FB: Empire 8

[AlfredSaxon8]

Far too long!!! Well over a year for sure, maybe longer. Its a tough commute from Arizona to NY and unfortunetly Mayberry still doesnt have their own airport for some reason. Got to see Pecoraro get married and met up with Sarge too. But we are hoping to make it up to NY at somepoint soon.

Hope all is well in Mayberry and looking forward to seeing your posts about the incoming freshman.

Ive gotten to play in some law enforcement based flag football tourneys which is always nice. Actually played with a guy that was a starter on the OL for Cortland and another guy from Buff State. Even busted out the old purple and gold one day which was entertaining.

But im actually going to try and stay up with the boards this season and post consistently.

Anyways, hope all is well to those on the boards!! Go Saxons!!

Well, since you mentioned the "incoming freshmen," as a matter of fact, AU has just released that Coach Murray has a group of 90 recruits coming to Mayberry in mid-August.

A couple of the recruits merit mention:

First of all, Pep was pleased to see one Maleke Fuentes (5-6, 160), running back/defensive back from Olean (NY) High School (New York State, Section VI) on the list. Fuentes is the younger brother of AU's Julio Fuentes and was named a Section VI Class B South First Team all-star and a Big 30 all-star as a senior in 2011. Fisher fans may want to forget how Julio danced through the Cardinal defense back in 2005 when the Saxons upset SJFC at Growney, 13-7. AU fans may want to forget how Julio's promising career at AU came to a screeching halt in the 2006 season opener against Thiel. (But we won't forget Julio.)

Second, is one Kirby DarDar Jr. (6-2, 175), wide receiver from Christian Brothers Academy in Syracuse (New York State, Section III). DarDar, son of former Syracuse University running back and Miami Dolphins wide receiver Kirby DarDar, was a Section III Class AA and league all-star as a senior last fall. Kaz00, a long-time 'Phin Fan (along with Pep Jr.), is particularly pleased with that recruit.

Get the fight song ready!

Wow. Im so glad to hear jewels brother is going to AU. He was a great football player and a great friend. Had the pleasure of rooming with him on away trips. He was a true football fanatic.

[AUPepBand]

Well, since you mentioned the "incoming freshmen," as a matter of fact, AU has just released that Coach Murray has a group of 90 recruits coming to Mayberry in mid-August.

A couple of the recruits merit mention:

First of all, Pep was pleased to see one Maleke Fuentes (5-6, 160), running back/defensive back from Olean (NY) High School (New York State, Section VI) on the list. Fuentes is the younger brother of AU's Julio Fuentes and was named a Section VI Class B South First Team all-star and a Big 30 all-star as a senior in 2011. Fisher fans may want to forget how Julio danced through the Cardinal defense back in 2005 when the Saxons upset SJFC at Growney, 13-7. AU fans may want to forget how Julio's promising career at AU came to a screeching halt in the 2006 season opener against Thiel. (But we won't forget Julio.)

Second, is one Kirby DarDar Jr. (6-2, 175), wide receiver from Christian Brothers Academy in Syracuse (New York State, Section III). DarDar, son of former Syracuse University running back and Miami Dolphins wide receiver Kirby DarDar, was a Section III Class AA and league all-star as a senior last fall. Kaz00, a long-time 'Phin Fan (along with Pep Jr.), is particularly pleased with that recruit.

Get the fight song ready!

Wow. Im so glad to hear jewels brother is going to AU. He was a great football player and a great friend. Had the pleasure of rooming with him on away trips. He was a true football fanatic.
[/quote]

Pep had the privilege of chatting with Julio since Pep heard of his brother's plans to attend AU. He said he will likely be getting to some games this year! Didn't know you had roomed with him...he packed more athlete per inch of stature than anyone Pep has ever met. Just an incredible competitor and great guy. Pep often thought it would be cool if the band could pull off "Me and Julio down by the (schoolyard) goal line" for a song after one of his runs but not all of Pep's thoughts come to fruition (which is probably a good thing). 

[sjfcards]

Have any Ithaca players eve had an nfl tryout ,look or interest in the last 20-30 years?

With the national prominence that Bomber football has had for so long, I'd imagine that quite a few Ithaca players were given a look over the past 20-30 years.  Perhaps one of our Ithaca posters could provide some names.

Dan Juvan got a tryout with the Buffalo Bills in 2009.

This still blows my mind. Juvan had the weirdest career I can recall. Cannon for an arm, great junior season. But battled some hand injury for most of 2008. Never won a tough road game in his career. Probably the most physically gifted IC quarterback ever, yet, the team never won an NCAA playoff game with him—which was not his fault, but I just keep thinking, how do they have that kind of ability for three years and never get enough around him to win more than nine games in a season?

