FB: Empire 8

[HSCTiger74]

I know I get shot down whenever I bring this up, but just out of curiosity: if Mount Union or UWW were moved up to D-II today, where in the pack would they stand? Would they be by far the worst? Somewhere in the middle? Somewhere (this is what I suspect) toward the bottom?

I think if they went over today, they would be top 50-75 immediately, with the same roster. UWW goes comparable with the middle of the pack in the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (lost a game a few years ago to St. Cloud State, which was UWW's first with a new quarterback), which seems to be a two-bid league on a regular basis. And it wouldn't take long for them to be competitive, I'd suspect, with the same coaching.

Oh I think they would be top 10 in D2 easily.  Even Bentley and the NE-10 teams make that D2 top ten and those teams would not beat MUC or UWW.  Once they start playing the powerhouses like North Alabama or Lake Superior State, they might start having some problems.

Just my opinion.

I don't know if I would put those programs as high as top 10, but I think they are in the top levls of DII right away. I have not seen a ton of DII games in the past, but I have watched teams from the Ivy league play several times in the past, and I don't think that they are that much better than a UMU or a UWW.

Obviously it is a step up from DIII and with scholarships (not the Ivy leagues, but DII teams) those teams can always attract a level of talent not seen at DIII. So, I guess this is a two part answer. I think if you put UMU or a UWW in DII with their current rosters, I think they are very competitive (2-4 losses is my guess), but if you give them a couple seasons with scholarships, I think they are firmly inside the top 10.

Another interesting thought along these lines is how far down the DIII ladder can you go before teams would get rolled in every game?

Probably not as far as we'd like to think (or hope).

[sjfcards]

I know I get shot down whenever I bring this up, but just out of curiosity: if Mount Union or UWW were moved up to D-II today, where in the pack would they stand? Would they be by far the worst? Somewhere in the middle? Somewhere (this is what I suspect) toward the bottom?

I think if they went over today, they would be top 50-75 immediately, with the same roster. UWW goes comparable with the middle of the pack in the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (lost a game a few years ago to St. Cloud State, which was UWW's first with a new quarterback), which seems to be a two-bid league on a regular basis. And it wouldn't take long for them to be competitive, I'd suspect, with the same coaching.

Oh I think they would be top 10 in D2 easily.  Even Bentley and the NE-10 teams make that D2 top ten and those teams would not beat MUC or UWW.  Once they start playing the powerhouses like North Alabama or Lake Superior State, they might start having some problems.

Just my opinion.

I don't know if I would put those programs as high as top 10, but I think they are in the top levls of DII right away. I have not seen a ton of DII games in the past, but I have watched teams from the Ivy league play several times in the past, and I don't think that they are that much better than a UMU or a UWW.

Obviously it is a step up from DIII and with scholarships (not the Ivy leagues, but DII teams) those teams can always attract a level of talent not seen at DIII. So, I guess this is a two part answer. I think if you put UMU or a UWW in DII with their current rosters, I think they are very competitive (2-4 losses is my guess), but if you give them a couple seasons with scholarships, I think they are firmly inside the top 10.

Another interesting thought along these lines is how far down the DIII ladder can you go before teams would get rolled in every game?

Probably not as far as we'd like to think (or hope).

Top 10?

[AUKaz00]

I think if you put UMU or a UWW in DII with their current rosters, I think they are very competitive (2-4 losses is my guess), but if you give them a couple seasons with scholarships, I think they are firmly inside the top 10.

Now I would think the opposite.  How many of the current players that gravitate toward Mount or U-Dub do so because they are the kings of the mountain?  And would they still flock to those teams if they were in the top 50 of D2 rather than the pinnacle?  The coaching is great, and that may be the difference maker, but I wonder if players trade down a level to play with the best rather than play at the level of their ability to play on a very good team.  So, I'd suppose that the current rosters would fare better than future rosters that had to recruit from a lower position in the relative rankings.

[Bombers798891]

I think if you put UMU or a UWW in DII with their current rosters, I think they are very competitive (2-4 losses is my guess), but if you give them a couple seasons with scholarships, I think they are firmly inside the top 10.

