FB: Empire 8

[Frank Rossi]

Again, this has been missing from the evaluation of the potential move -- the Springfield effect for Rochester is an important issue that I believe may be at least somewhat at play here.  Springfield adds another mandatory overnight travel game to the schedule for Rochester every other year.  In years where Rochester plays 4 of their 7 LL games on the road, keeping the Courage Bowl (a neutral field game) and either Alfred or Case (or both) would mean potentially only 4 home games and 6 games away from home.  If the Courage Bowl wasn't a neutral field game, they could make that 5/5.  Football can be a very expensive sports for a school like Rochester, and the costs just went up with the entry of Springfield.  Revenue from tickets, apparel, concession, etc., do defray those expenses, but that requires having home games.  I think the math is more at play here than the height of the opposition.

Okay, but what are you losing, money-wise, from one home game? According to the UR Website, the attendance for the one home game this season was 1,000. While I'm sure this is too round to be anything but a ballpark estimate, here were the numbers from last season:

1612
1253
2321
1150

So while it may depend on who plays, 1,500 fans doesn't seem like an unreasonable assumption. So now, what do tickets cost at UR? Are they free for students and faculty (they are at IC) because if so, that will eat into it significantly. How much food and apparel can you sell to 1,500 people?

Now, you have to figure game day costs like staffing. After all, someone's got to be running those concession stands/apparel stands. So subtract that as well.

I mean, honestly, we're not talking Michigan here. U of R's athletic budget would hardly feel a massive impact from losing one home game. (Although, if someone knows the specific numbers and I'm wrong, let me know.)

Then, even if you come away with a decent profit after all that, you have to factor in the cost of no longer being in the Courage Bowl. Does it decrease the visibility of the program in the community? Does it mean there are sponsorship or advertising opportunities you will no longer get? What if an alum has the same reaction as the organizer and decides the football program won't be getting his $100 donation anymore? These things come into play.

All in all, I just don't see the revenue generated/lost by one football home game for a program like U of R to be that significant.

There were still staffing and other costs related to the Courage Bowl, so those costs were common costs.  Also, it costs more for any road game in terms of the staging costs and setup -- normally, I'd guess, the schools are using hourly employees to set those things up.

I understand what you're getting at, but my point lays more in the idea that home games are revenue neutral at the very least in most cases, while away games are revenue losers.  U of R might want to minimize the impact while keeping the UAA affiliation in play with Case.  Anyone know if Alfred is still on their schedule next season? 

Point is that Springfield's inclusion in the LL will cause western LL teams to face some concerns in the economics of it all -- I'm curious to see how Hobart handles this since the program has notoriously been economically tight when it comes to postseason and scheduling issues.

[Frank Rossi]

I get that but it isn't necessary. They could easily not play that game. They could also go back to scheduling 10 games if the lack of home games is a burden.

9 games vs. 10 is more a fiscal issue and an admission to me that home games are only revenue-neutral scenarios.  I also think the Case game provides them Ohio-based exposure for school purposes.  Thus, I don't see that game disappearing based on the utility of that game.

[Pat Coleman]

U of R gets plenty of exposure in Cleveland and other cities from its other sports traveling. It's not like there's big local coverage of Case football in the papers and TVs that merits a trip there for that purpose every two years. If it provides exposure for football purposes, I could see that, but not for school purposes.

[AUPepBand]

Again, this has been missing from the evaluation of the potential move -- the Springfield effect for Rochester is an important issue that I believe may be at least somewhat at play here.  Springfield adds another mandatory overnight travel game to the schedule for Rochester every other year.  In years where Rochester plays 4 of their 7 LL games on the road, keeping the Courage Bowl (a neutral field game) and either Alfred or Case (or both) would mean potentially only 4 home games and 6 games away from home.  If the Courage Bowl wasn't a neutral field game, they could make that 5/5.  Football can be a very expensive sports for a school like Rochester, and the costs just went up with the entry of Springfield.  Revenue from tickets, apparel, concession, etc., do defray those expenses, but that requires having home games.  I think the math is more at play here than the height of the opposition.

Okay, but what are you losing, money-wise, from one home game? According to the UR Website, the attendance for the one home game this season was 1,000. While I'm sure this is too round to be anything but a ballpark estimate, here were the numbers from last season:

1612
1253
2321
1150

So while it may depend on who plays, 1,500 fans doesn't seem like an unreasonable assumption. So now, what do tickets cost at UR? Are they free for students and faculty (they are at IC) because if so, that will eat into it significantly. How much food and apparel can you sell to 1,500 people?

Now, you have to figure game day costs like staffing. After all, someone's got to be running those concession stands/apparel stands. So subtract that as well.

I mean, honestly, we're not talking Michigan here. U of R's athletic budget would hardly feel a massive impact from losing one home game. (Although, if someone knows the specific numbers and I'm wrong, let me know.)

