FB: Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

Looks like the Empire 8 is getting some love in the pre-seaason Lindy's poll. Fisher is 14, and IC is 16.

13. Central
14. St. John Fisher
15. North Central
16. Ithaca
17. Willamette (Ore.)

I am a little surprised AU is not in the mix but you can never put too much stock in pre-season polls. It is incomplete information and does not really mean much. I still love to see E8 schools on the big board when they come out.

This may get me karma sniped, but whatever. Ithaca and Fisher at 16 and 14? Man, that seems high for a couple of 7-3 schools from a conference that hasn't exactly been lighting things on fire in the postseason recently.

I'd be stunned beyond belief if Ithaca's anywhere near that ranking by the end considering they have road games against Alfred, Fisher and Cortland (sorta).

[sjfcards]

I can't say I disagree bombers. I think both schools showed weaknesses last year and have some major question marks heading into this year. Fisher returns a lot from last year, but really, that team was not all that above average. IC had a lot of problems last year as well.

Everything I heard out of Pittsford at the end of last year, and so far this summer points to Fisher being pretty strong this year, but I have limited information to say the least.

I thought AU would get a nod even with their secondary questions, simply because they won the league last year (and were obviously the best team in my oppinion), and that will typically get you a nod. Not to mention the QB that they will have coming back is pretty good.

[Bombers798891]

I can't say I disagree bombers. I think both schools showed weaknesses last year and have some major question marks heading into this year. Fisher returns a lot from last year, but really, that team was not all that above average. IC had a lot of problems last year as well.

Everything I heard out of Pittsford at the end of last year, and so far this summer points to Fisher being pretty strong this year, but I have limited information to say the least.

I thought AU would get a nod even with their secondary questions, simply because they won the league last year (and were obviously the best team in my oppinion), and that will typically get you a nod. Not to mention the QB that they will have coming back is pretty good.

Alfred's QB? Who's he?

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm all for conference pride and whatnot, but IC's got questions along both lines, are bringing in a new QB, and have a guy coming off an injury at RB.

I can't speak to the reasoning behind Fisher's ranking but I suspect IC is getting by a little bit on reputation at this point. They haven't won a playoff game since 2003. I'd almost prefer them not to be ranked. Maybe they'd play with a little chip on their shoulder.

I'm sure they'll be pretty good next year. Ithaca's always pretty good. But, IMO, until proven otherwise, I don't think they can beat Fisher, and they never play well in Alfred--even in wins usually. So they're looking at at least two losses right there.

It is nice to see Alfred finally scheduled someone decent OOC. As much as I had respect for the Saxons, their recent OOC slate's been mostly a joke. Granted, few teams in the conference are playing a murder's row, but still.

[dlippiel]

I can't say I disagree bombers. I think both schools showed weaknesses last year and have some major question marks heading into this year. Fisher returns a lot from last year, but really, that team was not all that above average. IC had a lot of problems last year as well.

Everything I heard out of Pittsford at the end of last year, and so far this summer points to Fisher being pretty strong this year, but I have limited information to say the least.

I thought AU would get a nod even with their secondary questions, simply because they won the league last year (and were obviously the best team in my oppinion), and that will typically get you a nod. Not to mention the QB that they will have coming back is pretty good.

Alfred's QB? Who's he?

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm all for conference pride and whatnot, but IC's got questions along both lines, are bringing in a new QB, and have a guy coming off an injury at RB.

I can't speak to the reasoning behind Fisher's ranking but I suspect IC is getting by a little bit on reputation at this point. They haven't won a playoff game since 2003. I'd almost prefer them not to be ranked. Maybe they'd play with a little chip on their shoulder.

I'm sure they'll be pretty good next year. Ithaca's always pretty good. But, IMO, until proven otherwise, I don't think they can beat Fisher, and they never play well in Alfred--even in wins usually. So they're looking at at least two losses right there.

It is nice to see Alfred finally scheduled someone decent OOC. As much as I had respect for the Saxons, their recent OOC slate's been mostly a joke. Granted, few teams in the conference are playing a murder's row, but still.

Solid post 

dlip feels both should really not be in the preseason poll at this point. IC was clearly overrated in 09 and the East as a whole just wasn't up to par with the top dogs in the nation. One thing Pat always seems to say that used to really piss dlip off is that teams in the East need to get better, bottom line. You know what, dlip is really starting to agree. He feels in 2010 the East needs to earn any and all respect it seeks on a national level.

dlip hopes IC and SJF are worthy of these preseason rankings but just does not think they are as of now.