Now I would think the opposite.  How many of the current players that gravitate toward Mount or U-Dub do so because they are the kings of the mountain?  And would they still flock to those teams if they were in the top 50 of D2 rather than the pinnacle?  The coaching is great, and that may be the difference maker, but I wonder if players trade down a level to play with the best rather than play at the level of their ability to play on a very good team.  So, I'd suppose that the current rosters would fare better than future rosters that had to recruit from a lower position in the relative rankings.

Yeah, but then they'd get a D-II budget, and D-II facilities, and all that. And it's tough to quantify that impact

[Pat Coleman]

I know I get shot down whenever I bring this up, but just out of curiosity: if Mount Union or UWW were moved up to D-II today, where in the pack would they stand? Would they be by far the worst? Somewhere in the middle? Somewhere (this is what I suspect) toward the bottom?

I think if they went over today, they would be top 50-75 immediately, with the same roster. UWW goes comparable with the middle of the pack in the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (lost a game a few years ago to St. Cloud State, which was UWW's first with a new quarterback), which seems to be a two-bid league on a regular basis. And it wouldn't take long for them to be competitive, I'd suspect, with the same coaching.

Oh I think they would be top 10 in D2 easily.  Even Bentley and the NE-10 teams make that D2 top ten and those teams would not beat MUC or UWW.  Once they start playing the powerhouses like North Alabama or Lake Superior State, they might start having some problems.

Just my opinion.

I don't know if I would put those programs as high as top 10, but I think they are in the top levls of DII right away. I have not seen a ton of DII games in the past, but I have watched teams from the Ivy league play several times in the past, and I don't think that they are that much better than a UMU or a UWW.

Obviously it is a step up from DIII and with scholarships (not the Ivy leagues, but DII teams) those teams can always attract a level of talent not seen at DIII. So, I guess this is a two part answer. I think if you put UMU or a UWW in DII with their current rosters, I think they are very competitive (2-4 losses is my guess), but if you give them a couple seasons with scholarships, I think they are firmly inside the top 10.

Another interesting thought along these lines is how far down the DIII ladder can you go before teams would get rolled in every game?

Probably not as far as we'd like to think (or hope).

Agreed -- I think there might be only three or four D-III teams in any given year who can say the same. Just like other teams can't compete with MTU or UWW.

One thing about MTU and UWW in D-II -- they would be the best D-II teams in their respective states and they would still command top talent.

[Jonny Utah]

I know I get shot down whenever I bring this up, but just out of curiosity: if Mount Union or UWW were moved up to D-II today, where in the pack would they stand? Would they be by far the worst? Somewhere in the middle? Somewhere (this is what I suspect) toward the bottom?

I think if they went over today, they would be top 50-75 immediately, with the same roster. UWW goes comparable with the middle of the pack in the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (lost a game a few years ago to St. Cloud State, which was UWW's first with a new quarterback), which seems to be a two-bid league on a regular basis. And it wouldn't take long for them to be competitive, I'd suspect, with the same coaching.

Oh I think they would be top 10 in D2 easily.  Even Bentley and the NE-10 teams make that D2 top ten and those teams would not beat MUC or UWW.  Once they start playing the powerhouses like North Alabama or Lake Superior State, they might start having some problems.

Just my opinion.

I don't know if I would put those programs as high as top 10, but I think they are in the top levls of DII right away. I have not seen a ton of DII games in the past, but I have watched teams from the Ivy league play several times in the past, and I don't think that they are that much better than a UMU or a UWW.

Obviously it is a step up from DIII and with scholarships (not the Ivy leagues, but DII teams) those teams can always attract a level of talent not seen at DIII. So, I guess this is a two part answer. I think if you put UMU or a UWW in DII with their current rosters, I think they are very competitive (2-4 losses is my guess), but if you give them a couple seasons with scholarships, I think they are firmly inside the top 10.

Another interesting thought along these lines is how far down the DIII ladder can you go before teams would get rolled in every game?

I've only watched local d2 games (Bentley, Bryant, Merrimack) and they are nowhere near the IVY league teams.  I think the IVY and other 1-AA teams (James Madison, App st, William and Mary, etc) have made huge leaps up in the last 10/20/30 years.  In the 1970s and 1980s d3 teams like Ithaca could play a lot of those teams and do well.  Now the seperation between "small colleges" and the 1-aa scholorship programs is too great.

