FB: Empire 8

[AlfredSaxon8]

I dont think the weak out of conference scheduling can fall solely on the shoulders of Alfred in the E8.  And even at that, Alfred was playing worthy opponents not only in season but during scrimmages.  The problem is that you schedule opponents from the year, which could very well turn a game that was a pre-season challenge into a blowout.  For example, when Alfred scheduled Thiel three years ago, they were ranked 15th in the nation.  When we played them in the season opener, they had already lost their first game of the season.  And teams that have potential one year to be a challenge can disappont the next year.  Another example is Husson. They were a middle of the road team when we first traveled to Maine in 06 posting an above .500 record.  The game wasn't a shootout by a long shot, but they were a skilled team.  Then, the following year, we beat Husson 63-20 on our home turf after the game started off 14-7 in their favor... The point is, that scheduling out of conference games can be very deceiving.  Ithaca should know that first hand when my Freshman year they were beat by a Lycoming team that ended the year like 2-8? (Someone help me out- I'm not sure what their actual record was that year but I dont think it was very good) 
One of the major problems is that you have two big time conferences, the LL and the E8, in the Northeast and a few smaller conferences that have more definitive powerhouses and teams that are year to year weak.  It can be a challenge to find a ton of tough out of conference opponents that will generate a buzz unless you want to travel 8 hours on a bus the day before the big game. And quite frankly, that can put a team at a huge disadvantage. And especially in Alfred's case, who did not schedule SUNY schools unless it was a scrimmage (even though I understand that was their own doing, which will change with the addition of Buff State into the E8).  But my main point being, when you have so many quality football teams in the Northeast that already have committments to the E8 and the LL then it can be hard to find worthy opponents elsewhere.  And sometimes, worthy opponents in the preseason or worthy opponents from the previous year, don't always turn out to be that when the two teams take to the field. 

Anyways, I'm back, after being on hiatus.  I work on a computer all day so I won't be a stranger to the boards.  Hope all is well with everyone!  Go saxons!

Great to see you back on the boards Saxon8! You asked for help....perhaps a library assistant can help? The Lycoming Warriors were a miserable 1-4 when they upset the Ithaca Bombers 33-30 in OT in 2005 but that game was a turning point in their season as they did not lose another game and finished 6-4.

Thanks for the help, Pep! Hope all is well at AU. 

How's the recruits look? Any insider info?

On a side note, how did Boltus' first season end up in Canada? Did he get an game reps?

A good showing for WNY Section 6 in the NFL this year! My high school running back didn't get the nod in the draft but was invited to Tampa Bay for their rookie minicamp. Good to see Starks get drafted after his surgery-  he's a great kid, very high character.  He came up to me after I broke my leg in high school and shook my hand, very nice kid and one of the best athletes I've ever played against. (Ironically, Rob Grownkowski was the player that broke my leg when he was playing for Williamsville North- he was 15 years old and without a doubt the best talent in WNY).  But Worthington was drafted, and Gronkowski's older brother signed with the Lions as did Naaman Roosevelt did with the Bills.  How did Section 5 work out? They usually have a couple that make a splash every year... Wasn't there some freak running back that signed with a big 1A school a couple years ago?

[AUPepBand]

Saxon8: Pep has heard some good things on the status of recruiting. Nothing specific, mind you, but definitely an overall increased interest in Alfred. As always, Murray has some kids coming in that he's excited about...remains to be seen how the new recruits respond at a higher level of play.

Overall, it appears that Alfred, barring a substantial summer meltdown, will make or perhaps even exceed its freshman class quota.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

On a side note, how did Boltus' first season end up in Canada? Did he get an game reps?

According to the Hamilton Tiger Cats Website:
2009: Spent the entire season on the injured list

This was recently posted on their website:
Getting to Know Jason Boltus

[dlippiel]

Saxon8: Pep has heard some good things on the status of recruiting. Nothing specific, mind you, but definitely an overall increased interest in Alfred. As always, Murray has some kids coming in that he's excited about...remains to be seen how the new recruits respond at a higher level of play.

