what they were getting into with their schedule this year, but I guess I can understand some of the decision making from the coaching staff.

[SJFF82]

no argument to be made...in region or out of region...they picked their schedule knowing that they were starting the season 0-1.  Knowing that they had to travel to Salisbury and knowing they still had to face IC, SC and Wick on the road....ironically they may go 3-0 in those games having lost the home contest to AU.

....also knowing they were only playing 9 games.   I certainly do not know a darn thing about 7-2  or 8-1 teams from the South and West, but it doesnt quite matter....you only win 6 games in a 32 team play-off system, and I dont care if you lost to MUC, UWW and Linfield...you made your bed, you lie in it.   This isnt D1 where you go .500 and you qualify for the Carfax Bowl....it's 6-3 and you qualify for a December trip to Maine to take on Husson in the Northeast ECAC championship game...and its good luck to AU.

I guess I can understand Fisher's decision to play MUC now. If they lose to MUC, it is a loss to an out of region team. I still don't like it, but apparently it does not really hurt them.  I agree with you Ty that Fisher knew what they were getting into with their schedule this year, but I guess I can understand some of the decision making from the coaching staff.

I understand the decision and agree with it.  The MUC thing went way beyond any one season.  It was more of a 'global' decision to play the best and get them on the schedule.  Keeping in mind that it was something they targeted several years ago and planned way in advance of knowing what the 2008-2009 seasons otherwise had instore for them.   For example, I am sure they had no idea that Norwich would be dropping out of the E8 at the time they planned for MUC.  That was an automatic win replaced by a loss to Salisbury.  Besides, getting blasted by MUC did not cause them to lose to AU 2 years in a row.  They beat AU 2 times and they are geniuses for their tough schedule and multiple trips to the NCAAs.