FB: Empire 8

[sjfcards]

Alfred hosts Fisher. They could give them a game, maybe beat them.

We've been historically successful against Alfred.

We have a strong OOC schedule...

Season ain't over yet.

Yeah you gotta hope for the AQ, I don't see a 2 loss team in the east getting a pool C...

I tend to agree with you upstate, but I am trying to think of a situation where a two loss team from the East makes it to the tournament without an AQ.
Maybe C-State if they lose to Montclaire and then IC at the end of the year. They would stil have a pretty solid resume.
IC, if they can run the table would have two losses to tournament teams (assuming Lyco gets in). I don't know if it is enough, but they would have wins against AU, Union, and SC. I think the tough deal for IC is that I doubt 3 E8 teams will get in, so they need to "eliminate" AU.
After that it is pretty slim pickens.

unfortunately tough schedules don't get a team rewarded (history has shown that) come playoff time....there will be several 1 loss teams that get in ahead of IC, like it or not.

I can't argue with you. Unfortunately, history has shown that a tougher schedule does not reward the teams that play it if they lose a game OOC. That second loss is a real killer.

[Bombers798891]

One interesting question regarding the #1 seed in the East and IC's slim (non-existent) Pool C hopes. It seems like some of us think Cortland will not be as invested

Who gets the East's #1 seed if Cortland and Fisher both go undefeated? Now, since the Empire 8 is better than the NJAC, we'd probably all say Fisher.

But Cortland's players may believe something else. They may believe that their 10-0 should trump Fisher's and that dominating IC is their only shot to get a small leg up. They may be wrong but that's not the point. Players believe what they believe.

Now, I'm not saying Cortland could do that. Fact is, they haven't blown out Ithaca since 1996 (41-13). The blowouts tend to be on our side of the hill. And yeah, I guess playing for a playoff berth period is more important than seeding. But if Fisher and Cortland go in there at 9-0, the Dragons may think they're playing for the #1 seed, and they'll know what Fisher did to IC. So I think they could have an additional incentive

[PBR...]

One interesting question regarding the #1 seed in the East and IC's slim (non-existent) Pool C hopes. It seems like some of us think Cortland will not be as invested

Who gets the East's #1 seed if Cortland and Fisher both go undefeated? Now, since the Empire 8 is better than the NJAC, we'd probably all say Fisher.

But Cortland's players may believe something else. They may believe that their 10-0 should trump Fisher's and that dominating IC is their only shot to get a small leg up. They may be wrong but that's not the point. Players believe what they believe.

Now, I'm not saying Cortland could do that. Fact is, they haven't blown out Ithaca since 1996 (41-13). The blowouts tend to be on our side of the hill. And yeah, I guess playing for a playoff berth period is more important than seeding. But if Fisher and Cortland go in there at 9-0, the Dragons may think they're playing for the #1 seed, and they'll know what Fisher did to IC. So I think they could have an additional incentive

neither...sorry MUC will get it. History repeats itself. With UWW at #1 they will move MUC to the east again.

[theoriginalupstate]

neither...sorry MUC will get it. History repeats itself. With UWW at #1 they will move MUC to the east again.

In 2009 and 2008 there was no undefeated team in the East...

[fisherwins]

Upstate - Well played...
I am not a salt in the wound kind of guy- but



Screw Ithaca..............


enjoy at least a  3 loss season

Oh come on- that was only aimed at 2 of you ic faithful



82- great to see you and the fam!

I can take the knock and if I could go back this week I say the same thing.  Screw Fisher last week, this week, and next week!  A lot of people here want to see Fisher run the table and get the top seed but don't include me in that group.  I'll be rooting for Hartwick, Alfred, Frostburg, and Springfield the next month.  Its really not about being bitter either.  If we won by 50 yesterday I would say the same thing.  Oh well at least we have a 3 game winning streak against Cortland that we can look forward to extending...

Why the hatred for Fisher?  Did they reject your application for admission or something?

[Frank Rossi]

One interesting question regarding the #1 seed in the East and IC's slim (non-existent) Pool C hopes. It seems like some of us think Cortland will not be as invested

Who gets the East's #1 seed if Cortland and Fisher both go undefeated? Now, since the Empire 8 is better than the NJAC, we'd probably all say Fisher.

But Cortland's players may believe something else. They may believe that their 10-0 should trump Fisher's and that dominating IC is their only shot to get a small leg up. They may be wrong but that's not the point. Players believe what they believe.

Now, I'm not saying Cortland could do that. Fact is, they haven't blown out Ithaca since 1996 (41-13). The blowouts tend to be on our side of the hill. And yeah, I guess playing for a playoff berth period is more important than seeding. But if Fisher and Cortland go in there at 9-0, the Dragons may think they're playing for the #1 seed, and they'll know what Fisher did to IC. So I think they could have an additional incentive

neither...sorry MUC will get it. History repeats itself. With UWW at #1 they will move MUC to the east again.

I'd encourage you to listen to the Mike Delong and Joy Solomon interviews.  They both pretty clearly state that a power East team with zero losses will be the #1 seed in this bracket.

[PBR...]

One interesting question regarding the #1 seed in the East and IC's slim (non-existent) Pool C hopes. It seems like some of us think Cortland will not be as invested

Who gets the East's #1 seed if Cortland and Fisher both go undefeated? Now, since the Empire 8 is better than the NJAC, we'd probably all say Fisher.

But Cortland's players may believe something else. They may believe that their 10-0 should trump Fisher's and that dominating IC is their only shot to get a small leg up. They may be wrong but that's not the point. Players believe what they believe.