Then, even if you come away with a decent profit after all that, you have to factor in the cost of no longer being in the Courage Bowl. Does it decrease the visibility of the program in the community? Does it mean there are sponsorship or advertising opportunities you will no longer get? What if an alum has the same reaction as the organizer and decides the football program won't be getting his $100 donation anymore? These things come into play.

All in all, I just don't see the revenue generated/lost by one football home game for a program like U of R to be that significant.

There were still staffing and other costs related to the Courage Bowl, so those costs were common costs.  Also, it costs more for any road game in terms of the staging costs and setup -- normally, I'd guess, the schools are using hourly employees to set those things up.

I understand what you're getting at, but my point lays more in the idea that home games are revenue neutral at the very least in most cases, while away games are revenue losers.  U of R might want to minimize the impact while keeping the UAA affiliation in play with Case.  Anyone know if Alfred is still on their schedule next season? 

Point is that Springfield's inclusion in the LL will cause western LL teams to face some concerns in the economics of it all -- I'm curious to see how Hobart handles this since the program has notoriously been economically tight when it comes to postseason and scheduling issues.

......on Warriors!

The Saxons' visit to Fauver Stadium Oct. 29, 2011 completes a four-year contract. AU has two more games in a four-year deal with RPI (2012 and 2013), and continues its long-term series with St. Lawrence in its out-of-conference contests in 2012 and 2013. Not sure whether AU has yet secured a 10th game for 2012. Open dates include Sept. 1 and Sept. 29.

On Saxon Warriors!

[maxpower]

......on Warriors!

+k. As Eddie Izzard would say, "well remembered."

[AUPepBand]

......on Warriors!

+k. As Eddie Izzard would say, "well remembered."

Back at ya, Max! +K

[AUPepBand]

Pep, is the band making the trip south?

Well, Tad, since the team has gone south, you think the band should follow?   

But seriously, Pep hasn't bounced the idea off the band. Truth be told, if Pep doesn't go, the band usually stays home. Pep hasn't mowed his lawn since early to mid-September and was reminded of the fact at lunchtime today. Pep was approaching the Pep Estate just in time to observe a dog owner allowing her pet to do his business on my "lawn." Now Pep is a pretty tolerant fellow. And in his many years, Pep has been shat upon many times, but Pep didn't appreciate the fact that the lawn he will mow this weekend will be littered with mines. So as the dog completed the task and the owner went on her merry way, Pep turned the bandwagon around and drove up to have a few words with said dog owner.

Pep: "Nice looking dog. So, do you live around here?"
Dog owner: "No, I live in Hornell."
Pep: "I couldn't help but notice you allowed your dog to take a crap on my lawn. You know, I'm going to be mowing that lawn there and I really don't like stepping in dog poop."
Dog owner: "My apologies. I will go get a bag and clean it up."
Pep: "Thank you very much."

Having seen the dirty deed, Pep is just hoping one of us has remembered, when it comes time to mow the lawn Saterday....or else Pep will be tracking dog crap.

Now Pep is just hoping his Saxons don't poop on the Frostburg turf this Saterday.

On Saxon Warriors!

[saxontad]

Pep, is the band making the trip south?

Well, Tad, since the team has gone south, you think the band should follow?   

But seriously, Pep hasn't bounced the idea off the band. Truth be told, if Pep doesn't go, the band usually stays home. Pep hasn't mowed his lawn since early to mid-September and was reminded of the fact at lunchtime today. Pep was approaching the Pep Estate just in time to observe a dog owner allowing her pet to do his business on my "lawn." Now Pep is a pretty tolerant fellow. And in his many years, Pep has been shat upon many times, but Pep didn't appreciate the fact that the lawn he will mow this weekend will be littered with mines. So as the dog completed the task and the owner went on her merry way, Pep turned the bandwagon around and drove up to have a few words with said dog owner.

Pep: "Nice looking dog. So, do you live around here?"
Dog owner: "No, I live in Hornell."
Pep: "I couldn't help but notice you allowed your dog to take a crap on my lawn. You know, I'm going to be mowing that lawn there and I really don't like stepping in dog poop."
Dog owner: "My apologies. I will go get a bag and clean it up."
Pep: "Thank you very much."

Having seen the dirty deed, Pep is just hoping one of us has remembered, when it comes time to mow the lawn Saterday....or else Pep will be tracking dog crap.

Now Pep is just hoping his Saxons don't poop on the Frostburg turf this Saterday.

On Saxon Warriors!

May I take this as a no?

On Saxon Warriors!!

[maxpower]

Now Pep is just hoping his Saxons don't poop on the Frostburg turf this Saterday.

Or worse, that they don't simply follow Frostburg all over the field, rubbing themselves....

