FB: Empire 8

[Jonny Utah]

  It is prob. not their scheme that is the problem.  It may be the talent.  Their defense is clearly up to the task.  They lack speed on offense and specs.  I remember that jumping out at me in 2009 when i went to IC for  the IC-SJF game.   Their offense seemed pedestrian. 

Now that MUC is successfully recruiting guys out of our area, it does not bode well for NY football.  We already have 10+ D3 schools grabbing at every top player that gives each team a shot at success, so the talent pool only gets smaller. 

I think IC will continue to compete in the E8, and as we beat eachother up every year, they will get their share of late season opportunities to grab an AQ.

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.  They can get players from PA, NJ, NE, and the mid-atlantic that some upstate schools probably won't get.  We can talk about the play calling or offense all we want but d3football comes down to 3 simple things:

1. Talent
1A. Recruiting that Talent
2. Coaching
3. Saterdays

[SJFF82]

  It is prob. not their scheme that is the problem.  It may be the talent.  Their defense is clearly up to the task.  They lack speed on offense and specs.  I remember that jumping out at me in 2009 when i went to IC for  the IC-SJF game.   Their offense seemed pedestrian. 

Now that MUC is successfully recruiting guys out of our area, it does not bode well for NY football.  We already have 10+ D3 schools grabbing at every top player that gives each team a shot at success, so the talent pool only gets smaller. 

I think IC will continue to compete in the E8, and as we beat eachother up every year, they will get their share of late season opportunities to grab an AQ.

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.  They can get players from PA, NJ, NE, and the mid-atlantic that some upstate schools probably won't get.  We can talk about the play calling or offense all we want but d3football comes down to 3 simple things:

1. Talent
1A. Recruiting that Talent
2. Coaching

...and the games on Saterday are just for our entertainment ? 

[Jonny Utah]

  It is prob. not their scheme that is the problem.  It may be the talent.  Their defense is clearly up to the task.  They lack speed on offense and specs.  I remember that jumping out at me in 2009 when i went to IC for  the IC-SJF game.   Their offense seemed pedestrian. 

Now that MUC is successfully recruiting guys out of our area, it does not bode well for NY football.  We already have 10+ D3 schools grabbing at every top player that gives each team a shot at success, so the talent pool only gets smaller. 

I think IC will continue to compete in the E8, and as we beat eachother up every year, they will get their share of late season opportunities to grab an AQ.

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.  They can get players from PA, NJ, NE, and the mid-atlantic that some upstate schools probably won't get.  We can talk about the play calling or offense all we want but d3football comes down to 3 simple things:

1. Talent
1A. Recruiting that Talent
2. Coaching

...and the games on Saterday are just for our entertainment ? 

fixed

[Bombers798891]

  It is prob. not their scheme that is the problem.  It may be the talent.  Their defense is clearly up to the task.  They lack speed on offense and specs.  I remember that jumping out at me in 2009 when i went to IC for  the IC-SJF game.   Their offense seemed pedestrian. 

Now that MUC is successfully recruiting guys out of our area, it does not bode well for NY football.  We already have 10+ D3 schools grabbing at every top player that gives each team a shot at success, so the talent pool only gets smaller. 

I think IC will continue to compete in the E8, and as we beat eachother up every year, they will get their share of late season opportunities to grab an AQ.

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.  They can get players from PA, NJ, NE, and the mid-atlantic that some upstate schools probably won't get.  We can talk about the play calling or offense all we want but d3football comes down to 3 simple things:

1. Talent
1A. Recruiting that Talent
2. Coaching
3. Saterdays

They're already doing this quite well. By my count, the 2011  roster had 43 total players from NJ, NE, and PA. 18 from New Jersey, 17 from the New England area (NH, ME, MA, VT, CT) and 8 from PA.

Looking at the great 2008 team: 39 total. 24 from New England, 8 from PA, 7 from Jersey

The 2004 team that, in my view, was Welch's best: (Note that this may not have included all players, as players with no number, who were on the 2008 and 2011 rosters, we absent here) 25 total. 12 from PA, 7 from NE, 6 from NJ

Even factoring in the missing players for 2004, you're not going to be much higher than the 2011

So really, the team is still getting players from those states, in fact, they're probably doing better at that than some of Welch's best teams. (I wish I had 2001/2003 rosters). 