[Bombers798891]

I can't say I disagree bombers. I think both schools showed weaknesses last year and have some major question marks heading into this year. Fisher returns a lot from last year, but really, that team was not all that above average. IC had a lot of problems last year as well.

Everything I heard out of Pittsford at the end of last year, and so far this summer points to Fisher being pretty strong this year, but I have limited information to say the least.

I thought AU would get a nod even with their secondary questions, simply because they won the league last year (and were obviously the best team in my oppinion), and that will typically get you a nod. Not to mention the QB that they will have coming back is pretty good.

Alfred's QB? Who's he?

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm all for conference pride and whatnot, but IC's got questions along both lines, are bringing in a new QB, and have a guy coming off an injury at RB.

I can't speak to the reasoning behind Fisher's ranking but I suspect IC is getting by a little bit on reputation at this point. They haven't won a playoff game since 2003. I'd almost prefer them not to be ranked. Maybe they'd play with a little chip on their shoulder.

I'm sure they'll be pretty good next year. Ithaca's always pretty good. But, IMO, until proven otherwise, I don't think they can beat Fisher, and they never play well in Alfred--even in wins usually. So they're looking at at least two losses right there.

It is nice to see Alfred finally scheduled someone decent OOC. As much as I had respect for the Saxons, their recent OOC slate's been mostly a joke. Granted, few teams in the conference are playing a murder's row, but still.

Solid post 

dlip feels both should really not be in the preseason poll at this point. IC was clearly overrated in 09 and the East as a whole just wasn't up to par with the top dogs in the nation. One thing Pat always seems to say that used to really piss dlip off is that teams in the East need to get better, bottom line. You know what, dlip is really starting to agree. He feels in 2010 the East needs to earn any and all respect it seeks on a national level.

dlip hopes IC and SJF are worthy of these preseason rankings but just does not think they are as of now.

You've got to make hay when the sun shines. Yeah, the East teams are not going to beat MUC, but they've got no-one to blame for MUC being moved.

In '07, Fisher starts at #5, Springfield is at #9. Springfield remembers they can't be good two years in a row and goes 4-6. Fisher winds up losing the conference to the Wick, who pretty much everyone knows is doing it with smoke and mirrors, heart and determination and will and in comes MUC.

In '08, Cortland was #7 and 9-0 heading into Cortaca, against  IC who was 8-1 and #17 . If Cortland wins that game, they're going to be at #5, since both #3 and #6 lost that week. Another good chance to keep MUC out of the East

But instead, Cortland turns it over 17 times, loses to IC's backups and blows it. Ithaca's already had their annual debacle at Fisher so forget them moving up to #1. MUC moves in, Ithaca gets the #2 and lays a freaking egg against Curry. So now, it just looks like no-one in the East wants to actually play well.

I mean, look, I know it's common to say the E8 teams "beat up on each other" but the bottom line is, the best teams in the East seem to lose to teams they're better than. If Fisher runs the table in 2007, they're probably looked at as the #1 seed.

IC was better than Fisher in 2008. If they can win that game, the Cortaca game features two 9-0 teams who are both Top 10 (Ithaca was ranked ahead of Cortland going into the SJF game so if a 9-0 Cortland can get to #7 IC would be in the vicintity) and whoever wins that game probably snares the #1 seed. Instead, Ithaca loses by 75 to Fisher, which looks even worse when Fisher's season goes in the toilet.

We complain about the system which moves MUC here, but basically, if you post here, your team has had a hand in putting MUC in the East.

What can be done in 2010? I vote for collusion. Would it have killed Hartwick to just let Fisher run the table in 2007? Could the Cardinals have swallowed some pride and let Ithaca have it in 2008? If not, maybe the Bombers could have extended some diplomacy to our rivals from Cortland? There's no unity in this region. Makes me sick frankly.

(Obviously, that last paragraph was meant in jest)

[AlfredSaxon8]

I can't say I disagree bombers. I think both schools showed weaknesses last year and have some major question marks heading into this year. Fisher returns a lot from last year, but really, that team was not all that above average. IC had a lot of problems last year as well.

Everything I heard out of Pittsford at the end of last year, and so far this summer points to Fisher being pretty strong this year, but I have limited information to say the least.

I thought AU would get a nod even with their secondary questions, simply because they won the league last year (and were obviously the best team in my oppinion), and that will typically get you a nod. Not to mention the QB that they will have coming back is pretty good.