He honestly never won a road game? I recall us beating him at Merril in 08 but didnt realize he had such a poor (to say the least) record on the road. When he was on, he was unstoppable. I remember the AU game in 07 where he was spot-on. Then a year later he missed open receivers all over the place.

Sounds like he could fit right in with the Cowboys and a certain #9...

That bolded part was the key phrase. Here's the breakdown

EDIT: Sorry, I missed your second post. Don't want to delete this whole thing, but wanted you to know I wasn't completely oblivious

2006-
Beat: 4-6 Brockport, 2-8 Norwich
Lost to: 12-2 Fisher, 8-3 Alfred, 9-2 Cortland

2007-
Beat: 3-7 Lycoming, 4-6 Springfield, 3-7 Utica
Lost to: 8-3 Hartwick, Mount

2008-
Beat: 3-7 King's, 2-8 Norwich
Lost to: 7-4 Fisher
Incomplete: 7-4 Alfred, where he only played half the game

Were all these losses his fault? No. The 2007 Wick game he played well in. Same with Mount, in my view. Many of the games, the defense was bad in as well. No quarterback is an island, right? Maybe they beat Alfred in 2008 with him. They probably beat Cortland the next week, considering Alex Smith turned the ball over 17 times in that game. Who knows, if he's healthy, maybe they beat Curry and Cortland again, and it's all looked at differently. And obviously, road games against good teams are, by their definition, going to be hard to win.

But again, this was a guy with, apparently, at least something that appealed to a NFL team enough for him to at least get a tryout. And the best road win was what, 4-6 Springfield? No playoff wins?

Dan was a very good quarterback, don't get me wrong. But there was so much potential in the 2006-2008 teams that just never got realized, it's a shame

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a group of guys after a Fisher/Ithaca game at Fisher. I can't remember the year, but IC, and Juvan in particular, started lights out. They were up 10-0 at halftime, and had control of the game. Fisher scored on the first drive of the second half on a long Run from Robby, Juvan fumbled on the next play, and one play later fisher was up 14-10 (and off to the races.

After the game the group I was watching with had a long talk about how Juvan was so in control over one half, and so out of it in the second. He just disappeared. Not sure what caused it, because that guy scared me to death as a Fisher fan, but he is a bit of an odd case.

[Bombers798891]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a group of guys after a Fisher/Ithaca game at Fisher. I can't remember the year, but IC, and Juvan in particular, started lights out. They were up 10-0 at halftime, and had control of the game. Fisher scored on the first drive of the second half on a long Run from Robby, Juvan fumbled on the next play, and one play later fisher was up 14-10 (and off to the races.

After the game the group I was watching with had a long talk about how Juvan was so in control over one half, and so out of it in the second. He just disappeared. Not sure what caused it, because that guy scared me to death as a Fisher fan, but he is a bit of an odd case.

The 2006 game...yeah, that game was pretty much a blueprint for the last six years. But at least that Fisher team was an all-time great team (and that Ithaca team just okay.) 2008 was much worse, in my view

[sjfcards]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a group of guys after a Fisher/Ithaca game at Fisher. I can't remember the year, but IC, and Juvan in particular, started lights out. They were up 10-0 at halftime, and had control of the game. Fisher scored on the first drive of the second half on a long Run from Robby, Juvan fumbled on the next play, and one play later fisher was up 14-10 (and off to the races.

After the game the group I was watching with had a long talk about how Juvan was so in control over one half, and so out of it in the second. He just disappeared. Not sure what caused it, because that guy scared me to death as a Fisher fan, but he is a bit of an odd case.

The 2006 game...yeah, that game was pretty much a blueprint for the last six years. But at least that Fisher team was an all-time great team (and that Ithaca team just okay.) 2008 was much worse, in my view

I remember the 08 game being an unexpected outcome, especially with Fisher struggling with U of R the week before, and Losing to Hartwick the next week. From my memory, I remember thinking that Fisher had figured it out after the IC cpgame and they were on their way to another strong season, but having seen it all unfold I think IC was a better team in 08, and thy result was probably the worst for IC in this stretch against Fisher.

[sjfcards]

Just wondering what people's thoughts in what Penn State deserves as punishment? We will know what it is soon enough, but I am interested what the consenus is here.

[Bombers798891]

Just wondering what people's thoughts in what Penn State deserves as punishment? We will know what it is soon enough, but I am interested what the consenus is here.

