FB: Empire 8

[middlerelief]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

and perhaps at one time it was true. I"m always surprised at the # of non-local kids I see on the rosters of both SJF and the team they are playing (available in the programs handed out at the games).

Outside of the music program - there isn't any real cache to Ithaca College, not in today's Occupy Wall Street climate.  It just ins't there at a time when the world is starting to scrutinize and question the value that college educations provide for $ spend.  Would not surprise me to see greater #s migrate back to state schools as the pricing on private colleges continue to rise out of the reach of many football familes.

I'm not sure where you get your info middle, but over half the students that go to Ithaca are non residents of New York (42% of undergraduates were from New York in 2010 and it was 47% in 2005).  90% of SJF undergraduates are from New York State this year.  You will also find that schools like SJF and Ithaca are still cheaper than schools like UMass, Albany or Uconn for students that need aid to go to school.

As Cardnial Pride mentions, the IC communications prorgam gets a lot of national interest, as does their music, excercise science and PT programs as well.  This doesn't mean Ithaca is the better school, but it does mean that Ithaca will have a better chance of landing out of state football talent.  I'm just saying they should use that to their advantage more.

I already said where - I said I'm always surprised at the geographic diversity of where teams pull kids from as listed on the back of a program. Every team pulls players from various markets states.

Not knocking IC as an alleged academic instituion - it is going to be a challenge a lot of private schools face in the future in this climate - state schools may see a resurgence in their talent pool due to costs and a recognition that the $$ spent doesn't add incremental value to job prospects.

You mention the top communications program - it underscores my point. It was the major recently cited by U.S. News as the least employable major next to poly sci.

[Cardinal Pride]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

and perhaps at one time it was true. I"m always surprised at the # of non-local kids I see on the rosters of both SJF and the team they are playing (available in the programs handed out at the games).

Outside of the music program - there isn't any real cache to Ithaca College, not in today's Occupy Wall Street climate.  It just ins't there at a time when the world is starting to scrutinize and question the value that college educations provide for $ spend.  Would not surprise me to see greater #s migrate back to state schools as the pricing on private colleges continue to rise out of the reach of many football familes.

I'm not sure where you get your info middle, but over half the students that go to Ithaca are non residents of New York (42% of undergraduates were from New York in 2010 and it was 47% in 2005).  90% of SJF undergraduates are from New York State this year.  You will also find that schools like SJF and Ithaca are still cheaper than schools like UMass, Albany or Uconn for students that need aid to go to school.

As Cardnial Pride mentions, the IC communications prorgam gets a lot of national interest, as does their music, excercise science and PT programs as well.  This doesn't mean Ithaca is the better school, but it does mean that Ithaca will have a better chance of landing out of state football talent.  I'm just saying they should use that to their advantage more.

I already said where - I said I'm always surprised at the geographic diversity of where teams pull kids from as listed on the back of a program. Every team pulls players from various markets states.

Not knocking IC as an alleged academic instituion - it is going to be a challenge a lot of private schools face in the future in this climate - state schools may see a resurgence in their talent pool due to costs and a recognition that the $$ spent doesn't add incremental value to job prospects.

You mention the top communications program - it underscores my point. It was the major recently cited by U.S. News as the least employable major next to poly sci.

I don't believe that communications being considered least employable is accurate,  it is more of a numbers thing.  Communications is the 7th most popular degree being sought with an unemployement rate of 6.3%.  Business management is  #1  with a 6% unemployment rate.  The fact that these degrees are so popular and so many kids possess them it is bound to inflate the unemployment numbers.  I guess what I am trying to demonstrate is if  communications has 100 graduates and 93.7 of them find jobs in their field it is more impressive than 17.4 out of 20 AG Economic graduates getting jobs.  There are more employment opportunities in communications.
There are many variables to all ranking systems.
   




http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/documents/NILF1111/#term=

[Jonny Utah]

I've said it a million times.  Ithaca needs to use their recruiting advangage.

Only some programs.  Kids from Boston aren't going to Cortland, SJF or Brockport, but they will go to Ithaca, Hobart and Union.  Even Alfred is going to have a tough time getting kids that far away.

and perhaps at one time it was true. I"m always surprised at the # of non-local kids I see on the rosters of both SJF and the team they are playing (available in the programs handed out at the games).