Alfred's QB? Who's he?

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm all for conference pride and whatnot, but IC's got questions along both lines, are bringing in a new QB, and have a guy coming off an injury at RB.

I can't speak to the reasoning behind Fisher's ranking but I suspect IC is getting by a little bit on reputation at this point. They haven't won a playoff game since 2003. I'd almost prefer them not to be ranked. Maybe they'd play with a little chip on their shoulder.

I'm sure they'll be pretty good next year. Ithaca's always pretty good. But, IMO, until proven otherwise, I don't think they can beat Fisher, and they never play well in Alfred--even in wins usually. So they're looking at at least two losses right there.

It is nice to see Alfred finally scheduled someone decent OOC. As much as I had respect for the Saxons, their recent OOC slate's been mostly a joke. Granted, few teams in the conference are playing a murder's row, but still.

Solid post 

dlip feels both should really not be in the preseason poll at this point. IC was clearly overrated in 09 and the East as a whole just wasn't up to par with the top dogs in the nation. One thing Pat always seems to say that used to really piss dlip off is that teams in the East need to get better, bottom line. You know what, dlip is really starting to agree. He feels in 2010 the East needs to earn any and all respect it seeks on a national level.

dlip hopes IC and SJF are worthy of these preseason rankings but just does not think they are as of now.

I dont think the weak out of conference scheduling can fall solely on the shoulders of Alfred in the E8.  And even at that, Alfred was playing worthy opponents not only in season but during scrimmages.  The problem is that you schedule opponents from the year, which could very well turn a game that was a pre-season challenge into a blowout.  For example, when Alfred scheduled Thiel three years ago, they were ranked 15th in the nation.  When we played them in the season opener, they had already lost their first game of the season.  And teams that have potential one year to be a challenge can disappont the next year.  Another example is Husson. They were a middle of the road team when we first traveled to Maine in 06 posting an above .500 record.  The game wasn't a shootout by a long shot, but they were a skilled team.  Then, the following year, we beat Husson 63-20 on our home turf after the game started off 14-7 in their favor... The point is, that scheduling out of conference games can be very deceiving.  Ithaca should know that first hand when my Freshman year they were beat by a Lycoming team that ended the year like 2-8? (Someone help me out- I'm not sure what their actual record was that year but I dont think it was very good) 

One of the major problems is that you have two big time conferences, the LL and the E8, in the Northeast and a few smaller conferences that have more definitive powerhouses and teams that are year to year weak.  It can be a challenge to find a ton of tough out of conference opponents that will generate a buzz unless you want to travel 8 hours on a bus the day before the big game. And quite frankly, that can put a team at a huge disadvantage. And especially in Alfred's case, who did not schedule SUNY schools unless it was a scrimmage (even though I understand that was their own doing, which will change with the addition of Buff State into the E8).  But my main point being, when you have so many quality football teams in the Northeast that already have committments to the E8 and the LL then it can be hard to find worthy opponents elsewhere.  And sometimes, worthy opponents in the preseason or worthy opponents from the previous year, don't always turn out to be that when the two teams take to the field. 

Anyways, I'm back, after being on hiatus.  I work on a computer all day so I won't be a stranger to the boards.  Hope all is well with everyone!  Go saxons!

[Jonny Utah]

I'd love to see Cornell or Colgate play a upstate d3 team.  If d1 teams can play 1-AA teams in football (Iowa/Maine, Michigan/Umass, Syracuse/Northeastern) why can't we see some d-1aa/d3 matchups?

[sjfcards]

I can't say I disagree bombers. I think both schools showed weaknesses last year and have some major question marks heading into this year. Fisher returns a lot from last year, but really, that team was not all that above average. IC had a lot of problems last year as well.

Everything I heard out of Pittsford at the end of last year, and so far this summer points to Fisher being pretty strong this year, but I have limited information to say the least.

I thought AU would get a nod even with their secondary questions, simply because they won the league last year (and were obviously the best team in my oppinion), and that will typically get you a nod. Not to mention the QB that they will have coming back is pretty good.

Alfred's QB? Who's he?

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm all for conference pride and whatnot, but IC's got questions along both lines, are bringing in a new QB, and have a guy coming off an injury at RB.

I can't speak to the reasoning behind Fisher's ranking but I suspect IC is getting by a little bit on reputation at this point. They haven't won a playoff game since 2003. I'd almost prefer them not to be ranked. Maybe they'd play with a little chip on their shoulder.