Now, I'm not saying Cortland could do that. Fact is, they haven't blown out Ithaca since 1996 (41-13). The blowouts tend to be on our side of the hill. And yeah, I guess playing for a playoff berth period is more important than seeding. But if Fisher and Cortland go in there at 9-0, the Dragons may think they're playing for the #1 seed, and they'll know what Fisher did to IC. So I think they could have an additional incentive

neither...sorry MUC will get it. History repeats itself. With UWW at #1 they will move MUC to the east again.

I'd encourage you to listen to the Mike Delong and Joy Solomon interviews.  They both pretty clearly state that a power East team with zero losses will be the #1 seed in this bracket.

guess people didn't sense the sarcasm in my post...although have to admit won't believe a east team will get a #1 seed over an undefeated  MUC team until pbr see's it...

*** take it 1 step further as pbr was thinking about this....currently DVC is ranked 12th in the d3 national poll and sjf is 18th. IF DVC were to win out imho don't see sjf then jumping them in the polls. What do the bracket peeps do then? You have a 1 loss dvc team that lost to a #1 seed Wesley on the road 21-17. You have a undefeated sjf team and 1 loss dvc team ranked ahead of sjf in the d3 football's national poll. Who do you make the #1 seed in the east? dvc/sjf/muc/cortland/another team? just food for thought...

[Bombers798891]

One interesting question regarding the #1 seed in the East and IC's slim (non-existent) Pool C hopes. It seems like some of us think Cortland will not be as invested

Who gets the East's #1 seed if Cortland and Fisher both go undefeated? Now, since the Empire 8 is better than the NJAC, we'd probably all say Fisher.

But Cortland's players may believe something else. They may believe that their 10-0 should trump Fisher's and that dominating IC is their only shot to get a small leg up. They may be wrong but that's not the point. Players believe what they believe.

Now, I'm not saying Cortland could do that. Fact is, they haven't blown out Ithaca since 1996 (41-13). The blowouts tend to be on our side of the hill. And yeah, I guess playing for a playoff berth period is more important than seeding. But if Fisher and Cortland go in there at 9-0, the Dragons may think they're playing for the #1 seed, and they'll know what Fisher did to IC. So I think they could have an additional incentive

neither...sorry MUC will get it. History repeats itself. With UWW at #1 they will move MUC to the east again.

I'd encourage you to listen to the Mike Delong and Joy Solomon interviews.  They both pretty clearly state that a power East team with zero losses will be the #1 seed in this bracket.

They define a "power" team? Or can we assume Cortland/Fisher fit that description? What about Alfred?

[labart96]

They didn't define a "power" team - what was inferred is that an undefeated league champion with a strong OOC schedule, etc. would get a serious look at the #1 seed.

We also discussed the same with Pat Coleman last night on ITH.

That said, if SJFC or ALF runs the table in the E8 they would be the likely #1 given either an undefeated Montclair or Cortland OCC wins would be over Westfield State (2-4 so far) and Ithaca (4-2, and a team that both the E8 teams would have already beaten).

Of course if Alfred beats Fisher and loses to IC it gets a lot more convoluted and more likely the NJAC champ could be the #1 seed.

[PBR...]

They didn't define a "power" team - what was inferred is that an undefeated league champion with a strong OOC schedule, etc. would get a serious look at the #1 seed.

We also discussed the same with Pat Coleman last night on ITH.

That said, if SJFC or ALF runs the table in the E8 they would be the likely #1 given either an undefeated Montclair or Cortland OCC wins would be over Westfield State (2-4 so far) and Ithaca (4-2, and a team that both the E8 teams would have already beaten).

Of course if Alfred beats Fisher and loses to IC it gets a lot more convoluted and more likely the NJAC champ could be the #1 seed.

so the d3 football polls are meaningless then?

[labart96]

Not meaningless - DVC is the highest ranked at the moment in the east but have an in region loss (albeit to the #3 team in the country).  Ultimately we'll have to see how things pan out when the NCAA posts it's initial rankings to see whether they view a team like DVC with a "quality loss" as stronger than other in region teams that are undefeated (albeit perhaps beating "inferior", i.e., not as strong as Wesley, competition).

Pat also alluded that shipping in Wesley to the "east region" is certainly a possibility in our discussion last night.

[PBR...]

Not meaningless - DVC is the highest ranked at the moment in the east but have an in region loss (albeit to the #3 team in the country). 

Pat also alluded that shipping in Wesley to the "east region" is certainly a possibility.

yup that was my thinking...that either muc or wesley is going to end up being the #1 seed in the east, regardless of dvc/sjf/etc....too many teams undefeated at the top of the polls to not make them #1 seeds and muc/wesley are close geographically to make them the top seed. It gives some food for thought as some would question the validity of the seedings when you would take the #18 ranked team and seed them over the #12 ranked team. (playing devils advocate here...so before you all sjf folks jump down pbr's throat)

[fisheralum91]

Well here is a question.
If the polls do indeed carry some weight, why then do some programs ie Fisher and Alfred not get as much preseason love, therefore making it virtually impossible to crack the top 10 even if they go undefeated simply because someone ahead of them started out with a higher rank and never lost either.
Who is to say who is better?

[pg04]

The polls are definitely meaningless when it comes to the NCAA selection committee. 

[theoriginalupstate]

The polls are definitely meaningless when it comes to the NCAA selection committee. 

Yeah the only thing that's relevant to the NCAA playoffs is the regional rankings...

This site's poll is extremely accurate, compared to the other ones out there, but the NCAA doesn't use Pat's poll (insert witty joke here) as a tool (feel free to do it again) to determine playoff seeds...