I mean, it's not like there isn't in-state talent. The 2004 team for example, had the following in-state players:

WR Jeff Welch (50-645-6)
WR Justin Esposito (40-640-5)
RB Alex Baez (109-499-1)
CB Joe Napoleone (6 INT's)
LB Jose Colon (90 Tkls, 20 TFL, 5 sacks)
LB Dustin Ross (93 Tkls, 17 TFL, 5 sacks)
FB Dan Ross
DT Alex Shafiro (58 Tkls, 20 TFL, 7 sacks, 2nd team D3 football AA)
WR/KR Kelly Gordon (averaged 30 yards a kick return)
TE Vince Dargush (42-476-7, 1st team D3 Football AA)
Starting OG Joe Scalice (multiple first team all conference player, made a d3football.com team at HM)
Starting OT Brett Monnat
Starting C Mike D'Amico

(14 of the 22 starters the Bombers had in Cortaca that year were NY guys)

Sure, you had Felliceti and Donovan from out of state, but the in-state talent alone would have beaten this year's squad by 14 points, and they would have used a 3rd-string QB to do it. You could put those players with nameless bench players, and they'd have gone better than 4-6. Now sure, today the in-state talent may be more dry than it was, and there may be more competition, but the struggles the team are facing isn't about where the talent is coming from. It's the fact that the players are not good enough, regardless of where they're from.

[Jonny Utah]

  It is prob. not their scheme that is the problem.  It may be the talent.  Their defense is clearly up to the task.  They lack speed on offense and specs.  I remember that jumping out at me in 2009 when i went to IC for  the IC-SJF game.   Their offense seemed pedestrian. 

Now that MUC is successfully recruiting guys out of our area, it does not bode well for NY football.  We already have 10+ D3 schools grabbing at every top player that gives each team a shot at success, so the talent pool only gets smaller. 

I think IC will continue to compete in the E8, and as we beat eachother up every year, they will get their share of late season opportunities to grab an AQ.

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.  They can get players from PA, NJ, NE, and the mid-atlantic that some upstate schools probably won't get.  We can talk about the play calling or offense all we want but d3football comes down to 3 simple things:

1. Talent
1A. Recruiting that Talent
2. Coaching
3. Saterdays

They're already doing this quite well. By my count, the 2011  roster had 43 total players from NJ, NE, and PA. 18 from New Jersey, 17 from the New England area (NH, ME, MA, VT, CT) and 8 from PA.

Looking at the great 2008 team: 39 total. 24 from New England, 8 from PA, 7 from Jersey

The 2004 team that, in my view, was Welch's best: (Note that this may not have included all players, as players with no number, who were on the 2008 and 2011 rosters, we absent here) 25 total. 12 from PA, 7 from NE, 6 from NJ

Even factoring in the missing players for 2004, you're not going to be much higher than the 2011

So really, the team is still getting players from those states, in fact, they're probably doing better at that than some of Welch's best teams. (I wish I had 2001/2003 rosters). 

I mean, it's not like there isn't in-state talent. The 2004 team for example, had the following in-state players:

WR Jeff Welch (50-645-6)
WR Justin Esposito (40-640-5)
RB Alex Baez (109-499-1)
CB Joe Napoleone (6 INT's)
LB Jose Colon (90 Tkls, 20 TFL, 5 sacks)
LB Dustin Ross (93 Tkls, 17 TFL, 5 sacks)
FB Dan Ross
DT Alex Shafiro (58 Tkls, 20 TFL, 7 sacks, 2nd team D3 football AA)
WR/KR Kelly Gordon (averaged 30 yards a kick return)
TE Vince Dargush (42-476-7, 1st team D3 Football AA)
Starting OG Joe Scalice (multiple first team all conference player, made a d3football.com team at HM)
Starting OT Brett Monnat
Starting C Mike D'Amico

(14 of the 22 starters the Bombers had in Cortaca that year were NY guys)

Sure, you had Felliceti and Donovan from out of state, but the in-state talent alone would have beaten this year's squad by 14 points, and they would have used a 3rd-string QB to do it. You could put those players with nameless bench players, and they'd have gone better than 4-6. Now sure, today the in-state talent may be more dry than it was, and there may be more competition, but the struggles the team are facing isn't about where the talent is coming from. It's the fact that the players are not good enough, regardless of where they're from.

Agreed.  75% of Ithacas talent has to come from New York, and especially upstate which seems to have a lot of diamonds in the rough or HS players who really fly under the radar.  There are tons of small upstate schools with kids who get overlooked.  Ithaca (and any upstate school) has to be the best in getting these kids.

[sjfcards]

Merry Christmas to all the E8 posters! I hope everyone enjoys the holiday.