Outside of the music program - there isn't any real cache to Ithaca College, not in today's Occupy Wall Street climate.  It just ins't there at a time when the world is starting to scrutinize and question the value that college educations provide for $ spend.  Would not surprise me to see greater #s migrate back to state schools as the pricing on private colleges continue to rise out of the reach of many football familes.

I'm not sure where you get your info middle, but over half the students that go to Ithaca are non residents of New York (42% of undergraduates were from New York in 2010 and it was 47% in 2005).  90% of SJF undergraduates are from New York State this year.  You will also find that schools like SJF and Ithaca are still cheaper than schools like UMass, Albany or Uconn for students that need aid to go to school.

As Cardnial Pride mentions, the IC communications prorgam gets a lot of national interest, as does their music, excercise science and PT programs as well.  This doesn't mean Ithaca is the better school, but it does mean that Ithaca will have a better chance of landing out of state football talent.  I'm just saying they should use that to their advantage more.

I already said where - I said I'm always surprised at the geographic diversity of where teams pull kids from as listed on the back of a program. Every team pulls players from various markets states.

Not knocking IC as an alleged academic instituion - it is going to be a challenge a lot of private schools face in the future in this climate - state schools may see a resurgence in their talent pool due to costs and a recognition that the $$ spent doesn't add incremental value to job prospects.

You mention the top communications program - it underscores my point. It was the major recently cited by U.S. News as the least employable major next to poly sci.

I was responding to your "and perhaps at one time it was true" comment.  Ithaca is getting more and more out of state students every year (32 from my count on this years roster).  I just think this needs to be a point of emphasis.

But the in state talent has to be first and formost.  I'm thinking it is much easier to send a bunch of coaches to Friday night games across upstate to find those hidden gems that might get overlooked.

[Knightstalker]

Face the fact that a Bachelors degree is what a high school diploma was 30 years ago.  It is stepping stone to the entry level job.  You now need a college diploma to become a bank teller in most banks, it used to be you needed a hs diploma for those jobs.  It really does not matter what your major is, it just gets your foot in the door.  You now need at least your Masters to start really getting ahead.  I realize this is a generalization but it is mostly accurate.

[Jonny Utah]

Face the fact that a Bachelors degree is what a high school diploma was 30 years ago.  It is stepping stone to the entry level job.  You now need a college diploma to become a bank teller in most banks, it used to be you needed a hs diploma for those jobs.  It really does not matter what your major is, it just gets your foot in the door.  You now need at least your Masters to start really getting ahead.  I realize this is a generalization but it is mostly accurate.

KS I think the masters degree is the most usless thing out there. 

[Knightstalker]

Johnny, I am basing it on the job search I have been on for the last year since I have been unemployed.  You may think the Masters degree is the most useless thing out there but HR managers think differently. 

I happen to think half the people going to college should not be in college at all, they would be better served by trade schools.  Actually many of these kids should have been steered towards technical high schools.  When I went to hs in the 70's we have a fairly even breakdown of kids in college prep, kids in the business prep courses, kids in the ag track and kids that either went full time to the tech hs or were half-day students at the tech HS.

[Jonny Utah]

Johnny, I am basing it on the job search I have been on for the last year since I have been unemployed.  You may think the Masters degree is the most useless thing out there but HR managers think differently. 

I happen to think half the people going to college should not be in college at all, they would be better served by trade schools.  Actually many of these kids should have been steered towards technical high schools.  When I went to hs in the 70's we have a fairly even breakdown of kids in college prep, kids in the business prep courses, kids in the ag track and kids that either went full time to the tech hs or were half-day students at the tech HS.

Yea I guess it all depends on what you want to do.  I used to teach at a high school that would not hire a new teacher unless they went to an IVY/Nescac school and had a masters from a top 20 education school (for subjects like English/History/Science), and were under the age of 25.  Some student teachers could get jobs because the dept heads knew what they were getting, but in general the school wouldn't even look at applications from teachers without the above criteria.

[Knightstalker]

Johnny, I am basing it on the job search I have been on for the last year since I have been unemployed.  You may think the Masters degree is the most useless thing out there but HR managers think differently. 

I happen to think half the people going to college should not be in college at all, they would be better served by trade schools.  Actually many of these kids should have been steered towards technical high schools.  When I went to hs in the 70's we have a fairly even breakdown of kids in college prep, kids in the business prep courses, kids in the ag track and kids that either went full time to the tech hs or were half-day students at the tech HS.