[Old IC Voice]

Some thoughts on this weekend's games:

Salisbury-Ithaca: This'll likely be a tough one for the Bombers. IC has a history of not traveling well, and they get to face an offense that's probably the best in the conference. I think the defense keeps it respectable, but the offense just can't match Salisbury's. I wouldn't bet against something like 28-14, with Salisbury putting the game away with a big 4th-quarter drive.

Alfred-RPI: Looking forward to this. Alfred gets home-field, but RPI should be eager to recover from 2010, where they started slow and finished 6-4. If the Liberty League wants to show it's better than last year, a good showing by RPI against the Saxons on the road would be a good start.

Fisher-Buff State: BSU started out the year fairly well, keeping things interesting against C-State. They get another tough test this week, though, going on the road to face a Fisher team that might be feeling overlooked with all the love for Salisbury and Alfred.

Springfield-Frostburg: Welcome to the E8, Bobcats. I wish I could say that they could be competitive this year given the tragic circumstances surrounding the program, but I think they'll certainly be overmatched here.

Utica-Union: Utica can put up the points, but did give up 35 to St. Lawrence. Union's coming off a tough loss to Salve Regina, though, and could be in a rebuilding year given the graduation of running back Chris Coney.

Hartwick-Norwich: I made the trip to Norwich last year for this game, and Hartwick had no answer for the Cadets' ground game. What could make this year's game closer is Norwich's defense, which allowed 513 yards to Western New England last week (including a 66-yard drive late in the fourth quarter that produced the game-winning score).

PICKS

Salisbury over Ithaca
Alfred over RPI
Fisher over Buff State
Springfield over Frostburg State
Utica over Union
Norwich over Hartwick (although the game's pretty much a toss-up)

[AUPepBand]

Some thoughts on this weekend's games:

Salisbury-Ithaca: This'll likely be a tough one for the Bombers. IC has a history of not traveling well, and they get to face an offense that's probably the best in the conference. I think the defense keeps it respectable, but the offense just can't match Salisbury's. I wouldn't bet against something like 28-14, with Salisbury putting the game away with a big 4th-quarter drive.

Alfred-RPI: Looking forward to this. Alfred gets home-field, but RPI should be eager to recover from 2010, where they started slow and finished 6-4. If the Liberty League wants to show it's better than last year, a good showing by RPI against the Saxons on the road would be a good start.

Fisher-Buff State: BSU started out the year fairly well, keeping things interesting against C-State. They get another tough test this week, though, going on the road to face a Fisher team that might be feeling overlooked with all the love for Salisbury and Alfred.

Springfield-Frostburg: Welcome to the E8, Bobcats. I wish I could say that they could be competitive this year given the tragic circumstances surrounding the program, but I think they'll certainly be overmatched here.

Utica-Union: Utica can put up the points, but did give up 35 to St. Lawrence. Union's coming off a tough loss to Salve Regina, though, and could be in a rebuilding year given the graduation of running back Chris Coney.

Hartwick-Norwich: I made the trip to Norwich last year for this game, and Hartwick had no answer for the Cadets' ground game. What could make this year's game closer is Norwich's defense, which allowed 513 yards to Western New England last week (including a 66-yard drive late in the fourth quarter that produced the game-winning score).

PICKS

Salisbury over Ithaca
Alfred over RPI
Fisher over Buff State
Springfield over Frostburg State
Utica over Union
Norwich over Hartwick (although the game's pretty much a toss-up)

Pep would agree with these picks.

Salisbury 28, Ithaca 9.....the trip to southern Maryland (likely started as early as now) can be brutal. Not sure of road conditions with all the flooding, either. Salisbury eager to challenge for the E8 title needs to start that bid tomorrow.

Alfred 31, RPI 19...No need for bulletin board inspiration here. On a weekend of remembering (9/11), the Saxon seniors have reminded the team that they are 0-2 against the Engineers.

Fisher 27, Buff State 21...Won't you come home, Tim Bailey, won't you come home? Cardinal offense adjusts to new leadership under center (or carrying a shotgun or a pistol), so point production will be down a bit, but defense will be good enough to hold the upstart Bengal Boyes to three TDs.

Springfield 49, Frostburg State 13...Bobcats overcame a Tornado at Geneva, but Pride cometh (to Frostburg) before the fall. Springfield's ground game....more like a flood.