Overall, it appears that Alfred, barring a substantial summer meltdown, will make or perhaps even exceed its freshman class quota.

Yesterday on TW cable #3 they showed the innagural Upstate vs Downstate football game between some of the best HS football players NY has to offer. dlip heard that at least a couple of players in this game are heading to Alfred. Amoung other D3 schools mentioned were Cortland and Buffalo St. It did seem as if there was some decent talent on the field and the game was enjoybale to watch. dlip missed specific names though, he was also playing with his daughter

[AUPepBand]

Saxon8: Pep has heard some good things on the status of recruiting. Nothing specific, mind you, but definitely an overall increased interest in Alfred. As always, Murray has some kids coming in that he's excited about...remains to be seen how the new recruits respond at a higher level of play.

Overall, it appears that Alfred, barring a substantial summer meltdown, will make or perhaps even exceed its freshman class quota.

Yesterday on TW cable #3 they showed the innagural Upstate vs Downstate football game between some of the best HS football players NY has to offer. dlip heard that at least a couple of players in this game are heading to Alfred. Amoung other D3 schools mentioned were Cortland and Buffalo St. It did seem as if there was some decent talent on the field and the game was enjoybale to watch. dlip missed specific names though, he was also playing with his daughter

Here are the rosters from the game, won by Downstate 36-7. The roster includes the colleges where the All-Stars are enrolling:

UPSTATE ROSTER

No. - Player -- Pos. -- Ht. -- Wt. -- High School -- College
2 - Bernard Williams - WR - 5-8 - 165 - Canisius -- Wofford
3 - Josh Mims - CB - 6-1 - 185 - Nottingham -- Buffalo State
4 - Tre Williams - DB - 6-4 - 200 - Syracuse CBA -- New Hampshire
5 - Ismail Brooks - RB - 6-1 - 195 - Auburn -- Buffalo State
6 - Jaiqwan Jones - DB - 5-9 - 180 - Cicero-North Syracuse -- Lackawanna College
7 - Will Fiacchi - QB - 6-3 - 205 - Marcellus -- Albany
8 - Anthony Bianchi - DB - 5-11 - 195 - Aquinas -- Robert Morris
9 - Adam Redden - WR - 6-2 - 190 - St. Francis -- Buffalo
10 - Chris Rogers - K - 5-10 - 160 - Cazenovia -- Sacred Heart
11 - Jawan Simmons - DB - 6-3 - 205 - Nottingham -- N.C. Tech
12 - Desmond Howard - DE - 6-3 - 225 - St. Francis -- Buffalo
14 - Jordan Charbonneau - WR - 6-2 - 185 - Corinth -- Graceland
