FB: Empire 8

[sjfcards]

Sorry I have been away for so much posting action but the wife and I just had our first Baby. Welcome a new Fisher fan to the world, Finn.

Tough one to watch for the kids first game, but hopefully he will bring us good luck next week. Looks like we may need it.

As long as fisher an continue to beat his mom's school Ithaca we will look the other way on game #1

[pg04]

If we're not going to compare teams that may not have played each other, we might as well shut down this board!  There are 230+ teams in D3, there is bound to be some comparison between teams...If we don't compare teams this board may devolve into talking about baseball like the LL board. 


Congrats cards on the new addition. 

[Old IC Voice]

Don't know how many people would be interested, but this year's NCSA Power Rankings came out. View here: http://www.ncsasports.org/about-ncsa/power-rankings/%28year%29/2011/%28tab%29/3

Ithaca's the only football school in the rankings at #57, while basketball member Stevens Tech (#63) also made the list. Several Liberty League schools on it as well, and Salisbury makes what appears to be an erroneous appearance at #96/#228. Odd.

[boobyhasgameyo]

I agree with 82.

I wasnt going to say much after the Fisher disaster, but reading that IC would never give up 50+ at home was just crap.
Look, Fisher is going to have a tough year- and by that I agree with 82 and say 7-3 maybe 6-4, but IC is no pick of the litter here either.

Maybe you didn't agree with the specific way Bomber3 drove home his point, fine. But lighten up. We've rightfully admitted countless times over the years that Fisher has owned Ithaca over the past five seasons. Heck, even in 2008, when IC was the top true East seed for the NCAA's, we gave you credit for taking us behind the woodshed and beating us down. It's not like we're thumping our chests over this current team. Bomber3 admitted they have flaws, and I've done more then that.

Bomber3's point about IC not giving up 50+ at home to teams outside the top 10 might not be "true" in the literal sense of the word if you want to look at specific point totals, but he's simply saying that he doesn't think this Bomber team would have that kind of performance against teams of Hobart's caliber at home. What's wrong with that statement? It can't be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt? Lots of things we say on this board can't be "proven." And again, it's not an entirely off-the-wall notion that IC doesn't give up 56 points at home this season to any opponent, two of which (Alfred and Cortland) look to be Top 10-15 caliber.

Wouldn't your reaction to someone last week predicting "I think Hobart is going to shred Fisher and the Cardinals will allow 56 points and nearly 500 yards" have been similar to Bomber3's? Consider how your defense looked the first two weeks and the state of the LL to that point. You wouldn't have said something like "I think that's nuts. Fisher's not going to do that"? That's what I would have said, and I'm not even a Fisher fan.


But maybe IC will do that. Alfred and Cortland are coming into town this season after all. Heck, maybe it happens in two weeks when you guys come to Butterfield. Better IC teams than this one have been lit into by you guys. Maybe Welch will sell his soul to the devil, and IC will go 9-1 and host some NCAA games and we can test Bomber3's hypothesis that way.

That's kind of my point.  Nobody would have predicted Fisher would give up 56 to Hobart considering they gave up 10 points combined in the first two games...but they did.  So how somebody can speak in absolutes and say there is no way Ithaca would allow that many points to anybody outside of the top 10 is in my mind a ridiculous statement.  Any given Saturday. 

[dlippiel]

Sorry I have been away for so much posting action but the wife and I just had our first Baby. Welcome a new Fisher fan to the world, Finn.

Tough one to watch for the kids first game, but hopefully he will bring us good luck next week. Looks like we may need it.

As long as fisher an continue to beat his mom's school Ithaca we will look the other way on game #1

Congrats to you and your family sjfcards! +k

[Bombers798891]

I agree with 82.

I wasnt going to say much after the Fisher disaster, but reading that IC would never give up 50+ at home was just crap.
Look, Fisher is going to have a tough year- and by that I agree with 82 and say 7-3 maybe 6-4, but IC is no pick of the litter here either.

Maybe you didn't agree with the specific way Bomber3 drove home his point, fine. But lighten up. We've rightfully admitted countless times over the years that Fisher has owned Ithaca over the past five seasons. Heck, even in 2008, when IC was the top true East seed for the NCAA's, we gave you credit for taking us behind the woodshed and beating us down. It's not like we're thumping our chests over this current team. Bomber3 admitted they have flaws, and I've done more then that.

Bomber3's point about IC not giving up 50+ at home to teams outside the top 10 might not be "true" in the literal sense of the word if you want to look at specific point totals, but he's simply saying that he doesn't think this Bomber team would have that kind of performance against teams of Hobart's caliber at home. What's wrong with that statement? It can't be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt? Lots of things we say on this board can't be "proven." And again, it's not an entirely off-the-wall notion that IC doesn't give up 56 points at home this season to any opponent, two of which (Alfred and Cortland) look to be Top 10-15 caliber.