Utica 35, Union 27...Pioneers are on the move, going to territories heretofore unknown. In a battle of the U's--a rising star and a (of late) falling star--the rising star is just a little better.

Norwich 31, Hartwick 30...Were this one on a hill in Oneonta, Pep would likely go the other way. But the Cadets, with their cannon ready to fire, take a shoot-out. Pep feels like a blind man....following the blind...or hearing (Old IC) Voices. Norwich indeed plays AT Hartwick Sept. 17. The Hawks have a week to prepare and there likely won't be any cannons in Oneonta...and if the Cadets bring them, they'll likely roll down the hill.

On Saxon Warriors!

[AUSaxons]

I'll take a stab at this weekends games as well.

Salisbury-Ithaca: I feel like this one will help to shape the "two tiers" that I believe are going to develop in this years E8. Salisbury has a great offense, but also a great D. I think Ithaca's D will keep it close atleast midway through the 3rd quarter, but when all is said and done i'll say 28-6 Salisbury

Alfred-RPI: The Saxons begin a highly anticipated 2011 campaign with a team who beat them last season. Now, looking at the weather report, it isnt supposed to be especially windy. That was what did the Saxons in last year, averaging something like 19 yards per punt and giving RPI the ball inside the 50 several times in the first quarter. For the following three quarters, AU dominated statistically but could not climb out of that early hole. I think the punting will be better this time around, and RPI will have real problems moving the ball on the AU defense. 31-10 Alfred.

Fisher-Buff State: Buff State played Cortland VERY tough, leading at the half and being within striking distance well into the 4th quarter. They'll play Fisher tough too, but when all is said and done they too will come up short. 35-24 SJF

Springfield-Frostburg: I was very glad to see Frostburg get a win for their fallen teammate week one. I wish them all the luck in the world this season. That all being said, I don't see this one ending well for them. Springfield brings back too much talent, too much experience, and it's a pretty long trip from Frostburg to Springfield. 42-14 SC

Utica-Union: Utica had a pretty impressive performance last weekend against defending LL Champ St Lawrence. They far exceeded historical expectations of their program. Union, on the other hand, lost to a Salve Regina team who is historically much worse then they are. Utica will look at this game as a chance to try to break into the "top tier" of the conference (which, right now, is Alfred, Fisher, Springfield and Salisbury). I think that, while they won't be in that top tier, they will distinguish themselves as the best of the 2nd tier and that's good enough to beat a struggling Union squad. 38-21 Utica

Hartwick-Norwich: This one is tough to pick. On one hand, it's hard for me to pick an ECFC team over an E8 team. On the other, Hartwick was not impressive against Mo'ville and lost to Norwich last season. Hartwick did improve towards the end of last season, and I can't get the 60-0 thrashing AU put on Maritime out of my head (I know, 2 different teams, but its impossible to just discount that after seeing how uncompetitive it really was. FAR moreso then the AU-Hartwick game). I'll say 20-14 Hartwick.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Some thoughts on this weekend's games:

Salisbury-Ithaca: This'll likely be a tough one for the Bombers. IC has a history of not traveling well, and they get to face an offense that's probably the best in the conference. I think the defense keeps it respectable, but the offense just can't match Salisbury's. I wouldn't bet against something like 28-14, with Salisbury putting the game away with a big 4th-quarter drive.

Alfred-RPI: Looking forward to this. Alfred gets home-field, but RPI should be eager to recover from 2010, where they started slow and finished 6-4. If the Liberty League wants to show it's better than last year, a good showing by RPI against the Saxons on the road would be a good start.

Fisher-Buff State: BSU started out the year fairly well, keeping things interesting against C-State. They get another tough test this week, though, going on the road to face a Fisher team that might be feeling overlooked with all the love for Salisbury and Alfred.

Springfield-Frostburg: Welcome to the E8, Bobcats. I wish I could say that they could be competitive this year given the tragic circumstances surrounding the program, but I think they'll certainly be overmatched here.

Utica-Union: Utica can put up the points, but did give up 35 to St. Lawrence. Union's coming off a tough loss to Salve Regina, though, and could be in a rebuilding year given the graduation of running back Chris Coney.