15 - Chad McCloskey - QB - 6-3 - 200 - Gloversville -- Gunnery Prep
17 - Adam Gruschow - DB - 5-11 - 195 - Hilton -- Assumption
19 - Omar Osbourne - DB - 6-1 - 190 - Bishop Ludden -- Albany
20 - David Fluellen - RB - 6-0 - 195 - Lockport -- Toledo
21 - Tyler Paluba - DB - 5-11 - 180 - Burnt Hills-Ballston Lake -- West New England
22 - Austin Dwyer - RB - 5-8 - 170 - Hornell -- Alfred
24 - Cole King - WR - 6-1 - 185 - Henninger -- Albany
25 - Clay Harris - DB - 5-9 - 185 - Rush-Henrietta -- Albany
28 - Malik Burks - RB - 5-10 - 190 - Baldwinsville -- Milford Academy
30 - Elijah Thomas - FB - 5-10 - 215 - Gates-Chili -- Yale
31 - Patrick Gibbons - LB - 6-2 - 245 - Carthage -- Milford Academy
32 - Dustin Moss - P - 5-8 - 180 - East Syracuse-Minoa -- Niagara Co. CC
33 - Travon Burke - LB - 6-1 - 225 - Corcoran -- Lackawanna College
36 - Vince Gallo - LB - 6-0 - 190 - Schalmont -- Merrimack College
40 - Dustyn Power - LB - 6-2 - 185 - Victor -- Alfred
42 - Chris Thompkins - DE - 6-2 - 220 - Webster Schroeder -- Robert Morris
43 - Mike Donitzen - FB - 6-0 - 215 - Liverpool -- St. John Fisher
44 - D.J. Ingham - FB - 6-2 - 230 - Fulton -- Brown
45 - Steve Kijowski - LB - 6-0 - 215 - N. Tonawanda -- Alfred
48 - Dave Fasolino - LB - 6-1 - 215 - Whitesboro -- Sacred Heart
50 - Macky MacPherson - OL - 6-3 - 255 - Syracuse CBA -- Syracuse
52 - Ben Woolsten - OL - 6-3 - 290 - Aquinas -- Mercyhurst
55 - Dillon Gallagher - OL - 6-3 - 270 - Williamsville So. -- Albany
56 - Jasen Carlson - OT - 6-2 - 300 - Southwestern -- Buffalo
58 - Dylan Hoffman - OL - 6-2 - 265 - New Hartford -- Rochester
60 - Jake Richardson - OL - 6-5 - 270 - Pittsford Mendon -- St. John Fisher
62 - Kyle Shreve - OL - 6-1 - 265 - N. Tonawanda -- Buffalo State
68 - Stephon Brown - DT - 5-8 - 260 - Henninger -- Alfred
70 - Matt Simmonds - DT - 6-3 - 270 - Fairport -- Cornell
71 - Kevin Gerlach - C - 6-2 - 275 - Williamsville So. -- Gannon
72 - Eric Cushing - DT - 5-8 - 270 - East Syracuse-Minoa -- Buffalo State
73 - Isaac Spikes - DE - 6-1 - 245 - Hornell -- Alfred State
76 - Matt Bonnanno - DT - 6-4 - 290 - Aquinas -- Lock Haven
77 - Austin Lane - OL - 6-5 - 290 - Shenendehowa -- Syracuse
78 - Dee Harris - DT - 6-4 - 305 - Liverpool -- Erie CC
84 - Jacob Meyers - TE - 6-6 - 210 - Burnt Hills-Ballston Lake -- RPI
87 - Zach Morton - DE - 6-4 - 220 - Burnt Hills-Ballston Lake -- Albany
88 - Christian Barczykowski - TE - 6-7 - 215 - Alden -- Niagara Co. CC
89 - Tyler Bowman - LB - 6-4 - 220 - Waverly -- Rochester