Yea I guess it all depends on what you want to do.  I used to teach at a high school that would not hire a new teacher unless they went to an IVY/Nescac school and had a masters from a top 20 education school (for subjects like English/History/Science), and were under the age of 25.  Some student teachers could get jobs because the dept heads knew what they were getting, but in general the school wouldn't even look at applications from teachers without the above criteria.

I work IT, specifically EDI and most jobs want either an MBA, MIS or professional equivalency.  I don't even have a degree in computer, I have went to college for music and discovered a talent for IT work.  I am competing against people with masters degrees and from India and China who work for a fraction of what I can afford.  Which explains why I have been doing grounds maintenance and handy-man work to make ends meet.  Not that I am really complaining, I enjoy working outside and with my hands.  The problem with this is I am competing with other people in the same boat as me.  Oh well we do what we can and make the best of it.  I have a nice house that I only have to pay the taxes on and a family I love and a good dog.  Overall life is good.

[Jonny Utah]

Johnny, I am basing it on the job search I have been on for the last year since I have been unemployed.  You may think the Masters degree is the most useless thing out there but HR managers think differently. 

I happen to think half the people going to college should not be in college at all, they would be better served by trade schools.  Actually many of these kids should have been steered towards technical high schools.  When I went to hs in the 70's we have a fairly even breakdown of kids in college prep, kids in the business prep courses, kids in the ag track and kids that either went full time to the tech hs or were half-day students at the tech HS.

Yea I guess it all depends on what you want to do.  I used to teach at a high school that would not hire a new teacher unless they went to an IVY/Nescac school and had a masters from a top 20 education school (for subjects like English/History/Science), and were under the age of 25.  Some student teachers could get jobs because the dept heads knew what they were getting, but in general the school wouldn't even look at applications from teachers without the above criteria.

I work IT, specifically EDI and most jobs want either an MBA, MIS or professional equivalency.  I don't even have a degree in computer, I have went to college for music and discovered a talent for IT work.  I am competing against people with masters degrees and from India and China who work for a fraction of what I can afford.  Which explains why I have been doing grounds maintenance and handy-man work to make ends meet.  Not that I am really complaining, I enjoy working outside and with my hands.  The problem with this is I am competing with other people in the same boat as me.  Oh well we do what we can and make the best of it.  I have a nice house that I only have to pay the taxes on and a family I love and a good dog.  Overall life is good.

I guess any degree is what you make out of it.  Some colleges have tremendous resources that students can take advantage of (internships, professors that care and have connections, library resources, job fairs, alumni groups etc).  Some colleges have that name recogonition, but you pretty much have to prove yourself for your first couple years out of the gate.  Younger people can afford those low paying jobs (by living with their parents), and can try to prove themselves at entry level positions and work their way up.

I shouldn't have said masters degrees are usless, but like undergraduate degrees, there are a lot of cash cow programs that can give you masters in 12-18 months with the right amount of cash.  In my experience the grad classes are a lot easier than undergrad classes (granted I've only taken them in education, criminal justice administration and some random history classes).  The Umass system has a great online program where you can get degrees without ever going to a class.  I've taken a few and actually learned a lot. 

[Bombers798891]

Ithaca's got a number of top programs, as Johnny listed. The real question is though, are the top football players interested in them?

The question of cost is a real one. Would I pay 50 grand a year for some of Ithaca's programs? Sure, the comm/music/PT schools. But I can understand the hesitancy to do it for others. And how many football players are going to have the time to commit to all the out of class stuff you need to do in those majors? There's lots of rehearsal time in music, and if you're in the comm school and not doing stuff with the radio/tv/newspapers or the internship programs, you're not going to get the most out of them.

For example, IC's business school, while recently accredited, isn't an elite program. So if business is a popular football major (and I'm not saying it is), why would you spend 50 grand to just go to an okay program when you can go to an equal or better one for much less?

The fact that Communications as a whole is "unemployable" or whatever might be hurting IC, but those numbers can be easily influenced by high number of kids going to mediocre to bad programs and then not getting the education they need to get the good jobs. Getting a communications degree from Ithaca, especially if you take advantage of the things they offer outside the classroom (like the New York/LA internship programs, or the fact that they've got a great student-run TV/Radio stations) is a lot different than going to a mediocre school and just taking four years of theory courses

[Jonny Utah]

Ithaca's got a number of top programs, as Johnny listed. The real question is though, are the top football players interested in them?

