FB: Empire 8

[union89]

We'll see, but Hartwick was 1-4 in conference with their one win against winless in conference Utica.  Further, they're playing on the road, which has made a big difference even in the Boltus years. 

In conference PF 90 / PA 184, or 18pg / 36pg, Hartwick's only scored > 17 pts once in the last 4 games (33 vs. Utica), including 56-13 and 35-7 home losses to Springfield and SJF in two of the last three weeks, as well as a 42-17 loss to AU four weeks ago, so I wouldn't exactly suggest the SJF game was some kind of anomoly.   

They may've been good the two prior years, but the winning record is smoke and mirrors - same as RPI in the LL.  In fact, I'd make the same case if RPI had gotten an ECAC game and was playing SJF or Cortland (although I don't know how much Cortland has at this point).

This isn't about Union, but since it's brought up, they have plenty of offensive talent (check out Justin Gallo and Chris Coney if you haven't seen the names, Gallo torched Drake Woodard a couple of times) and do have a win against IC and have a comparable opponent to SJF in Salisbury with similar outcomes, but different margins.  Union also has wins over three teams w/winning records (Hobart, RPI and IC). 

I will still take it...no one is saying they are the best team on earth...but kudos to the coaching staff...some people thought we were going to revert backwards a bit...great job Wick, and good luck against the Dutchman...

Umm...You went from 7-3 with wins over AU and SJF to 5-4 with their best win being over Norwich...

I'd say that you did revert back to the pre-Boltus Hartwick, making an ECAC game over Utica and Brockport doesn't change that. 

5-4 is 5-4...not a great record...but we lost some of the best players we ever had.  I think people thought it would be a total implosion.  The Fisher game was...maybe AU (who was clearly the better team)...but we played IC tough, and the SC was close in the second half until it got away from us.  The ECAC's were a nice, and unexpected, surprise.  What happens if we beat Union then?

Certainly the Wick didn't implode, and a couple of breaks and they beat IC (or lose to Utica). I just have a hard time buying into teams who go into the ECAC's in a major slide. That happened to IC in 1999. They were 7-1, but lost to Cortland and Buffalo State, then went up to Union and had no desire to play, which is probably why Union beat them senseless.

ECAC games are more about the mental state of the team in the game than the talent level. I'm not talking about heart and toughness. Just simply "Does the team want to be there?"

In 2006, Cortland was #14 in the D3 poll and 9-1 with their only loss 14-7 to Rowan in OT. Somehow they were left out of the NCAA's. They then lost 26-7 at home to a 6-3 RPI team by committing seven turnovers. Or you could get screwed by the NCAA's and do what IC did in 1998. It's a coin flip.

So really, if Hartwick's guys see this as a way to prove they're a better team than they've shown, they can pull it off. But if they're dejected and just want the season to end, well, it might not be pretty.

Same goes for Union. They were 10 minutes away from the NCAA's. That will either be a motivator or a letdown.

I have no arguments with this...like I said, making the ECAC's was a nice surprise.  I don't think anyone from Wick was saying we were going to get a bid, or that we deserved a bid over Team A or Team B, because we were fortunate to get one (ie...Ithaca not accepting a bid).  I said it last year...for teams trying to build on their program up, its a great thing.  Ithaca is Ithaca...there is no need for them to accept a bid.  But it is a good thing for Wick...with budget being a factor, we are down to 9 games...so adding/getting a tenth game is great.  Plus...from a a recruitng standpoint, it is good to say that we played in the post season for three consecutive years.

Additionally, if we can find a way to beat the Dutchman, it will get us to 6-4...and it never hurts to throw a little egg in the face on the LL...

Yanks,
"It is good to say that we played in the post season for three consecutive years."

I'm honestly not trying to stir up an argument, but the ECAC game is not the 'real' postseason.  We beat this topic to death last year....If you live in the East, the ECAC game makes you a postseason participant?  I don't buy it, but if people truly buy that logic....more power to 'em.

Good luck to Alfred....I'll be pulling for the Saxon's all the way.

[JQV]

=Viper, how did IC fare against the Big Red in that scrimmage?

None of my sources were in attendance this year so I don't know.  Usually the scrimmage is pretty close for the first hour, then the size of Cornell's OLine an DLine wear out IC.

It isn't a game.  They play segments of controlled scrimmage.  IC on Offense for a set number of plays, same for Cornell, then Special Teams, then some specialty scenarios.

IC's better teams when I was in school had a lot of success against Cornell.  I doubt this year's team had the same sucess even though Cornell had a horrible year.

[Yanks 99]

We'll see, but Hartwick was 1-4 in conference with their one win against winless in conference Utica.  Further, they're playing on the road, which has made a big difference even in the Boltus years. 

