FB: Empire 8

[sjfcards]

Alfred hosts Fisher. They could give them a game, maybe beat them.

We've been historically successful against Alfred.

We have a strong OOC schedule...

Season ain't over yet.

Yeah you gotta hope for the AQ, I don't see a 2 loss team in the east getting a pool C...

I tend to agree with you upstate, but I am trying to think of a situation where a two loss team from the East makes it to the tournament without an AQ.
Maybe C-State if they lose to Montclaire and then IC at the end of the year. They would stil have a pretty solid resume.
IC, if they can run the table would have two losses to tournament teams (assuming Lyco gets in). I don't know if it is enough, but they would have wins against AU, Union, and SC. I think the tough deal for IC is that I doubt 3 E8 teams will get in, so they need to "eliminate" AU.
After that it is pretty slim pickens.

[Bombers798891]

Alfred hosts Fisher. They could give them a game, maybe beat them.

We've been historically successful against Alfred.

We have a strong OOC schedule...

Season ain't over yet.

Re: Cortland...it's always tough to know how good they really are depending on how the schedule breaks, but three straight shutouts are pretty impressive. Still, beating a team with a pulse would help...Cortland's not going to bring anything less than their A game to Ithaca. They'd love to end our season if we were 7-2.

Re: A Pool C bid, is their OOC really that strong? Union's 2-2, Widner is 3-2, St. Lawrence is 2-4. Lycoming looks legit, but it strikes me as just ok on balance. Lot depends on Cortland...all in all, seems slim to none.

Re: A Pool A bid, it's not happening, in a three-way tie, with all teams having one conference loss to each other, the next applicable tiebreak is overall losses. Ithaca's got two. In order for that tiebreak not to eliminate IC, Fisher would have to lose to Frostburg at home, and Alfred would have to lose to either RPI or Rochester. Fisher's not going to lose to Frostburg.

The Bombers are playing for pride, and to keep a couple of nice streaks alive. Nothing wrong there. They did it last season and turned in their two most impressive games of the season at the end.

An NCAA bid would end very badly.

[Frank Rossi]

Let me make this one clear:

If there are enough one-loss teams that can fulfill Pool C, no two-loss teams will be entering through at-large bids.  Listen to last week's ITH interview with Coach Delong, as he pretty much confirmed what Joy Solomon told us last year (Solomon is the Chairwoman of the Selection Committee).  Ithaca does not have a sufficient "link" to other regions to allow a comparison that would enable the Committee to shun a one-loss team in favor of Ithaca unless the one-loss team was a very weak East Region team historically.

Also, listen to last night's ITH, during which Pat Coleman and I discuss the idea that there have been so few upsets this year that there will likely be an abundance of one-loss teams vying for Pool C at the end of the season unless things change quickly.

This doesn't mean we agree with the one-loss-must scenario, as two-loss teams with strong schedules are being punished.  However, this is how it's been explained twice to us under the current regime.

[Frank Rossi]

Also, in case anyone wanted a reminder, here's the Empire 8 tiebreaker list as of July 2009:

TIE BREAKER

POLICIES and PROCEDURES

[7/31/09]

FOOTBALL

12.1 Conference Champion

12.1.1 The team with the highest wining percentage in conference play will be named the Empire 8 Champion and will earn the conference's automatic qualifier to the NCAA Tournament. In the event of a tie, all tied teams will be named co or tri-champions and all schools will receive an Empire 8 Champion crystal. The following criteria will be used to determine the E8's NCAA automatic qualifier:

(If a tie exists among three or more teams and one of the tied teams is eliminated by this process, the process will begin anew at No. 1 of the tie-breaking criteria among the remaining tied teams).

1. Head-to-Head results.

2. Results vs. lowest ranked conference teams (6th, 5th, etc) based on final season standings.

3. Results versus common non-league opponents (All teams must have played the same opponent).

4. Fewest overall losses. (Will revisit "cap" at 2009 meeting)

5. The team's overall strength of schedule (as determined by the NCAA Overall OWP, opponents' winning percentage; not OOWP, the opponents' opponents' winning percentage).

[theoriginalupstate]

Here's a scenario for discussion:

Lets say...

-SJF, DVC, Cort, SUNY-Maritime win out
-AU, MSU finish with one loss
-LL Rep
-NEFC Rep

What happens?

Does the committee leave out one of the 1 loss E8, NJAC runner up?

Does SUNY Maritime get a pool B and go in the East?

Will they ship DVC to the "South"?

[BoSox0322]

Alfred's qb looked really good... has he been lighting it up all year?  Plus he is huge

[Frank Rossi]

Here's a scenario for discussion:

Lets say...

-SJF, DVC, Cort, SUNY-Maritime win out
-AU, MSU finish with one loss
-LL Rep
-NEFC Rep

What happens?

Does the committee leave out one of the 1 loss E8, NJAC runner up?

Does SUNY Maritime get a pool B and go in the East?

Will they ship DVC to the "South"?

You can't look at this in a vacuum.  We don't know if there are enough one-loss teams in terms of strength and number that would merit exclusion of either of your one-loss prospects there. 

Another thing they have said to us twice is that if a quality East team (i.e., a Cortland State, SJF, Montclair) would go undefeated, MUC will not be the #1 seed in the East.  Thus, the need to "ship" teams to other brackets may not be there.  There is way to much football still to play -- but like I said earlier, there are a good number of potential one-loss runners up still on the radar.  I would still say that two-loss teams MUST win their AQ or be ready for either the ECACs or no more games after 11/13.

