FB: Empire 8

[Mr. Ypsi]

They started the "white out". 

I know this isn't the point of this post, but as a hockey fan, this is one of my pet pevees. The "White Out" was trademarked by the Winnipeg Jets (before they moved to Phoenix). Penn State's actually been in violation of an agreement at times when using it in the past

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/1016p2main1016.html

As for the exposure/NFL part of it, I don't buy it. They're still going to be on ESPN/ABC because they're still a name-brand program, even if they struggle. I remember watching Michigan State multiple times a year when John L. Smith was dragging the program around the bottom of the conference, and I live in New York.

And even if they're not on TV, so what? NFL teams are going to find you if you're good enough. If a guy who started his collegiate career at the doormat program in this conference can get drafted, a kid going to PSU is going to be fine.

Haha well I apologize for the "white out" reference then...

But that's also the problem with the Big 10 Network.  They hold a lot of the collective rights to these programs.  Because of that, they will get fewer ESPN/ABC games.  It actually already has happened.  You see less and less of Big 10 teams on major networks for this point. Unless you are talking two ranked teams or a situation like a night game in primetime.  Why do you think everytime you turn on the tv its a mediocre SEC matchup on CBS? Like lets watch which school from Mississippi LSU is going to dominate today.   

And I'm not talking about doormat programs.  Penn State will be mediocre to borderline competitive.  It's the top recruits that I'm referencing.  The ones that get teams like Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking. The coaches that get Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking.  Those kind of kids, those kind of coaches, will not go to Penn State and to be honest, "those" players havent gone there in quite some time.  I think the last big draft pick from them (correct me if I'm wrong) was Paul Posluszny.  They will get recruits.  No doubt about that.  Just like UND, Michigan, FSU still got good recruits during their down years.  It's the top tier talent and depth that wont want to go there. It's a different game whether you like to believe it or not.  People go to schools like UND to go Ireland for their season opener.  To play under the lights at Michigan Stadium.  To play in the Colessium.  What does Penn State have to offer at this point that these kids or coaches cant get somewhere else? And at a competitive program too where they at least get crazy incentives for Bowl wins even if they go to Clemson and get spanked by WVU. 

With JoPa went the legacy and so did this teams future.  But as a mentor or the previous home of Paterno, it could still work for some. Like Alabama and Bear Bryant. Not any more.     

One minor correction - the first night game ever at 'The Big House' was not played until September 10, 2011!  But knowing that every game you play at home will be in front of over 100,000 fans is probably quite a draw, regardless of game time.  (Even if it does often have the (mostly deserved) reputation of being the quietest 100,000+ ever assembled! )

[AlfredSaxon8]

They started the "white out". 

I know this isn't the point of this post, but as a hockey fan, this is one of my pet pevees. The "White Out" was trademarked by the Winnipeg Jets (before they moved to Phoenix). Penn State's actually been in violation of an agreement at times when using it in the past

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/1016p2main1016.html

As for the exposure/NFL part of it, I don't buy it. They're still going to be on ESPN/ABC because they're still a name-brand program, even if they struggle. I remember watching Michigan State multiple times a year when John L. Smith was dragging the program around the bottom of the conference, and I live in New York.

And even if they're not on TV, so what? NFL teams are going to find you if you're good enough. If a guy who started his collegiate career at the doormat program in this conference can get drafted, a kid going to PSU is going to be fine.

Haha well I apologize for the "white out" reference then...

But that's also the problem with the Big 10 Network.  They hold a lot of the collective rights to these programs.  Because of that, they will get fewer ESPN/ABC games.  It actually already has happened.  You see less and less of Big 10 teams on major networks for this point. Unless you are talking two ranked teams or a situation like a night game in primetime.  Why do you think everytime you turn on the tv its a mediocre SEC matchup on CBS? Like lets watch which school from Mississippi LSU is going to dominate today.   

