FB: Empire 8

[middlerelief]

So in response to the post by "repete" regarding "that the East has no conference as strong top-to-bottom"

I guess it would depend on how one defines a strong conference. - The Minnesota conference prior to the money of St. Thomas was a two horse race between Bethel and St. Johns. And while St. Johns did win a Stagg bowl I think at the start of the last decade - Bethel got slapped around pretty handily when it had its cup of coffee in the Semis. In the other two conference folks like to highlight the OAC and the WIAC - there hasn't bee a different conference champion ever in one and 7 years and counting in there other.

Hard to make a claim that a conference is good or strong when it isn't competitive amongst themselves. 

Regardless - the East, or NY perhaps, has some ground to gain. 

[Jonny Utah]

So in response to the post by "repete" regarding "that the East has no conference as strong top-to-bottom"

I guess it would depend on how one defines a strong conference. - The Minnesota conference prior to the money of St. Thomas was a two horse race between Bethel and St. Johns. And while St. Johns did win a Stagg bowl I think at the start of the last decade - Bethel got slapped around pretty handily when it had its cup of coffee in the Semis. In the other two conference folks like to highlight the OAC and the WIAC - there hasn't bee a different conference champion ever in one and 7 years and counting in there other.

Hard to make a claim that a conference is good or strong when it isn't competitive amongst themselves. 

Regardless - the East, or NY perhaps, has some ground to gain.

I don't know if anyone can say that the Minnesota conference isn't a good one.  I was always under the impression that it was one of the best in the country every year.

That being said, it seems that the team that we think should go to the final 4 from the east each year seems to get upset by a lesser ranked eastern team.  That doesn't seem to happen in the other regions. 

That being said, maybe the top teams from the other regions are simply too good to get upset and wouldn't get upset by even the top teams from the east.

[repete]

Middle: You cherrypicked that quote a bit. I wrote: "the East has no conference as strong top-to-bottom as the WIAC."

Despite UWW's recent dominance, there's tremendous depth under it from a league of teams that is very balanced. Look where UWW's most recent non-Mount losses have come from .... Linfield? Wesley, Mary Hardin Baylor? SJF? Nope. It's had four two-score victories this season ... all in the league.

Utes: I can pull the quotes, they are there.  As for upsets in other regions, St. Thomas was upset in the regional finals last year ... by MIAC rival Bethel.

[Jonny Utah]

Middle: You cherrypicked that quote a bit. I wrote: "the East has no conference as strong top-to-bottom as the WIAC."

Despite UWW's recent dominance, there's tremendous depth under it from a league of teams that is very balanced. Look where UWW's most recent non-Mount losses have come from .... Linfield? Wesley, Mary Hardin Baylor? SJF? Nope. It's had four two-score victories this season ... all in the league.

Utes: I can pull the quotes, they are there.  As for upsets in other regions, St. Thomas was upset in the regional finals last year ... by MIAC rival Bethel.

Repete I wouldn't really call last years Bethel win an upset.  Bethel was 9-1 and their only loss was a 10-6 score to the team they ended up "upsetting".  This years SJF team lost 2 games by big margins and one of them could have been a 70 point loss from what I heard.

[sjfcards]

Bombers I think you should add the 2010 Cardinals, they were just killing people for 7 weeks and then crapped the bed twice in the final 3 weeks including a mind numbing loss to Springfield to close out the regular season.  I really think that was the 2nd best team they have ever fielded, their lowest offensive point total on the year was 31 points.  If they don't blow the Springfield game they could have made some noise as a Pool C team at 9-1...

I agree with this 100%. I thought last years Fisher team had the horses to go back to a final four before losing to a UMU or UWW again. Those last 3 weeks were just hard to watch. The AU loss was one thing. That is a quality team, playing inspired, and AU was at home. I was at the Springfield game and could not wrap my head around what I was seeing.

This has been touched on but I think the number of schools in upstate NY make it tough for any one team to be really strong at football (on a national level). There is just too many options and too many good football teams. Even some of the lesser teams can pick off good players because the school may be so strong on the academics side. We don't have a UWW or a UMU getting every recruit in the state.

[sjfcards]

Middle: You cherrypicked that quote a bit. I wrote: "the East has no conference as strong top-to-bottom as the WIAC."

Despite UWW's recent dominance, there's tremendous depth under it from a league of teams that is very balanced. Look where UWW's most recent non-Mount losses have come from .... Linfield? Wesley, Mary Hardin Baylor? SJF? Nope. It's had four two-score victories this season ... all in the league.

Utes: I can pull the quotes, they are there.  As for upsets in other regions, St. Thomas was upset in the regional finals last year ... by MIAC rival Bethel.

Repete I wouldn't really call last years Bethel win an upset.  Bethel was 9-1 and their only loss was a 10-6 score to the team they ended up "upsetting".  This years SJF team lost 2 games by big margins and one of them could have been a 70 point loss from what I heard.

Actually 3 losses. When Fisher goes down, they go down in flames.

[Jonny Utah]

Middle: You cherrypicked that quote a bit. I wrote: "the East has no conference as strong top-to-bottom as the WIAC."

Despite UWW's recent dominance, there's tremendous depth under it from a league of teams that is very balanced. Look where UWW's most recent non-Mount losses have come from .... Linfield? Wesley, Mary Hardin Baylor? SJF? Nope. It's had four two-score victories this season ... all in the league.