In conference PF 90 / PA 184, or 18pg / 36pg, Hartwick's only scored > 17 pts once in the last 4 games (33 vs. Utica), including 56-13 and 35-7 home losses to Springfield and SJF in two of the last three weeks, as well as a 42-17 loss to AU four weeks ago, so I wouldn't exactly suggest the SJF game was some kind of anomoly.   

They may've been good the two prior years, but the winning record is smoke and mirrors - same as RPI in the LL.  In fact, I'd make the same case if RPI had gotten an ECAC game and was playing SJF or Cortland (although I don't know how much Cortland has at this point).

This isn't about Union, but since it's brought up, they have plenty of offensive talent (check out Justin Gallo and Chris Coney if you haven't seen the names, Gallo torched Drake Woodard a couple of times) and do have a win against IC and have a comparable opponent to SJF in Salisbury with similar outcomes, but different margins.  Union also has wins over three teams w/winning records (Hobart, RPI and IC). 

I will still take it...no one is saying they are the best team on earth...but kudos to the coaching staff...some people thought we were going to revert backwards a bit...great job Wick, and good luck against the Dutchman...

Umm...You went from 7-3 with wins over AU and SJF to 5-4 with their best win being over Norwich...

I'd say that you did revert back to the pre-Boltus Hartwick, making an ECAC game over Utica and Brockport doesn't change that. 

5-4 is 5-4...not a great record...but we lost some of the best players we ever had.  I think people thought it would be a total implosion.  The Fisher game was...maybe AU (who was clearly the better team)...but we played IC tough, and the SC was close in the second half until it got away from us.  The ECAC's were a nice, and unexpected, surprise.  What happens if we beat Union then?

Certainly the Wick didn't implode, and a couple of breaks and they beat IC (or lose to Utica). I just have a hard time buying into teams who go into the ECAC's in a major slide. That happened to IC in 1999. They were 7-1, but lost to Cortland and Buffalo State, then went up to Union and had no desire to play, which is probably why Union beat them senseless.

ECAC games are more about the mental state of the team in the game than the talent level. I'm not talking about heart and toughness. Just simply "Does the team want to be there?"

In 2006, Cortland was #14 in the D3 poll and 9-1 with their only loss 14-7 to Rowan in OT. Somehow they were left out of the NCAA's. They then lost 26-7 at home to a 6-3 RPI team by committing seven turnovers. Or you could get screwed by the NCAA's and do what IC did in 1998. It's a coin flip.

So really, if Hartwick's guys see this as a way to prove they're a better team than they've shown, they can pull it off. But if they're dejected and just want the season to end, well, it might not be pretty.

Same goes for Union. They were 10 minutes away from the NCAA's. That will either be a motivator or a letdown.

I have no arguments with this...like I said, making the ECAC's was a nice surprise.  I don't think anyone from Wick was saying we were going to get a bid, or that we deserved a bid over Team A or Team B, because we were fortunate to get one (ie...Ithaca not accepting a bid).  I said it last year...for teams trying to build on their program up, its a great thing.  Ithaca is Ithaca...there is no need for them to accept a bid.  But it is a good thing for Wick...with budget being a factor, we are down to 9 games...so adding/getting a tenth game is great.  Plus...from a a recruitng standpoint, it is good to say that we played in the post season for three consecutive years.

Additionally, if we can find a way to beat the Dutchman, it will get us to 6-4...and it never hurts to throw a little egg in the face on the LL...

Yanks,
"It is good to say that we played in the post season for three consecutive years."

I'm honestly not trying to stir up an argument, but the ECAC game is not the 'real' postseason.  We beat this topic to death last year....If you live in the East, the ECAC game makes you a postseason participant?  I don't buy it, but if people truly buy that logic....more power to 'em.

Good luck to Alfred....I'll be pulling for the Saxon's all the way.

I am in complete agreement with you.  All I said was it is a nice recruiting tool.  You think I am going crazy here because we are playing Union?  Check my posts last year...I am already on record saying that I would rather lose by 70 to Curry in the first round of the NCAA's then win a single ECAC game...simply because it means we are in the NCAA's.

[dlippiel]

Who cares about what teams did in the early 90's or before when comparing them to this year's team...hey did you know that Saint Lawrence made the National Semi-Finals in 1976, when they only took 8 teams in the tournament?  So because of this...SLU has more of a history then Hobart then, I assume...at least by your arguement.

Well than who gives a **** about what Wick did the past three seasons? This season they did not win their league or go to the NCAA's and Susquehanna won their league title. Dude, dlip roots for Wick a ton, but their overall body of work, in the past, and especially this year, is really not all that good. To suggest that their 07 team is comparable to this years Susquehanna is fair to an extent. Yet, if you consider that 07 team is the only team Wick ever had that could maybe have had a shot at winning the LL ever, than that is not saying  much. No one is saying that Susquehanna is a great team but they are definitely deserving of more respect than they are recieving.