Wouldn't your reaction to someone last week predicting "I think Hobart is going to shred Fisher and the Cardinals will allow 56 points and nearly 500 yards" have been similar to Bomber3's? Consider how your defense looked the first two weeks and the state of the LL to that point. You wouldn't have said something like "I think that's nuts. Fisher's not going to do that"? That's what I would have said, and I'm not even a Fisher fan.


But maybe IC will do that. Alfred and Cortland are coming into town this season after all. Heck, maybe it happens in two weeks when you guys come to Butterfield. Better IC teams than this one have been lit into by you guys. Maybe Welch will sell his soul to the devil, and IC will go 9-1 and host some NCAA games and we can test Bomber3's hypothesis that way.

That's kind of my point.  Nobody would have predicted Fisher would give up 56 to Hobart considering they gave up 10 points combined in the first two games...but they did.  So how somebody can speak in absolutes and say there is no way Ithaca would allow that many points to anybody outside of the top 10 is in my mind a ridiculous statement.  Any given Saturday.

so why implement an offense thats absolute heighest ceiling is like a 3rd round exit in the big tourney?  I don't get it.   

Just a few days ago, you were making absolute assumptions about Fisher's limitations. So why can Bomber3 not make his?

Look, at the end of the we can't prove anything. The NESCAC doesn't participate in the NCAA's. Prove to me that Trinity wasn't better than MUC during the stretch where they won 31 straight games. There's no way to do it. If anyone can beat anyone on any given Saturday, if any scenario is possible to occur, we can't absolutely say that MUC was better than Trinity. Sure, we can assume that, and it's not like anyone would argue it, but you can't substantiate it any more than Bomber3 can substantiate his claim. If that argument is too far fetched, prove Whitewater was the best team in the country last season. All we know is that they're better than the 15 teams they played. How do we know, for example, that had Whitewater been moved East and MUC kept wherever they are, that Tom Secky wouldn't have destroyed Whitewater? We don't. We assume it, based on the evidence we have. And we say that Whitewater was the best team in the country, even though we can't even prove they're better than Alfred. Heck, for all we can prove, Whitewater would have gone 15-216 against the whole of D-III last year

But we accept that we can't prove everything, and instead make assumptions based on the evidence at hand, even if we sound like we're not. Just like you did when you made you comment about how Fisher's "absolute ceiling" is the 3rd round of the NCAA. Just like Bomber3 did. The question we have to ask is: how reasonable is that assumption? Clearly, you don't think his was reasonable. Okay fine. I personally think it is. We can agree to disagree

[AUPepBand]

Thanks to all for some lively reading material, Pep's got a bandwagon filled with karma he's dishing out tonight, so let the karma fall where it may....

On Saxon Warriors!

[bomber3]

Whats the story with Hartwick?  Putting up 3 points against Mount Ida doesn't seem very imposing.  They have beaten Morrisville (who is 0-3 but nearly beat Montclair) and 1-3 Norwich - so they obviously they aren't world beaters. 

Obviously, Ithaca is favored but what are the odds of an upset here?  The weather is expected to be rainy, windy, and 45 degrees Saturday so hello, fall.  From what I hear Hartwick blitzes a good amount, which I don't think will affect Ithaca very much.  Given the QB situation, Ithaca doesn't do a lot of drop back passing or run many deep routes so I wouldn't think it would have much impact.  I have a feeling Ithaca is going to feast off turnovers - Hartwick has 11 already through 3 games.  The offense needs to continue to progress and build on the moderate success they experienced against Union - they will be needed a lot more in the coming weeks.

[AUPepBand]

Pep is wondering....saw some clips of the Hobart-Fisher game and it appeared the visitor side had the taller bleachers that at one time had been facing what is now the track and field complex. Anyone who's been to Growney this year....is Pep correct in his assessment of the situation?

Pep was pleased in 2009 that Fisher staff was gracious and accommodating, allowing the band to sit at the top of the home grandstand, where it was joined by a good number of Saxon fans.

Another question for any Fisher fans....with the 4 p.m. start, Pep is assuming that the visitor bleachers are on the east side of Growney? Likely there won't be any sun as forecast has high of 49 degrees and showers.    But time will tell.

[fisheralum91]

Pep, the stands (such as they are) are indeed on the east side.
They didnt look new, as I think the new track and field complex is only done with one of its phases.
Sorry for the bad news but it looks like you will be sitting on those old stands for another year.