And I'm not talking about doormat programs.  Penn State will be mediocre to borderline competitive.  It's the top recruits that I'm referencing.  The ones that get teams like Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking. The coaches that get Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking.  Those kind of kids, those kind of coaches, will not go to Penn State and to be honest, "those" players havent gone there in quite some time.  I think the last big draft pick from them (correct me if I'm wrong) was Paul Posluszny.  They will get recruits.  No doubt about that.  Just like UND, Michigan, FSU still got good recruits during their down years.  It's the top tier talent and depth that wont want to go there. It's a different game whether you like to believe it or not.  People go to schools like UND to go Ireland for their season opener.  To play under the lights at Michigan Stadium.  To play in the Colessium.  What does Penn State have to offer at this point that these kids or coaches cant get somewhere else? And at a competitive program too where they at least get crazy incentives for Bowl wins even if they go to Clemson and get spanked by WVU. 

With JoPa went the legacy and so did this teams future.  But as a mentor or the previous home of Paterno, it could still work for some. Like Alabama and Bear Bryant. Not any more.     

One minor correction - the first night game ever at 'The Big House' was not played until September 10, 2011!  But knowing that every game you play at home will be in front of over 100,000 fans is probably quite a draw, regardless of game time.  (Even if it does often have the (mostly deserved) reputation of being the quietest 100,000+ ever assembled! )

Haha it was rocking last year when they had an improbable last minute drive against Notre Dame.  I say improbable sarcastically considering the Irish's swiss cheese defense.  But nonetheless, Michigan had a good year.  Nice to see them returning to former shades of blue and maize.  I actually watched a repeat of that game that I DVR'd and I still cant believe how bad ND choked.  They dominated the whole first half.  But there's sixty minutes and ND played about 35 of them. 

[Bombers798891]

That's actually something I would have put in the punishment... ban on national TV appearances. That would have really hurt them (insofar as to exposure to recruits),

Yeah but that also hurts the teams that would have played Penn State on TV. If I'm a member school, I don't want punishments that hurt can hurt *me* if I'm not even the school in question

[Bombers798891]

They started the "white out". 

I know this isn't the point of this post, but as a hockey fan, this is one of my pet pevees. The "White Out" was trademarked by the Winnipeg Jets (before they moved to Phoenix). Penn State's actually been in violation of an agreement at times when using it in the past

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/1016p2main1016.html

As for the exposure/NFL part of it, I don't buy it. They're still going to be on ESPN/ABC because they're still a name-brand program, even if they struggle. I remember watching Michigan State multiple times a year when John L. Smith was dragging the program around the bottom of the conference, and I live in New York.

And even if they're not on TV, so what? NFL teams are going to find you if you're good enough. If a guy who started his collegiate career at the doormat program in this conference can get drafted, a kid going to PSU is going to be fine.

Haha well I apologize for the "white out" reference then...

But that's also the problem with the Big 10 Network.  They hold a lot of the collective rights to these programs.  Because of that, they will get fewer ESPN/ABC games.  It actually already has happened.  You see less and less of Big 10 teams on major networks for this point. Unless you are talking two ranked teams or a situation like a night game in primetime.  Why do you think everytime you turn on the tv its a mediocre SEC matchup on CBS? Like lets watch which school from Mississippi LSU is going to dominate today.   

And I'm not talking about doormat programs.  Penn State will be mediocre to borderline competitive.  It's the top recruits that I'm referencing.  The ones that get teams like Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking. The coaches that get Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking.  Those kind of kids, those kind of coaches, will not go to Penn State and to be honest, "those" players havent gone there in quite some time.  I think the last big draft pick from them (correct me if I'm wrong) was Paul Posluszny.  They will get recruits.  No doubt about that.  Just like UND, Michigan, FSU still got good recruits during their down years.  It's the top tier talent and depth that wont want to go there. It's a different game whether you like to believe it or not.  People go to schools like UND to go Ireland for their season opener.  To play under the lights at Michigan Stadium.  To play in the Colessium.  What does Penn State have to offer at this point that these kids or coaches cant get somewhere else? And at a competitive program too where they at least get crazy incentives for Bowl wins even if they go to Clemson and get spanked by WVU. 