Settle down dlip...when did I ever say Wick was great?  Where?  When?  I said we were comparable to Sus...that is it.  Who is disrespecting Sus.  So...comparing Wick to Sus is somehow disrespecting them?  That is ridiculous.

Dude, dlip settled hence deleting the post   We can agree to disagree but in dlip's opinion it is a disrespecting Susquehanna to say the year they win the LL are comparable to a Wick team that had a defense that resembled chicken cloth at best, lost to WNEC (dlip will never let that go he was so pissed) and gave up ****in 70 (49 in 4 Q's to Utica).

[dlippiel]

Man, dlip would have liked to seen Boltus come and play in Shocktown.

[Yanks 99]

Who cares about what teams did in the early 90's or before when comparing them to this year's team...hey did you know that Saint Lawrence made the National Semi-Finals in 1976, when they only took 8 teams in the tournament?  So because of this...SLU has more of a history then Hobart then, I assume...at least by your arguement.

Well than who gives a **** about what Wick did the past three seasons? This season they did not win their league or go to the NCAA's and Susquehanna won their league title. Dude, dlip roots for Wick a ton, but their overall body of work, in the past, and especially this year, is really not all that good. To suggest that their 07 team is comparable to this years Susquehanna is fair to an extent. Yet, if you consider that 07 team is the only team Wick ever had that could maybe have had a shot at winning the LL ever, than that is not saying  much. No one is saying that Susquehanna is a great team but they are definitely deserving of more respect than they are recieving.

Settle down dlip...when did I ever say Wick was great?  Where?  When?  I said we were comparable to Sus...that is it.  Who is disrespecting Sus.  So...comparing Wick to Sus is somehow disrespecting them?  That is ridiculous.

Dude, dlip settled hence deleting the post  We can agree to disagree but in dlip's opinion it is a disrespecting Susquehanna to say the year they win the LL are comparable to a Wick team that had a defense that resembled chicken cloth at best, lost to WNEC (dlip will never let that go he was so pissed) and gave up ****in 70 (49 in 4 Q's to Utica).

Hahaha...its all good...yes, our defense was awful...then by that account I find it disrespcting to 07 Wick to compare 09 Sus. when Sus. lost to a terrible MMA team, and had only an average offense compared to the greatest show on turf and an all-time D3 great!!!

Seriously...this is all in good fun, and I am completely not looking for any type of respect...you would have to be a dope to look for that on here.

[maxpower]

Everyone likes to point to Ithaca's snobbery when it comes to ECACs, but you forget that our season ends with Cortaca. Giving the team a game to go out on that isn't Cortaca.... there's just no way that won't be anticlimatic. Last game of the season should either a "real" playoff game, or a game in front of 10,000 people against your archrival. Why add a third option to those two?

[Yanks 99]

Everyone likes to point to Ithaca's snobbery when it comes to ECACs, but you forget that our season ends with Cortaca. Giving the team a game to go out on that isn't Cortaca.... there's just no way that won't be anticlimatic. Last game of the season should either a "real" playoff game, or a game in front of 10,000 people against your archrival. Why add a third option to those two?

I don't blame Ithaca...it's no surprise they turn down an ECAC bid.  Besides, they have been doing it on and off for years now.

[dlippiel]

Who cares about what teams did in the early 90's or before when comparing them to this year's team...hey did you know that Saint Lawrence made the National Semi-Finals in 1976, when they only took 8 teams in the tournament?  So because of this...SLU has more of a history then Hobart then, I assume...at least by your arguement.

Well than who gives a **** about what Wick did the past three seasons? This season they did not win their league or go to the NCAA's and Susquehanna won their league title. Dude, dlip roots for Wick a ton, but their overall body of work, in the past, and especially this year, is really not all that good. To suggest that their 07 team is comparable to this years Susquehanna is fair to an extent. Yet, if you consider that 07 team is the only team Wick ever had that could maybe have had a shot at winning the LL ever, than that is not saying  much. No one is saying that Susquehanna is a great team but they are definitely deserving of more respect than they are recieving.

Settle down dlip...when did I ever say Wick was great?  Where?  When?  I said we were comparable to Sus...that is it.  Who is disrespecting Sus.  So...comparing Wick to Sus is somehow disrespecting them?  That is ridiculous.

Dude, dlip settled hence deleting the post  We can agree to disagree but in dlip's opinion it is a disrespecting Susquehanna to say the year they win the LL are comparable to a Wick team that had a defense that resembled chicken cloth at best, lost to WNEC (dlip will never let that go he was so pissed) and gave up ****in 70 (49 in 4 Q's to Utica).

Hahaha...its all good...yes, our defense was awful...then by that account I find it disrespcting to 07 Wick to compare 09 Sus. when Sus. lost to a terrible MMA team, and had only an average offense compared to the greatest show on turf and an all-time D3 great!!!