[middlerelief]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

I missed the earlier 999,999 - what exactly are you claiming IC's "recruiting advantage" is that other programs would not have?

[Jonny Utah]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

I missed the earlier 999,999 - what exactly are you claiming IC's "recruiting advantage" is that other programs would not have?

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

[Upstate]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

I missed the earlier 999,999 - what exactly are you claiming IC's "recruiting advantage" is that other programs would not have?

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

Yeah that New England area is a real hotbed of talent...

[Jonny Utah]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

I missed the earlier 999,999 - what exactly are you claiming IC's "recruiting advantage" is that other programs would not have?

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

Yeah that New England area is a real hotbed of talent...

Although it isn't PA, OH or Fla, there still is a lot of decent football in NE, especially CT and some of the prep schools.  There are also over 50 d1-d3 football programs in New England.  It was no coincidence that Jim Butterfield used to travel to the prep-private schools in New England to find talent.  You would be foolish not to.

[AUPepBand]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

I missed the earlier 999,999 - what exactly are you claiming IC's "recruiting advantage" is that other programs would not have?

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

Utes is spot on. Alfred actually gets a number of students from New England, but not so many student-athletes.
The difference? Parents.

Parents of student-athletes want their kids close enough to be able to attend their games and continue to enjoy their kids' athletic careers without costing both time and money in travel.

Parents of non-athletic students are okay with distance so long as they can catch any major events in their children's lives such as Senior Art Show or Symphonic Band concert, etc.

Case in point, when AU played its ECAC Bowl game at Bridgewater, MA, Pep was able to muster THREE AU grads to comprise the Pep Band, two of whom Pep knows are Massachusetts natives. There are 0 football players from MA on the roster....only out-of-state players include 8 from PA, 2 from NJ and 1 from CA.

Another case in point....at a mixer for the library's student workers, Pep noticed three student workers standing next to each other. Neither of them knew the others. Pep knew them all and knowing from whence they all came, announced, "Standing right here before us is the 'Maine Event.'" All three were from the state of Maine. None of them were student-athletes, however.

On Saxon Warriors!

[middlerelief]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

and perhaps at one time it was true. I"m always surprised at the # of non-local kids I see on the rosters of both SJF and the team they are playing (available in the programs handed out at the games).

Outside of the music program - there isn't any real cache to Ithaca College, not in today's Occupy Wall Street climate.  It just ins't there at a time when the world is starting to scrutinize and question the value that college educations provide for $ spend.  Would not surprise me to see greater #s migrate back to state schools as the pricing on private colleges continue to rise out of the reach of many football familes. 

[Cardinal Pride]

IC's communications programs are top of the line as well.

[boobyhasgameyo]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

and perhaps at one time it was true. I"m always surprised at the # of non-local kids I see on the rosters of both SJF and the team they are playing (available in the programs handed out at the games).

Outside of the music program - there isn't any real cache to Ithaca College, not in today's Occupy Wall Street climate.  It just ins't there at a time when the world is starting to scrutinize and question the value that college educations provide for $ spend.  Would not surprise me to see greater #s migrate back to state schools as the pricing on private colleges continue to rise out of the reach of many football familes.

Maybe you mean outside of Western New York when you say that because I looked at the roster and I found one from Florida and one from Ohio.  That's it as far as out of staters on the team.  I'd say Fisher's team is 60% comprised of the Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse area, 35% the rest of New York state, 5% out of state.  I feel pretty good about those completely random percentages I tossed out there 

[Jonny Utah]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

and perhaps at one time it was true. I"m always surprised at the # of non-local kids I see on the rosters of both SJF and the team they are playing (available in the programs handed out at the games).

Outside of the music program - there isn't any real cache to Ithaca College, not in today's Occupy Wall Street climate.  It just ins't there at a time when the world is starting to scrutinize and question the value that college educations provide for $ spend.  Would not surprise me to see greater #s migrate back to state schools as the pricing on private colleges continue to rise out of the reach of many football familes.

I'm not sure where you get your info middle, but over half the students that go to Ithaca are non residents of New York (42% of undergraduates were from New York in 2010 and it was 47% in 2005).  90% of SJF undergraduates are from New York State this year.  You will also find that schools like SJF and Ithaca are still cheaper than schools like UMass, Albany or Uconn for students that need aid to go to school.

As Cardnial Pride mentions, the IC communications prorgam gets a lot of national interest, as does their music, excercise science and PT programs as well.  This doesn't mean Ithaca is the better school, but it does mean that Ithaca will have a better chance of landing out of state football talent.  I'm just saying they should use that to their advantage more.