The question of cost is a real one. Would I pay 50 grand a year for some of Ithaca's programs? Sure, the comm/music/PT schools. But I can understand the hesitancy to do it for others. And how many football players are going to have the time to commit to all the out of class stuff you need to do in those majors? There's lots of rehearsal time in music, and if you're in the comm school and not doing stuff with the radio/tv/newspapers or the internship programs, you're not going to get the most out of them.

For example, IC's business school, while recently accredited, isn't an elite program. So if business is a popular football major (and I'm not saying it is), why would you spend 50 grand to just go to an okay program when you can go to an equal or better one for much less?

The fact that Communications as a whole is "unemployable" or whatever might be hurting IC, but those numbers can be easily influenced by high number of kids going to mediocre to bad programs and then not getting the education they need to get the good jobs. Getting a communications degree from Ithaca, especially if you take advantage of the things they offer outside the classroom (like the New York/LA internship programs, or the fact that they've got a great student-run TV/Radio stations) is a lot different than going to a mediocre school and just taking four years of theory courses

Interestingly enough, the Phys Ed. director for the school I worked at went to Springfield and had a masters from Ithaca and PHD from UMass for Education.  Anyone that had a phys. ed degree from Ithaca or Springfield could get a job right out of college where kids from other schools would not have been looked at without student teaching or experience from another school district.  Do you spend 50k on a phys ed degree though?  And how many kids actually spend 50K and how many of those parents simply write a check and think nothing of it?

I would also think playing a sport at Ithaca and going into sports communications would be a bonus.  I also forget that subjects like advertising, journalism, marketing etc can fall under the communications school.

[dlippiel]

Good conversatiom fellas. To dlip, his masters experience was more beneficial and challenging than his undergrad. Maybe part of the reason was because dlip was working fulltime while getting it, but still, it made dlip a better professional than he was before. KS seems like he is on to something. That undergrad degree just does not seem to carry close to the weight it once did.

[AUPepBand]

I guess any degree is what you make out of it.  Some colleges have tremendous resources that students can take advantage of (internships, professors that care and have connections, library resources, job fairs, alumni groups etc).  Some colleges have that name recogonition, but you pretty much have to prove yourself for your first couple years out of the gate.  Younger people can afford those low paying jobs (by living with their parents), and can try to prove themselves at entry level positions and work their way up.

I shouldn't have said masters degrees are usless, but like undergraduate degrees, there are a lot of cash cow programs that can give you masters in 12-18 months with the right amount of cash.  In my experience the grad classes are a lot easier than undergrad classes (granted I've only taken them in education, criminal justice administration and some random history classes).  The Umass system has a great online program where you can get degrees without ever going to a class.  I've taken a few and actually learned a lot.

Pep has milked his A.A.S. degree in journalism from Morrisville College for all it's worth. Pep's folks paid the first three semesters, Pep paid for the final semester. No need for student loans when one is paying $2000 to $3000 per year. Pep has a decent return on his modest investment. Heck, right out of college with his A.A.S. degree, Pep landed an upper management position with a century-old newspaper. 

As for jobs in the communications field, with the glut of information sources, big dailies are hurting, but community newspapers are thriving.

On Saxon Warriors and Happy New Year to all!

[fisheralum91]

Pep,
Thank you for that.
I work in higher ed, more to the point at an Associate Degree Granting College, and with a placement rate in the mid 90s i think that it is not true that a hs diploma = a BA or BS, but more near an AAS or AOS.....
Happy new year all!

[Knightstalker]

Pep,
Thank you for that.
I work in higher ed, more to the point at an Associate Degree Granting College, and with a placement rate in the mid 90s i think that it is not true that a hs diploma = a BA or BS, but more near an AAS or AOS.....
Happy new year all!

91  I am speaking from personal experience of a 50 year old who graduated hs in 80.  I see the requirements now for jobs that used to only require a HS diploma now require at least a Bachelors.  That indicates that a bachelors now is equal to my hs diploma.  Are you actually looking at the wanted ads, on the online job sites etc.  I have been looking for work for a year now and I think I know what I am seeing.