Utes: I can pull the quotes, they are there.  As for upsets in other regions, St. Thomas was upset in the regional finals last year ... by MIAC rival Bethel.

Repete I wouldn't really call last years Bethel win an upset.  Bethel was 9-1 and their only loss was a 10-6 score to the team they ended up "upsetting".  This years SJF team lost 2 games by big margins and one of them could have been a 70 point loss from what I heard.

Actually 3 losses. When Fisher goes down, they go down in flames.

Right.  And would any of us been suprised if SJF lost to Del Val by 4-5 tds?  Or if they lost to JHU by 2-3 TDS?

[boobyhasgameyo]

Middle: You cherrypicked that quote a bit. I wrote: "the East has no conference as strong top-to-bottom as the WIAC."

Despite UWW's recent dominance, there's tremendous depth under it from a league of teams that is very balanced. Look where UWW's most recent non-Mount losses have come from .... Linfield? Wesley, Mary Hardin Baylor? SJF? Nope. It's had four two-score victories this season ... all in the league.

Utes: I can pull the quotes, they are there.  As for upsets in other regions, St. Thomas was upset in the regional finals last year ... by MIAC rival Bethel.

Repete I wouldn't really call last years Bethel win an upset.  Bethel was 9-1 and their only loss was a 10-6 score to the team they ended up "upsetting".  This years SJF team lost 2 games by big margins and one of them could have been a 70 point loss from what I heard.

Actually 3 losses. When Fisher goes down, they go down in flames.

+K to this...it made me laugh because it's so true.  Fisher goes big or goes home.  They don't seem to believe in nail biters anymore. 

[repete]

OK, upset might have been a bit strong, but it was a 1 vs. 6 matchup as Bethel was the No. 7 team out of the West.

Nonetheless, it augments the other point about balance in the West. Sure, Bethel flamed out against Mount (and reverted to its former playoff self of the earlier part of the decade), but there's a pretty good history of depth in the West with one No. 7 winning the Stagg and another losing on a final-minute FG to mount. Ancient history, I know, but since the initial rise of UMU and later UWW, most of the playoff noise has come from the West. I'm hoping Wesley will be loud this weekend.

[dlippiel]

OK, upset might have been a bit strong, but it was a 1 vs. 6 matchup as Bethel was the No. 7 team out of the West.

Nonetheless, it augments the other point about balance in the West. Sure, Bethel flamed out against Mount (and reverted to its former playoff self of the earlier part of the decade), but there's a pretty good history of depth in the West with one No. 7 winning the Stagg and another losing on a final-minute FG to mount. Ancient history, I know, but since the initial rise of UMU and later UWW, most of the playoff noise has come from the West. I'm hoping Wesley will be loud this weekend.

repete dlip agrees with most of what you have been saying (with the exception of the Bethel reference) about the West as a region. It is most likely the "best" region as far as it's tops teams go, and, their relative (or proven) strength against other regions. Has anyone said anything different? To dlip, SJF would be a very competitive team in the MIAC, not a top team, but a competitive one. Remember, SJF was not even the strongest team in the east.

[Jonny Utah]

OK, upset might have been a bit strong, but it was a 1 vs. 6 matchup as Bethel was the No. 7 team out of the West.

Nonetheless, it augments the other point about balance in the West. Sure, Bethel flamed out against Mount (and reverted to its former playoff self of the earlier part of the decade), but there's a pretty good history of depth in the West with one No. 7 winning the Stagg and another losing on a final-minute FG to mount. Ancient history, I know, but since the initial rise of UMU and later UWW, most of the playoff noise has come from the West. I'm hoping Wesley will be loud this weekend.

repete dlip agrees with most of what you have been saying (with the exception of the Bethel reference) about the West as a region. It is most likely the "best" region as far as it's tops teams go, and, their relative (or proven) strength against other regions. Has anyone said anything different? To dlip, SJF would be a very competitive team in the MIAC, not a top team, but a competitive one. Remember, SJF was not even the strongest team in the east.

Per square mile, the east has the best football in the country.

[repete]

dlip, we're stuck with our own opinions on Bethel or MIAC vs. SJF. I thought UST's MIAC/West sked was called "not that good" here in the buildup to last weekend and at least one other poster concurred. Not trying to dog anybody, but I think the depth of the league gets overlooked.

Utes: Spent a weekend in upstate in October and took in some e8 football. We could not believe the number of small colleges as we toured the area. Nice part of the country too.

[dlippiel]

dlip, we're stuck with out own opinions on Bethel or MIAC vs. SJF. I thought UST's MIAC/West sked was called "not that good" here in the buildup to last weekend and at least one other poster concurred. Not trying to dog anybody, but I think the depth of the league gets overlooked.

Utes: Spent a weekend in upstate in October and took in some e8 football. We could not believe the number of small colleges as we toured the area. Nice part of the country too.

That's right, this goes back aways to the SOS discussion. To dlip, the MIAC is just pretty darn impressive no matter how one looks at it. dlip will take the E8 being rated the fourth best conference in the nation with pride. He just wishes his long lost Liberty league would rise up. One can dream...

[tommiegun]

Per square mile, the east has the best football in the country.

I'd certainly like to see that proven mathematically.

[02 Warhawk]

Per square mile, the east has the best most D3 football programs in the country.

fixed