I'm sure they'll be pretty good next year. Ithaca's always pretty good. But, IMO, until proven otherwise, I don't think they can beat Fisher, and they never play well in Alfred--even in wins usually. So they're looking at at least two losses right there.

It is nice to see Alfred finally scheduled someone decent OOC. As much as I had respect for the Saxons, their recent OOC slate's been mostly a joke. Granted, few teams in the conference are playing a murder's row, but still.

Solid post 

dlip feels both should really not be in the preseason poll at this point. IC was clearly overrated in 09 and the East as a whole just wasn't up to par with the top dogs in the nation. One thing Pat always seems to say that used to really piss dlip off is that teams in the East need to get better, bottom line. You know what, dlip is really starting to agree. He feels in 2010 the East needs to earn any and all respect it seeks on a national level.

dlip hopes IC and SJF are worthy of these preseason rankings but just does not think they are as of now.

You've got to make hay when the sun shines. Yeah, the East teams are not going to beat MUC, but they've got no-one to blame for MUC being moved.

In '07, Fisher starts at #5, Springfield is at #9. Springfield remembers they can't be good two years in a row and goes 4-6. Fisher winds up losing the conference to the Wick, who pretty much everyone knows is doing it with smoke and mirrors, heart and determination and will and in comes MUC.

In '08, Cortland was #7 and 9-0 heading into Cortaca, against  IC who was 8-1 and #17 . If Cortland wins that game, they're going to be at #5, since both #3 and #6 lost that week. Another good chance to keep MUC out of the East

But instead, Cortland turns it over 17 times, loses to IC's backups and blows it. Ithaca's already had their annual debacle at Fisher so forget them moving up to #1. MUC moves in, Ithaca gets the #2 and lays a freaking egg against Curry. So now, it just looks like no-one in the East wants to actually play well.

I mean, look, I know it's common to say the E8 teams "beat up on each other" but the bottom line is, the best teams in the East seem to lose to teams they're better than. If Fisher runs the table in 2007, they're probably looked at as the #1 seed.

IC was better than Fisher in 2008. If they can win that game, the Cortaca game features two 9-0 teams who are both Top 10 (Ithaca was ranked ahead of Cortland going into the SJF game so if a 9-0 Cortland can get to #7 IC would be in the vicintity) and whoever wins that game probably snares the #1 seed. Instead, Ithaca loses by 75 to Fisher, which looks even worse when Fisher's season goes in the toilet.

We complain about the system which moves MUC here, but basically, if you post here, your team has had a hand in putting MUC in the East.

What can be done in 2010? I vote for collusion. Would it have killed Hartwick to just let Fisher run the table in 2007? Could the Cardinals have swallowed some pride and let Ithaca have it in 2008? If not, maybe the Bombers could have extended some diplomacy to our rivals from Cortland? There's no unity in this region. Makes me sick frankly.

(Obviously, that last paragraph was meant in jest)

Your point about MUC being moved into the East is well taken. Obvioulsy the East has not had that one team that was good enough to keep MUC out of the East, and if they are the best team in the country (which they almost always are) then they should have the easiest road to the Finals.

If the East could produce a team that would establish itself as a legit national power, then we would not have to keep having this conversation. Teams have had some tough losses that have brought outsiders in (Fisher's loss to Hartwick, AU's loss to IC, Ithaca's loss to Fisher, etc.). But one loss should not be the criteria for MUC moving to the East. If MUC lost one game, would they move UWW to that region?

[Pat Coleman]

Remember that everyone else outside of, say, the NATHC or MIAA champ, would have to have one loss too, in order to truly emulate your scenario. It's not just Mount Union being 9-1, but the OAC champ, CCIW champ, NCAC champ and probably the HCAC champ, too, that would have to stumble.

[Tags]

Who is MUC?

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

UMU.

[AUPepBand]

Nice to have some posts to read on the E8 board for a change. Here's Lindy's and Sporting News' pre-season Top 25 to perhaps continue the discussion, with East Region teams in bold:

Lindy's
1. Wisc-Whitewater
2. Mount Union
3. Wesley
4. Linfield
5. Trine
6. Bethel (Minn.)
7. Delaware Valley
8. St. John's (Minn.)
9. Wittenberg
10. Mary Hardin-Baylor
11. Ohio Northern
12. Johns Hopkins
13. Central
14. St. John Fisher
15. North Central
16. Ithaca
17. Willamette (Ore.)
18. Thomas More
19. Monmouth (Ill.)
20. Mississippi College
21. W&J
22. Wartburg
23. Bridgewater
24. Otterbein
25. Augustana