DOWNSTATE ROSTER

No. - Player - Pos. - Ht. - Wt. - High School -- College
2 - John Babin - WR - 6-2 - 205 - Warwick Valley -- Cortland State
3 - JeVahn Cruz - WR - 5-8 - 165 - Half Hollow Hills West -- Stony Brook
4 - Peter Dehazya - WR - 6-0 - 190 - Valley Stream Central -- Franklin & Marshall
5 - Isaiah Ferguson - DB - 6-5 - 187 - Mount Vernon -- ASA College
6 - Joshua Graham - DB - 5-7 - 170 - Poughkeepsie -- Milford Academy
7 - Lewis Edney - DB - 6-0 - 170 - New Rochelle -- Southern Connecticut
8 - Christopher Jean-Pierre - WR - 6-0 - 181 - Brentwood -- Bowling Green
9 - Steven Rene - WR - 5-8 - 171 - Carnarsie -- Syracuse
10 - John Kinder - QB - 6-3 - 190 - Lawrence -- Syracuse
11 - Ken Barnett - WR - 5-10 - 185 - Lawrence -- undecided
12 - Dan Scalo - QB - 6-2 - 205 - Monroe-Woodbury -- Pace
14 - Patrick Laird - WR - 6-3 - 205 - Monroe-Woodbury -- Army
15 - Dean Marlowe - DB - 6-2 - 175 - Holy Cross -- James Madison
17 - John Rose - DB - 5-10 - 190 - Holy Cross -- Hampton
19 - Jack Kelleher - K - 6-3 - 205 - Rye -- Fordham
20 - Marvin Staten - RB - 5-10 - 205 - Tottenville -- Akron
21 - Barry Surrett - DB - 5-9 - 190 - Newburg Free Academy -- Millersville
22 - Fred Locklary - DB - 5-11 - 185 - Newburg Free Academy -- Wagner
24 - Oyeleye Odewunmi - DB - 5-9 - 187 - Brooklyn Tech -- Brown
25 - Dave Thomas - RB - 5-10 - 190 - Roosevelt -- Dean College
28 - Joe Skrobola - LB - 6-1 - 225 - Pine Bush -- Lafayette
30 - Kevin Allen - RB - 5-10 - 210 - Freeport -- CW Post
31 - Davon Lawrence - LB - 6-0 - 185 - Sachem North -- Stony Brook
32 - Jawara Dudley - LB - 6-2 - 205 - Roosevelt -- Stony Brook
36 - Malcolm Cater - LB - 5-10 - 210 - Riverhead -- Syracuse
40 - Marcus Spearman - LB - 6-1 - 200 - Newburg Free Academy -- Lackawanna College
42 - Denzel McLarty - LB - 5-10 - 230 - Brooklyn Tech -- Bowdoin College
44 - Dale Codrington - DL - 6-0 - 208 - Holy Cross -- Bryant
45 - Pat Basil - DL - 5-11 - 260 - St. Anthony's -- Bryant
48 - Lou Dirienzo Jr. - LB - 5-11 - 195 - New Rochelle -- Southern Connecticut
50 - Chris Brathwaite - DL - 6-1 - 275 - Holy Cross -- Virginia
52 - Kevin Hauter - DL - 6-3 - 220 - William Floyd -- Stony Brook
55 - Joe Kirchner - DL - 6-0 - 215 - Sachem North -- Cortland State
56 - Mike Reichling - OL - 6-4 - 260 - Lawrence -- Mount Ida
57 - Robert Tierney-Welsh - DL - 6-3 - 265 - St. Anthony's -- Syracuse
58 - Matthew Morgan - OL - 6-3 - 275 - Susan E. Wagner -- Lock Haven
60 - Emanuel Mendoza - OL - 6-6 - 287 - Cardinal Hayes -- Holy Cross
62 - Trent Williamson - OL - 6-0 - 220 - Susan E. Wagner -- CW Post
68 - Joseph Wetherell - OL - 6-3 - 260 - Oceanside -- Williams College
70 - Quinton Witherspoon - DL - 6-2 - 270 - New Rochelle -- Cortland State
71 - Chris Richards - DL - 6-3 - 237 - Farmingdale -- Cortland State
72 - Peter Lodini - DL - 6-3 - 260 - North Rockland -- Central Connecticut
73 - Mike Lisi - OL - 6-2 - 275 - H. Frank Carey -- Suffield Academy
76 - Zach Jones - OL - 6-5 - 315 - Roy C Ketcham -- American International
77 - Anthony Borriello - OL - 6-2 - 285 - Ellenville -- Marist College
78 - Jaime Martinez - OL - 6-3 - 340 - Xaverian -- Sacred Heart
89 - Jared McFarlin - WR - 6-5 - 200 - Monroe-Woodbury -- Army

[AUKaz00]

Pep, how did Dwyer not elicit a text?  Not only did he nearly run for 400 yards in the playoffs, but he had the clinching INT in the championship game against Nanuet.  Could we be looking at another two-way player now that Manzer has graduated?

[AUPepBand]

Pep, how did Dwyer not elicit a text?  Not only did he nearly run for 400 yards in the playoffs, but he had the clinching INT in the championship game against Nanuet.  Could we be looking at another two-way player now that Manzer has graduated?

Sorry, AUKaz00, thought you had heard about Dwyer. Pep has known about Dwyer for awhile. It will be interesting to see how the new recruits will fit into the scheme of things.

Similarly, it will be interesting to see how our band's new recruits pan out. Pep is pumped!

Incidentally, AUKaz00Two staying at the z00? If so, when does the other kazoo get into Saxonville?

[Tags]

Pep, how did Dwyer not elicit a text?  Not only did he nearly run for 400 yards in the playoffs, but he had the clinching INT in the championship game against Nanuet.  Could we be looking at another two-way player now that Manzer has graduated?