Seriously...this is all in good fun, and I am completely not looking for any type of respect...you would have to be a dope to look for that on here.

Yanks +k for throwing in the MMA loss, dlip was waiting. Heading to Shocktown for the game on Sat?

[Bombers798891]

Everyone likes to point to Ithaca's snobbery when it comes to ECACs, but you forget that our season ends with Cortaca. Giving the team a game to go out on that isn't Cortaca.... there's just no way that won't be anticlimatic. Last game of the season should either a "real" playoff game, or a game in front of 10,000 people against your archrival. Why add a third option to those two?

I think Ithaca's of the mind that unless you're trying to send a message to someone, the ECAC's aren't worth it. The debacle in '99 at Union settled that, but both the '98 and '04 teams felt they could have made the NCAA's (and the '98 team was right)

Besides, it's a terrible time to play. It's the weekend right after Thanksgiving break starts and no-one's even on campus to watch. The 2004 Mass-Darmouth shelacking was devoid of people. And often times, the weather is cruddy.

Honestly, there's not much to gain

[maxpower]

It has also been pointed out to me that an ECAC game is a couple-thousand-dollar commitment.... another reason a school might not think it's worth it.

The 2004 Mass-Darmouth shelacking was devoid of people.

I actually worked at that game. I had never heard of UMass-Dartmouth, and it took me until I got to the press box to realize we weren't for some reason hosting a scrimmage between UMass and Dartmouth.

Almost as bad as the time I realized aloud: "Ooohh, it's a combination of 'Cortland' and 'Ithaca.'"

Just a couple of the many times my boss swore never to hire another music major...

[union89]

Everyone likes to point to Ithaca's snobbery when it comes to ECACs, but you forget that our season ends with Cortaca. Giving the team a game to go out on that isn't Cortaca.... there's just no way that won't be anticlimatic. Last game of the season should either a "real" playoff game, or a game in front of 10,000 people against your archrival. Why add a third option to those two?

I think Ithaca's of the mind that unless you're trying to send a message to someone, the ECAC's aren't worth it. The debacle in '99 at Union settled that, but both the '98 and '04 teams felt they could have made the NCAA's (and the '98 team was right)

Besides, it's a terrible time to play. It's the weekend right after Thanksgiving break starts and no-one's even on campus to watch. The 2004 Mass-Darmouth shelacking was devoid of people. And often times, the weather is cruddy.

Honestly, there's not much to gain

Agreed.

[AUPepBand]

It has also been pointed out to me that an ECAC game is a couple-thousand-dollar commitment.... another reason a school might not think it's worth it.

The 2004 Mass-Darmouth shelacking was devoid of people.

I actually worked at that game. I had never heard of UMass-Dartmouth, and it took me until I got to the press box to realize we weren't for some reason hosting a scrimmage between UMass and Dartmouth.

Almost as bad as the time I realized aloud: "Ooohh, it's a combination of 'Cortland' and 'Ithaca.'"

Just a couple of the many times my boss swore never to hire another music major...

+K    Sure beats Ithland, no?   

[dlippiel]

Everyone likes to point to Ithaca's snobbery when it comes to ECACs, but you forget that our season ends with Cortaca. Giving the team a game to go out on that isn't Cortaca.... there's just no way that won't be anticlimatic. Last game of the season should either a "real" playoff game, or a game in front of 10,000 people against your archrival. Why add a third option to those two?

I think Ithaca's of the mind that unless you're trying to send a message to someone, the ECAC's aren't worth it. The debacle in '99 at Union settled that, but both the '98 and '04 teams felt they could have made the NCAA's (and the '98 team was right)

Besides, it's a terrible time to play. It's the weekend right after Thanksgiving break starts and no-one's even on campus to watch. The 2004 Mass-Darmouth shelacking was devoid of people. And often times, the weather is cruddy.

Honestly, there's not much to gain

You know it is an interesting perspective and dlip sees both sides of it. To dlip, it really should be based on the players and how they feel whether or not they participate in an ECAC game. **** a team shouldn't participate if the players feel let down by it. dlip really does not think that felling "let down" by not making the NCAA's is a bad thing. Holding ones self to high expectations is really how great things begin to be accomplished. Honestly, dlip is happy Union is playing Saturday, only if the players believe in playing and are hungry. yet to also be fair and honest dlip still feels, like he said before the start of 09, anyting less than a trip to the NCAA's for Union is disappointing and underachieving. So to ****ing conclude, dlip is happy about the ECAC game but disappointed that this team did not reach the tourney. If the Union players choose to not participate dlip would support them wholeheartedly just as he will support them for choosing to participate. To dlip this is not a playoof game at all. It is an opportunity for this group of commited teammates to come together for one more game and go out with a W for the seniors.

[dlippiel]

and go out with a W for the seniors.

...and try to go out with a W for the seniors.