The Sporting News
1. Wisc-Whitewater
2. Mount Union
3. Linfield
4. St. John's (Minn.)
5. Wesley
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor
7. Delaware Valley
8. Wittenberg
9. Central
10. St. Thomas
11. Ohio Northern
12. Thomas More
13. W&J
14. North Central
15. Johns Hopkins
16. Monmouth (Ill.)
17. Hardin-Simmons
18. Coe
19. Trinity (Texas)
20. Trine
21. Wisc-Stout
22. Hampden-Sydney
23. Wabash
24. Case Western Reserve
25. Franklin & Marshall

Pep would say Delaware Valley may have the most ambitious OOC schedule in the East Region, kicking off with Muhlenberg, W&J and Wesley. If the Aggies were to open their 2010 campaign at 3-0, Pep would say they'd likely zip through the MAC and be a legitimate East Region #1 seed. But that 27-3 playoff loss to Albright stirs up some doubts.

[AUPepBand]

I dont think the weak out of conference scheduling can fall solely on the shoulders of Alfred in the E8.  And even at that, Alfred was playing worthy opponents not only in season but during scrimmages.  The problem is that you schedule opponents from the year, which could very well turn a game that was a pre-season challenge into a blowout.  For example, when Alfred scheduled Thiel three years ago, they were ranked 15th in the nation.  When we played them in the season opener, they had already lost their first game of the season.  And teams that have potential one year to be a challenge can disappont the next year.  Another example is Husson. They were a middle of the road team when we first traveled to Maine in 06 posting an above .500 record.  The game wasn't a shootout by a long shot, but they were a skilled team.  Then, the following year, we beat Husson 63-20 on our home turf after the game started off 14-7 in their favor... The point is, that scheduling out of conference games can be very deceiving.  Ithaca should know that first hand when my Freshman year they were beat by a Lycoming team that ended the year like 2-8? (Someone help me out- I'm not sure what their actual record was that year but I dont think it was very good) 
One of the major problems is that you have two big time conferences, the LL and the E8, in the Northeast and a few smaller conferences that have more definitive powerhouses and teams that are year to year weak.  It can be a challenge to find a ton of tough out of conference opponents that will generate a buzz unless you want to travel 8 hours on a bus the day before the big game. And quite frankly, that can put a team at a huge disadvantage. And especially in Alfred's case, who did not schedule SUNY schools unless it was a scrimmage (even though I understand that was their own doing, which will change with the addition of Buff State into the E8).  But my main point being, when you have so many quality football teams in the Northeast that already have committments to the E8 and the LL then it can be hard to find worthy opponents elsewhere.  And sometimes, worthy opponents in the preseason or worthy opponents from the previous year, don't always turn out to be that when the two teams take to the field. 

Anyways, I'm back, after being on hiatus.  I work on a computer all day so I won't be a stranger to the boards.  Hope all is well with everyone!  Go saxons!

Great to see you back on the boards Saxon8! You asked for help....perhaps a library assistant can help? The Lycoming Warriors were a miserable 1-4 when they upset the Ithaca Bombers 33-30 in OT in 2005 but that game was a turning point in their season as they did not lose another game and finished 6-4.

[dlippiel]

But that 27-3 playoff loss to Albright stirs up some doubts.

You can say that again Pep. dlip was quite perplexed by that lopsided loss to Albright. dlip is just hoping some how, some way, the East produces a legitimate #1 seed for this years playoffs. At this point dlip would take anyone except RPI to fill that role. Just don't see it happening though.

[bomber3]

Looks like the Empire 8 is getting some love in the pre-seaason Lindy's poll. Fisher is 14, and IC is 16.

13. Central
14. St. John Fisher
15. North Central
16. Ithaca
17. Willamette (Ore.)

I am a little surprised AU is not in the mix but you can never put too much stock in pre-season polls. It is incomplete information and does not really mean much. I still love to see E8 schools on the big board when they come out.

This may get me karma sniped, but whatever. Ithaca and Fisher at 16 and 14? Man, that seems high for a couple of 7-3 schools from a conference that hasn't exactly been lighting things on fire in the postseason recently.

I'd be stunned beyond belief if Ithaca's anywhere near that ranking by the end considering they have road games against Alfred, Fisher and Cortland (sorta).

There are three things in life you can bet on.  Death, taxes, and Bombers798891 bashing IC's football/basketball programs...