[Old IC Voice]

Obviously, Ithaca is favored but what are the odds of an upset here?  The weather is expected to be rainy, windy, and 45 degrees Saturday so hello, fall.  From what I hear Hartwick blitzes a good amount, which I don't think will affect Ithaca very much.  Given the QB situation, Ithaca doesn't do a lot of drop back passing or run many deep routes so I wouldn't think it would have much impact.  I have a feeling Ithaca is going to feast off turnovers - Hartwick has 11 already through 3 games.  The offense needs to continue to progress and build on the moderate success they experienced against Union - they will be needed a lot more in the coming weeks.

The biggest thing Hartwick has going for it against IC is The Cage. IC's struggles on the road have been well-documented over the years, and their last few trips to Oneonta haven't been great. The '07 team was stunned there by Boltus and Company, and the '09 squad got a really good game from the Hawks where 'Wick had a chance to tie it on the last drive of the game but threw a pick.

On paper, IC should roll, but they need to put their past adventures in The Cage behind them to do so.

[fisheralum91]

The cage......Quite possibly the WORST collegiate football experience anybody could have......
Just a mess from the word go.

[dlippiel]

Obviously, Ithaca is favored but what are the odds of an upset here?  The weather is expected to be rainy, windy, and 45 degrees Saturday so hello, fall.  From what I hear Hartwick blitzes a good amount, which I don't think will affect Ithaca very much.  Given the QB situation, Ithaca doesn't do a lot of drop back passing or run many deep routes so I wouldn't think it would have much impact.  I have a feeling Ithaca is going to feast off turnovers - Hartwick has 11 already through 3 games.  The offense needs to continue to progress and build on the moderate success they experienced against Union - they will be needed a lot more in the coming weeks.

The biggest thing Hartwick has going for it against IC is The Cage. IC's struggles on the road have been well-documented over the years, and their last few trips to Oneonta haven't been great. The '07 team was stunned there by Boltus and Company, and the '09 squad got a really good game from the Hawks where 'Wick had a chance to tie it on the last drive of the game but threw a pick.

On paper, IC should roll, but they need to put their past adventures in The Cage behind them to do so.

Honestly being as objective as possible, in dlip's eyes, unless Boltus makes a surprise return to the cage IC should dominate this game. Again, the only question mark seems to be the health of Wick's starting QB. Without him the team couldn't put more than 3 on Mt. IDA.

[Bombers798891]

Obviously, Ithaca is favored but what are the odds of an upset here?  The weather is expected to be rainy, windy, and 45 degrees Saturday so hello, fall.  From what I hear Hartwick blitzes a good amount, which I don't think will affect Ithaca very much.  Given the QB situation, Ithaca doesn't do a lot of drop back passing or run many deep routes so I wouldn't think it would have much impact.  I have a feeling Ithaca is going to feast off turnovers - Hartwick has 11 already through 3 games.  The offense needs to continue to progress and build on the moderate success they experienced against Union - they will be needed a lot more in the coming weeks.

The biggest thing Hartwick has going for it against IC is The Cage. IC's struggles on the road have been well-documented over the years, and their last few trips to Oneonta haven't been great. The '07 team was stunned there by Boltus and Company, and the '09 squad got a really good game from the Hawks where 'Wick had a chance to tie it on the last drive of the game but threw a pick.

On paper, IC should roll, but they need to put their past adventures in The Cage behind them to do so.

I just can't see IC losing this game* and I'm cynical, so believe me, I looked, if for no other reason than to get Bomber3 all riled up .

The Bombers have struggled in the Cage, and I think there is some merit to teams struggling in certain places. But the Wick's only good offensive performance came against Norwich. In their other two games--neither of which came against great teams, frankly, they had 17 points and 9 turnovers. IC's defense--especially if Will Carter is back--is good enough to shut down the Wick. Corbett was certainly bad last week, but Brainard (22-50, 2 TD, 2 INT) wasn't exactly Boltus 2.0 either.

The Bombers still have offensive issues, but they are finally settled on a quarterback (I would guess), as Hendel has clearly outplayed Neumann. And they've had an extra week to get him ready for this game. To be fair, Hendel's career to this point was summed up to me as follows: "He might be a really good quarterback but he turns it over every four plays in practice", but so far, one pick in 58 attempts this season is an excellent start.

Unless Hendel goes turnover crazy, I concur with Dlip. Hartwick's offense seems too inconsistent and turnover prone to mount much of a threat, and I think IC will have a lot of short fields. Even if your defense plays admirably, as Union's did against IC two weeks ago, it's really hard to keep points off the board in that situation

*"Any Given Saturday" issues aside

[saxontad]

Cannot wait to sit next to the Pep Band at Growney on Saturday.  It was a blast two years ago!!

On Saxon Warriors!


p.s.  I always liked the Fisher gold helmets, but the photos seem to show the new ones are pretty cool.  Look forward to seeing them in person.