I know a lot of people wanted the Death Penalty, but I don't think that was ever really on the table (despite what the NCAA said). The ripple effect on the rest of the conference and other programs would be too great, especially were it to be for this season, which starts in something like six weeks. I was expecting a five-year ban (since four had been done) and maybe double the scholarships. Did not see the fine coming.

The money angle is very interesting to me. Adding the NCAA hit to the Conference's hit, we're up to $73 million already, and the Department of Justice/Education haven't gotten involved yet, nor have the civil suits started. My question is, what's this mean for the University as a whole financially? If we start getting into nine figures, I can't imagine all that cost being absorbed by the athletic department (although maybe they can). Does this get passed along as higher tuition? No raises for faculty/staff? When we talk about "Not punishing those who didn't do anything wrong" we're usually referring to the football players who lose out on postseason play or whatever. What kind of impact might this have on everyone else who's not in the athletic department?

As far as the scholarships and bowl bans, IDK, I always feel like how we hear that this will decimate a program and they'll never be able to get recruits. Obviously, PSU is already feeling the effects, but I just don't think it's going to turn them into, say, Indiana. Yes, they'll struggle, but I just don't believe we're looking at Penn State being a bottom-feeder for a couple of decades.

The wins? Meh. To the PSU fans, we'll probably hear a lot of "joe Paterno still holds the record in my book" (In fact, I have heard that already). Florida State will make a big deal out of it, but honestly, these sorts of symbolic gestures just ring hollow to me.

Pretty heavy hit. Worse than the death penalty, as many have said? I guess. It's tough to really know

[pg04]

I think it's definitely comparable to a "death penalty" because the effects will not only be the next 4 years, but the lack of scholarships will hurt for the next 6-8 years. They were only barely a top 25 program to begin with (in my opinion) and now without the postseason ban and the chance for players to leave, it could be very grim. One thing people aren't necessarily talking about is that without the chance of postseason, ticket sales are going to be reduced. Many of the fair-weather (and let's be honest, a lot of the students that show up at the game are fair-weather) will no longer show up. Given the fine, the financial repercussions on the students could be great.

[Bombers798891]

One thing people aren't necessarily talking about is that without the chance of postseason, ticket sales are going to be reduced. Many of the fair-weather (and let's be honest, a lot of the students that show up at the game are fair-weather) will no longer show up

I don't think the bowl ban is the issue with attendance. I think the scholarship reductions/transfers is just going to make the program mediocre, and losing programs don't draw well usually.

You know what I wonder though? If an "Us against Them" culture has developed. Penn State's always had a weirdly insular feel to it, and now I can't help but think that might get even more stark. Will people support the program simply because they feel everyone else is attacking it?

[AUKaz00]

The wins? Meh. To the PSU fans, we'll probably hear a lot of "joe Paterno still holds the record in my book" (In fact, I have heard that already). Florida State will make a big deal out of it, but honestly, these sorts of symbolic gestures just ring hollow to me.

The vacating of the wins is the real head scratcher for me.  Perhaps there is precidence to this that I just haven't followed in the past, but nothing from this horrific situation that was allowed to exist was directly tied to on-field performance.  Maybe I'm missing the point here, but I felt like they vacated the wins just to strip JoePa of the record.

[pg04]

The wins? Meh. To the PSU fans, we'll probably hear a lot of "joe Paterno still holds the record in my book" (In fact, I have heard that already). Florida State will make a big deal out of it, but honestly, these sorts of symbolic gestures just ring hollow to me.

The vacating of the wins is the real head scratcher for me.  Perhaps there is precidence to this that I just haven't followed in the past, but nothing from this horrific situation that was allowed to exist was directly tied to on-field performance.  Maybe I'm missing the point here, but I felt like they vacated the wins just to strip JoePa of the record.

Well, you could say the reputation of the school and thus the program was kept solidified for those years when it shouldn't have been (and punishment rendered much sooner), thus improving recruiting, etc.

[AlfredSaxon8]

Just wondering what people's thoughts in what Penn State deserves as punishment? We will know what it is soon enough, but I am interested what the consenus is here.

To be honest, I think the "Death Penalty" would have been a step up from the punishment they received...

I do not think they will be the next SMU.  However, this will damage them for a long time.  Recruiting is going to suffer tremendously and although they may remain united now, the school is a proven winner and losing will get old fast. 

Just look at USC and their post season ban.  Their punishment didnt even scratch the surface of Penn State's and they only had a 2 year ban.  They are finally getting top talent and that's only with the promise that this upcoming year, they will once again be national contenders. Not to mention, athletes like Matt Barkley stuck by the program.  Who does Penn State have? Definitely not a hesiman contender. And at least an incoming freshman for USC two years ago still had the prospect of a BCS Championship their junior and senior year.