Sorry, AUKaz00, thought you had heard about Dwyer. Pep has known about Dwyer for awhile. It will be interesting to see how the new recruits will fit into the scheme of things.

Similarly, it will be interesting to see how our band's new recruits pan out. Pep is pumped!

Incidentally, AUKaz00Two staying at the z00? If so, when does the other kazoo get into Saxonville?

Dwyer is too small to run for Alfred with any success. McCloud had the same type of success and can't run at the D3 level.

[Bombers798891]

Looks like the Empire 8 is getting some love in the pre-seaason Lindy's poll. Fisher is 14, and IC is 16.

13. Central
14. St. John Fisher
15. North Central
16. Ithaca
17. Willamette (Ore.)

I am a little surprised AU is not in the mix but you can never put too much stock in pre-season polls. It is incomplete information and does not really mean much. I still love to see E8 schools on the big board when they come out.

This may get me karma sniped, but whatever. Ithaca and Fisher at 16 and 14? Man, that seems high for a couple of 7-3 schools from a conference that hasn't exactly been lighting things on fire in the postseason recently.

I'd be stunned beyond belief if Ithaca's anywhere near that ranking by the end considering they have road games against Alfred, Fisher and Cortland (sorta).

There are three things in life you can bet on.  Death, taxes, and Bombers798891 bashing IC's football/basketball programs...

I won't get into basketball details on this board, but feel free to let me know when that team wins an NCAA/E8 tournament game.

I love how it's "bashing" when you point out facts that, hey, maybe a team isn't so great or ask that a team back up hype on the field/court.

Here, let's do an experiment with IC football. Let's take a look at their D3football.com preseason ranking and end-of-year ranking and see if the Bombers have justified the preseason rankings

2003: Preseason #9/End of season #10-- Considering they won two playoff games, I'd say that's a yes although, technically they were down a spot.

2004: Preseason #13/End of season #20-- Considering they missed the playoffs by losing to a 6-4 Brockport team, that's a no in my book. This was probably Welch's 3rd-best team in his 16 years here, but they didn't take care of business on the field.

2005: Preseason: #17/End of season #24-- Allowing 680 yards and 55 points in a first-round NCAA loss really doesn't do much for me.

2006: Preseason: #24/End of season: Unranked (37th if we want to be technical). Yeah, that's a no.

2007: Preseason: Unranked/End of season: #17. Hey, we finally have a team that outperforms their preseason ranking! Would have been great if MUC had been kept out of the East, because that team was on a roll and a half heading into the playoffs.

2008: Preseason: #18/End of season: #23. You know, as great as that team was for 10 weeks, I almost want to give them a yes here. But then I remember they lost at home to a Curry team Cortland stomped so thoroughly they could have named the score. This was also one of Welch's best teams, but like the 2004 team, they didn't play up to their potential.

2009: Preseason ranking #10/End of season ranking: Unranked: They couldn't even get into the "Also reviving votes" list. Yes, they had some injury problems and lost quite a bit of OL talent, but 7-3 isn't exactly earth-shattering

In seven years of rankings on this site, the Bombers have exceeded their preseason ranking ONE time. But yeah, why should I hold actual on-the-field performances against them? God forbid I think the team might actually have to win NCAA playoff games on a semi-regular basis in order to justify a consistent Top 25 ranking. There's a whole lot more value in just saying "Gooooo Bombers!"

[Bombers798891]

But bomber3, if you want to give me a reason they DO deserve that ranking, feel free. It's interesting that you rip the comment I make and offer no reason why you think I'm wrong, other then the fact that, I guess, you dislike me.

So why do you think the Bombers are justified at 16?

[Jonny Utah]

But bomber3, if you want to give me a reason they DO deserve that ranking, feel free. It's interesting that you rip the comment I make and offer no reason why you think I'm wrong, other then the fact that, I guess, you dislike me.

So why do you think the Bombers are justified at 16?

bombers798891,

Maybe the pollsters wanted to rank the bombers at #7 but looked at the same stats you did and decided to rank them at 16?