Hartwick-Norwich: I made the trip to Norwich last year for this game, and Hartwick had no answer for the Cadets' ground game. What could make this year's game closer is Norwich's defense, which allowed 513 yards to Western New England last week (including a 66-yard drive late in the fourth quarter that produced the game-winning score).

PICKS

Salisbury over Ithaca
Alfred over RPI
Fisher over Buff State
Springfield over Frostburg State
Utica over Union
Norwich over Hartwick (although the game's pretty much a toss-up)

Pep would agree with these picks.

Salisbury 28, Ithaca 9.....the trip to southern Maryland (likely started as early as now) can be brutal. Not sure of road conditions with all the flooding, either. Salisbury eager to challenge for the E8 title needs to start that bid tomorrow.

Alfred 31, RPI 19...No need for bulletin board inspiration here. On a weekend of remembering (9/11), the Saxon seniors have reminded the team that they are 0-2 against the Engineers.

Fisher 27, Buff State 21...Won't you come home, Tim Bailey, won't you come home? Cardinal offense adjusts to new leadership under center (or carrying a shotgun or a pistol), so point production will be down a bit, but defense will be good enough to hold the upstart Bengal Boyes to three TDs.

Springfield 49, Frostburg State 13...Bobcats overcame a Tornado at Geneva, but Pride cometh (to Frostburg) before the fall. Springfield's ground game....more like a flood.

Utica 35, Union 27...Pioneers are on the move, going to territories heretofore unknown. In a battle of the U's--a rising star and a (of late) falling star--the rising star is just a little better.

Norwich 31, Hartwick 30...Were this one on a hill in Oneonta, Pep would likely go the other way. But the Cadets, with their cannon ready to fire, take a shoot-out.

On Saxon Warriors!

wow. 
+k for creativity Pep

I see Fisher's next opponent is Hobart.  Hobart played a game last week against Dickinson but then has two weeks off before Fisher.  I find that intriguing.  That Dickinson game will probably feel like it was just a scrimmage by the time they actually play their next game against the Cardinals. 

[Yanks 99]

I think we are jumping ahead for the Hartwick-Norwich game.  I am pretty sure that SLU is out at Norwich this weekend, and that Wick is off this week.

I am also pretty sure that Norwich is at Hartwick this year, as Wick played out in Vermont last year.  That being said...I'll take the Wick over Norwich (clearly a biased opinion).  The 14 points were low against Morrisville...which is something that I think can be fixed over two weeks (if they do in fact have a bye week).  I was more happy with the 11 points they gave up, and holding Morrisville to just over 100 yards rushing as a team (half of which came on QB scrambles).

[Bombers798891]

I think we are jumping ahead for the Hartwick-Norwich game.  I am pretty sure that SLU is out at Norwich this weekend, and that Wick is off this week.

I am also pretty sure that Norwich is at Hartwick this year, as Wick played out in Vermont last year.  That being said...I'll take the Wick over Norwich (clearly a biased opinion).  The 14 points were low against Morrisville...which is something that I think can be fixed over two weeks (if they do in fact have a bye week).  I was more happy with the 11 points they gave up, and holding Morrisville to just over 100 yards rushing as a team (half of which came on QB scrambles).

Vis-a-vie Wick-Wich in two weeks-- The Cadets look all kind of awful. I get that WNEC was a top-flight NEFC team (whatever that's worth) but that game struck me as not as close as the score indicated. Norwich got outgained by 150 yards, and considering their passing game completed seven passes for a grand total of 38 yards, I'd like to think the corners on Team Boltus can handle that situation. Nine in the box and call it a day, no?

That said, the Wick's offense didn't exactly blow me away against Morrisville. Turnovers have a way of being fluky and coming in bunches, but they can shift a game quick (See: Ithaca/Brockport) seeing four of them is pretty ugly, as is the 14 points scored.

Wick's at home, but Norwich flat out stomped them last season. IDK, I guess I'll jump on the conference-homer bandwagon for Team Boltus: 24-13 Wick

[Jonny Utah]

A lot of NEFC guys have told me that WNEC is a big time sleeper this year.  Kind of an up and comming program.

[fisheralum91]

Looking forward to listening to Peter and Gene call the Fisher game this weekend!
If ya cant be there- they are a great team.

[Bombers798891]

Will Carter listed as a second stringer for this week's game against Salisbury...ugh. I feel a blowout brewing