The loss of scholarships? Ehhh.  I dont put a lot into that.  To be honest, if they have a good financial aid department and provide opportunities for student athletes in a more a grant, work/study, academic and leadership scholarship way, it wont make much of a difference.  I'm assuming a portion of student atheletes under full scholarship would probably be eligible to attend school for free anyways through various programs especially because Penn State is a State University.

The most important thing that will happen is loss of media exposure.  Yes, they do have the Big 10 network.  However, Penn State could be 2 and 10 and still make the headlines because of Joe Paterno.  They were Linebacker U.  They started the "white out".  They had a lot of good coaches with (ironically) good reputations that could get people to the NFL.  Kids will not want to go there to play under joe schmo and a four year postseason ban with little media coverage.  Yes, they will get the whole "how is Penn State responding to their punishment" coverage on ESPN during Weeks 1 and 2 but after that, no one will care. 

Recruits use college as a sounding board for the NFL. Unless Penn State hires Nick Saban tomorrow, they are going to be very mediocre for a while because no one wants to be essentially ignored when they are trying to get drafted. After JoPa and this scandal blows over, it will get quiet at Beaver Stadium talent-wise and they will be posting the records I'm used to seeing at Notre Dame like 6 and 7 or 5 and 8.     

[Bombers798891]

They started the "white out". 

I know this isn't the point of this post, but as a hockey fan, this is one of my pet pevees. The "White Out" was trademarked by the Winnipeg Jets (before they moved to Phoenix). Penn State's actually been in violation of an agreement at times when using it in the past

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/1016p2main1016.html

As for the exposure/NFL part of it, I don't buy it. They're still going to be on ESPN/ABC because they're still a name-brand program, even if they struggle. I remember watching Michigan State multiple times a year when John L. Smith was dragging the program around the bottom of the conference, and I live in New York.

And even if they're not on TV, so what? NFL teams are going to find you if you're good enough. If a guy who started his collegiate career at the doormat program in this conference can get drafted, a kid going to PSU is going to be fine.

[pg04]

That's actually something I would have put in the punishment... ban on national TV appearances. That would have really hurt them (insofar as to exposure to recruits),

[AlfredSaxon8]

They started the "white out". 

I know this isn't the point of this post, but as a hockey fan, this is one of my pet pevees. The "White Out" was trademarked by the Winnipeg Jets (before they moved to Phoenix). Penn State's actually been in violation of an agreement at times when using it in the past

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/1016p2main1016.html

As for the exposure/NFL part of it, I don't buy it. They're still going to be on ESPN/ABC because they're still a name-brand program, even if they struggle. I remember watching Michigan State multiple times a year when John L. Smith was dragging the program around the bottom of the conference, and I live in New York.

And even if they're not on TV, so what? NFL teams are going to find you if you're good enough. If a guy who started his collegiate career at the doormat program in this conference can get drafted, a kid going to PSU is going to be fine.

Haha well I apologize for the "white out" reference then...

But that's also the problem with the Big 10 Network.  They hold a lot of the collective rights to these programs.  Because of that, they will get fewer ESPN/ABC games.  It actually already has happened.  You see less and less of Big 10 teams on major networks for this point. Unless you are talking two ranked teams or a situation like a night game in primetime.  Why do you think everytime you turn on the tv its a mediocre SEC matchup on CBS? Like lets watch which school from Mississippi LSU is going to dominate today.   

And I'm not talking about doormat programs.  Penn State will be mediocre to borderline competitive.  It's the top recruits that I'm referencing.  The ones that get teams like Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking. The coaches that get Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking.  Those kind of kids, those kind of coaches, will not go to Penn State and to be honest, "those" players havent gone there in quite some time.  I think the last big draft pick from them (correct me if I'm wrong) was Paul Posluszny.  They will get recruits.  No doubt about that.  Just like UND, Michigan, FSU still got good recruits during their down years.  It's the top tier talent and depth that wont want to go there. It's a different game whether you like to believe it or not.  People go to schools like UND to go Ireland for their season opener.  To play under the lights at Michigan Stadium.  To play in the Colessium.  What does Penn State have to offer at this point that these kids or coaches cant get somewhere else? And at a competitive program too where they at least get crazy incentives for Bowl wins even if they go to Clemson and get spanked by WVU. 

With JoPa went the legacy and so did this teams future.  But as a mentor or the previous home of Paterno, it could still work for some. Like Alabama and Bear Bryant. Not any more.