In all seriousness, even though the bombers have only finished ahead of where they have been ranked once in the past 7 years, most of the predictions were pretty close.

What happend the year after they finished unranked the last time? 

Or look at it this way, forget about the preseason rankings, just look at the end of season rankings for the bombers and compare this years preseason ranking to that number:

10, 20, 24, UR, 17, 23, UR.

Still a little high but not out of the ballbark by any means.

(disclosure:  I think the people that make these other polls don't do the research necessary to make a legit poll in the first place.)

[AUKaz00]

Pep, how did Dwyer not elicit a text?  Not only did he nearly run for 400 yards in the playoffs, but he had the clinching INT in the championship game against Nanuet.  Could we be looking at another two-way player now that Manzer has graduated?

Sorry, AUKaz00, thought you had heard about Dwyer. Pep has known about Dwyer for awhile. It will be interesting to see how the new recruits will fit into the scheme of things.

Similarly, it will be interesting to see how our band's new recruits pan out. Pep is pumped!

Incidentally, AUKaz00Two staying at the z00? If so, when does the other kazoo get into Saxonville?

Dwyer is too small to run for Alfred with any success. McCloud had the same type of success and can't run at the D3 level.

Vinson Hendrix is 5' 9" and 170 lbs.  Dwyer is 5' 8" and 170 lbs.  Is that one inch really that much of a difference?  And I don't remember McCloud (5' 9" and 180 lbs) taking any snaps at RB last year, so I'm not sure we can definitively say he couldn't run at this level.

Now, with that all said, the Saxons may have better options at tailback so that Austin and Andre both spend their time playing in the secondary and Vinson may be the exception since he certainly was an exceptional athlete.

[bomber3]

But bomber3, if you want to give me a reason they DO deserve that ranking, feel free. It's interesting that you rip the comment I make and offer no reason why you think I'm wrong, other then the fact that, I guess, you dislike me.

So why do you think the Bombers are justified at 16?

I don't necessarily disagree that Ithaca at 16 is a bit too high but am just noting if there is a glass half full/empty scenario, typically you take the half empty.  They were 7-3 (?) last year and lost alot on the defensive side of the ball and OL but if they went 8-2 or 9-1 no one would be surprised.  Yes, they are ranked a bit too high probably but the program has earned the respect of voters the past 25+ years with success year in and year out.

[dlippiel]

But bomber3, if you want to give me a reason they DO deserve that ranking, feel free. It's interesting that you rip the comment I make and offer no reason why you think I'm wrong, other then the fact that, I guess, you dislike me.

So why do you think the Bombers are justified at 16?

I don't necessarily disagree that Ithaca at 16 is a bit too high but am just noting if there is a glass half full/empty scenario, typically you take the half empty.  They were 7-3 (?) last year and lost alot on the defensive side of the ball and OL but if they went 8-2 or 9-1 no one would be surprised.  Yes, they are ranked a bit too high probably but the program has earned the respect of voters the past 25+ years with success year in and year out.

dlip hear's what you are saying but it is about time for Ithaca to earn that respect again as opposed to them just being given it. Their recent inconsistentcy and stumbles have really given most here in the east region reason to doubt IC being deserving of a top 25 preseason ranking. At this point, to dlip, they simply don't belong in this poll.

[Jonny Utah]

Maybe someone who has the time today can make a chart showing every easts teams final poll rankings over the last 8 years.  That might help.

Unless you want to make a football argument as to what teams should be in there based on what players are coming back or coming in, you can't just say Ithaca and SJF don't deserve to be there.  I mean, you could replace both those teams with some other OAC, WIAA, or midwest/south teams that I don't know about.

I am going to assume that the people who make these polls do just that.  They look at the rankings of east teams over the last 10 years and just put the team somewhere in the ballpark of those numbers.  There might be teams who finished in the d3 top 25 last year who don't have a history of finishing in the top 50 like Ithaca or SJF has.  So the pollster takes that into consideration into figuring out that some of those teams may not finish in the top 25 this next year based on their past 10 year history.