[theoriginalupstate]

Alfred's qb looked really good... has he been lighting it up all year?  Plus he is huge

He seems very streaky...

When he's good, he's almost unstoppable...

When he's off, he's an average QB...

[theoriginalupstate]

You can't look at this in a vacuum.  We don't know if there are enough one-loss teams in terms of strength and number that would merit exclusion of either of your one-loss prospects there. 

Another thing they have said to us twice is that if a quality East team (i.e., a Cortland State, SJF, Montclair) would go undefeated, MUC will not be the #1 seed in the East.  Thus, the need to "ship" teams to other brackets may not be there.  There is way to much football still to play -- but like I said earlier, there are a good number of potential one-loss runners up still on the radar.  I would still say that two-loss teams MUST win their AQ or be ready for either the ECACs or no more games after 11/13.

Oh Frank, stop going all Frank Rossi on me  ...

I know you guys don't like to talk about "football"...

I'm just trying to start a football conversation by laying out a scenario where the East has 9 teams that have legitimate claims to a playoff spot...

[Frank Rossi]

You can't look at this in a vacuum.  We don't know if there are enough one-loss teams in terms of strength and number that would merit exclusion of either of your one-loss prospects there. 

Another thing they have said to us twice is that if a quality East team (i.e., a Cortland State, SJF, Montclair) would go undefeated, MUC will not be the #1 seed in the East.  Thus, the need to "ship" teams to other brackets may not be there.  There is way to much football still to play -- but like I said earlier, there are a good number of potential one-loss runners up still on the radar.  I would still say that two-loss teams MUST win their AQ or be ready for either the ECACs or no more games after 11/13.

Oh Frank, stop going all Frank Rossi on me  ...

I know you guys don't like to talk about "football"...

I'm just trying to start a football conversation by laying out a scenario where the East has 9 teams that have legitimate claims to a playoff spot...

I count 8 under your scenario, though.

[theoriginalupstate]

You can't look at this in a vacuum.  We don't know if there are enough one-loss teams in terms of strength and number that would merit exclusion of either of your one-loss prospects there.  

Another thing they have said to us twice is that if a quality East team (i.e., a Cortland State, SJF, Montclair) would go undefeated, MUC will not be the #1 seed in the East.  Thus, the need to "ship" teams to other brackets may not be there.  There is way to much football still to play -- but like I said earlier, there are a good number of potential one-loss runners up still on the radar.  I would still say that two-loss teams MUST win their AQ or be ready for either the ECACs or no more games after 11/13.

Oh Frank, stop going all Frank Rossi on me  ...

I know you guys don't like to talk about "football"...

I'm just trying to start a football conversation by laying out a scenario where the East has 9 teams that have legitimate claims to a playoff spot...

I count 8 under your scenario, though.

GOD DAMNIT!!!

I wish I could count...

Nothing to see here folks...

Move along...

[theoriginalupstate]

Now that I have my daily brain fart out of the way here's a playoff scenario...

1) SJF (A)
2) DVC (A)
3) Cort (A)
4) AU (C)
5) MSU (C)
6) SUNY-Maritime (B)
7) LL Rep (A)
8.) NEFC Rep (A)

[PBR...]

Here's a scenario for discussion:

Lets say...

-SJF, DVC, Cort, SUNY-Maritime win out
-AU, MSU finish with one loss
-LL Rep
-NEFC Rep

What happens?

Does the committee leave out one of the 1 loss E8, NJAC runner up?

Does SUNY Maritime get a pool B and go in the East?

Will they ship DVC to the "South"?

IF DVC wins out and SJF runs the table, would hope they get the #1/#2 rankings in the east (no matter who gets each seed) and would be enough to keep MUC out of the east. Otherwise wouldn't be opposed to putting DVC down south...w/ wesley and some other teams 

[PBR...]

Alfred hosts Fisher. They could give them a game, maybe beat them.

We've been historically successful against Alfred.

We have a strong OOC schedule...

Season ain't over yet.

Yeah you gotta hope for the AQ, I don't see a 2 loss team in the east getting a pool C...

I tend to agree with you upstate, but I am trying to think of a situation where a two loss team from the East makes it to the tournament without an AQ.
Maybe C-State if they lose to Montclaire and then IC at the end of the year. They would stil have a pretty solid resume.
IC, if they can run the table would have two losses to tournament teams (assuming Lyco gets in). I don't know if it is enough, but they would have wins against AU, Union, and SC. I think the tough deal for IC is that I doubt 3 E8 teams will get in, so they need to "eliminate" AU.
After that it is pretty slim pickens.

unfortunately tough schedules don't get a team rewarded (history has shown that) come playoff time....there will be several 1 loss teams that get in ahead of IC, like it or not.

[theoriginalupstate]

Here's a scenario for discussion:

Lets say...

-SJF, DVC, Cort, SUNY-Maritime win out
-AU, MSU finish with one loss
-LL Rep
-NEFC Rep

What happens?

Does the committee leave out one of the 1 loss E8, NJAC runner up?

Does SUNY Maritime get a pool B and go in the East?

Will they ship DVC to the "South"?

IF DVC wins out and SJF runs the table, would hope they get the #1/#2 rankings in the east (no matter who gets each seed) and would be enough to keep MUC out of the east. Otherwise wouldn't be opposed to putting DVC down south...w/ wesley and some other teams 

Like I said a couple minutes ago..

Nothing to see here folks, move along...