[saxontad]

Now Pep is just hoping his Saxons don't poop on the Frostburg turf this Saterday.

Or worse, that they don't simply follow Frostburg all over the field, rubbing themselves....

All kidding aside I just hope they have recovered enough from last Saterday to actually play some spirited ball.

On Saxon Warriors!!

[sjfcards]

Now Pep is just hoping his Saxons don't poop on the Frostburg turf this Saterday.

Or worse, that they don't simply follow Frostburg all over the field, rubbing themselves....

All kidding aside I just hope they have recovered enough from last Saterday to actually play some spirited ball.

On Saxon Warriors!!

I feel bad for Frostburg honestly. Playing AU was always going to be a tough game for the Bobcats, but after what happened last week, AU will be looking for blood. I think AU wins big.

[AUPepBand]

Now Pep is just hoping his Saxons don't poop on the Frostburg turf this Saterday.

Or worse, that they don't simply follow Frostburg all over the field, rubbing themselves....

Gosh, Max, if Pep could, he'd give you another +K for "well remembered." (You remember that Library Assistant Workshop Story?) 

[AUPepBand]

Now Pep is just hoping his Saxons don't poop on the Frostburg turf this Saterday.

Or worse, that they don't simply follow Frostburg all over the field, rubbing themselves....

All kidding aside I just hope they have recovered enough from last Saterday to actually play some spirited ball.

On Saxon Warriors!!

I feel bad for Frostburg honestly. Playing AU was always going to be a tough game for the Bobcats, but after what happened last week, AU will be looking for blood. I think AU wins big.

Personally, Pep will be delighted if the Saxons, win or lose, can put together a solid effort from both sides of the ball. That loss was demoralizing. One of two things can come out of it...1) Humbled Saxons shed their "swagger" and get back to the task at hand of taking care of the rock and playing solid ball, or, 2) Saxons, wallowing in self-pity, continue their fall.

Pep is confident that the Saxons will respond appropriately and give the Bobcats a solid game for Frostburg's Homecoming.

On Saxon Warriors!

[pumkinattack]

I agree with one of the IC posters that a lot of this speculation and conjecture has more to do with the historical relationship between Fisher and Rochester, and I don't mean on the football field, but rather institutionally. 

I think what people are ignoring is that UofR is the most national of all the schools in NY State, perhaps in the entire east region.  I'm sure someone will tout their school's communications program or engineering or whatever, but it's really true that Rochester is more concerned with outside of Rochester, perhaps outside of NY State much more than they are with Fisher, Brockport, etc. 

How about this, UofR doesn't see a reason to keep the game in their view as it relates to the schedule going forward, their relationship with the city or Fisher, institutional considerations, etc.  That doesn't mean they're lowlife's or suggest anything about their character.  The results are judged on whether the decision they make results in the outcomes they desired and/or hypothesized to occur.

And how is a rumor that the UofR AD ran over to Mervis to say the game is over get thrown out, is repeated by at least one other, all after it's proven that this isn't the case, and yet no one's called out on that?  That sort of thing calls more character into question than anything that can be derived from this non-journalistic article (and I say that having had a great professor and friend at Hobart who's wife worked at the D&C for many years, so I have some relationship to that firm as well).   

[Yanks 99]

I agree with one of the IC posters that a lot of this speculation and conjecture has more to do with the historical relationship between Fisher and Rochester, and I don't mean on the football field, but rather institutionally. 

I think what people are ignoring is that UofR is the most national of all the schools in NY State, perhaps in the entire east region.  I'm sure someone will tout their school's communications program or engineering or whatever, but it's really true that Rochester is more concerned with outside of Rochester, perhaps outside of NY State much more than they are with Fisher, Brockport, etc. 

How about this, UofR doesn't see a reason to keep the game in their view as it relates to the schedule going forward, their relationship with the city or Fisher, institutional considerations, etc.  That doesn't mean they're lowlife's or suggest anything about their character.  The results are judged on whether the decision they make results in the outcomes they desired and/or hypothesized to occur.

And how is a rumor that the UofR AD ran over to Mervis to say the game is over get thrown out, is repeated by at least one other, all after it's proven that this isn't the case, and yet no one's called out on that?  That sort of thing calls more character into question than anything that can be derived from this non-journalistic article (and I say that having had a great professor and friend at Hobart who's wife worked at the D&C for many years, so I have some relationship to that firm as well).   

I would put RPI on their same level.  You aren't wrong in any of your thought process above...just my two cents based on the fact that RPI seems to make the top 50 overall schools list every year (US News and the Princeton Review), along with Rochester, and not just for their engineering program.

And I don't even like RPI...

EDIT...I would have added Cornell, but I didn't think they were relevent to the discussion as they do not have a D3 football team.