With JoPa went the legacy and so did this teams future.  But as a mentor or the previous home of Paterno, it could still work for some. Like Alabama and Bear Bryant. Not any more.     

IDK man, I see mostly dreck on the BTN. It's either two mediocre programs (Like Northwestern vs. Indiana) or a Michigan-UMass/Wisconsin-Utah State game.

The elite Big 10 schools are going to okay, as long as they don't schedule dreck.

[AlfredSaxon8]

They started the "white out". 

I know this isn't the point of this post, but as a hockey fan, this is one of my pet pevees. The "White Out" was trademarked by the Winnipeg Jets (before they moved to Phoenix). Penn State's actually been in violation of an agreement at times when using it in the past

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/1016p2main1016.html

As for the exposure/NFL part of it, I don't buy it. They're still going to be on ESPN/ABC because they're still a name-brand program, even if they struggle. I remember watching Michigan State multiple times a year when John L. Smith was dragging the program around the bottom of the conference, and I live in New York.

And even if they're not on TV, so what? NFL teams are going to find you if you're good enough. If a guy who started his collegiate career at the doormat program in this conference can get drafted, a kid going to PSU is going to be fine.

Haha well I apologize for the "white out" reference then...

But that's also the problem with the Big 10 Network.  They hold a lot of the collective rights to these programs.  Because of that, they will get fewer ESPN/ABC games.  It actually already has happened.  You see less and less of Big 10 teams on major networks for this point. Unless you are talking two ranked teams or a situation like a night game in primetime.  Why do you think everytime you turn on the tv its a mediocre SEC matchup on CBS? Like lets watch which school from Mississippi LSU is going to dominate today.   

And I'm not talking about doormat programs.  Penn State will be mediocre to borderline competitive.  It's the top recruits that I'm referencing.  The ones that get teams like Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking. The coaches that get Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking.  Those kind of kids, those kind of coaches, will not go to Penn State and to be honest, "those" players havent gone there in quite some time.  I think the last big draft pick from them (correct me if I'm wrong) was Paul Posluszny.  They will get recruits.  No doubt about that.  Just like UND, Michigan, FSU still got good recruits during their down years.  It's the top tier talent and depth that wont want to go there. It's a different game whether you like to believe it or not.  People go to schools like UND to go Ireland for their season opener.  To play under the lights at Michigan Stadium.  To play in the Colessium.  What does Penn State have to offer at this point that these kids or coaches cant get somewhere else? And at a competitive program too where they at least get crazy incentives for Bowl wins even if they go to Clemson and get spanked by WVU. 

With JoPa went the legacy and so did this teams future.  But as a mentor or the previous home of Paterno, it could still work for some. Like Alabama and Bear Bryant. Not any more.     

IDK man, I see mostly dreck on the BTN. It's either two mediocre programs (Like Northwestern vs. Indiana) or a Michigan-UMass/Wisconsin-Utah State game.

The elite Big 10 schools are going to okay, as long as they don't schedule dreck.

Haha I wish I could record that Northwestern vs Indiana game on Saturday and play it Sunday instead of the god awful Arizona Cardinals they have on here.  However, the Bills play there this year so I'll be making a trip up to Phoenix to root on Fitz and my boys. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

They started the "white out". 

I know this isn't the point of this post, but as a hockey fan, this is one of my pet pevees. The "White Out" was trademarked by the Winnipeg Jets (before they moved to Phoenix). Penn State's actually been in violation of an agreement at times when using it in the past

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/1016p2main1016.html

As for the exposure/NFL part of it, I don't buy it. They're still going to be on ESPN/ABC because they're still a name-brand program, even if they struggle. I remember watching Michigan State multiple times a year when John L. Smith was dragging the program around the bottom of the conference, and I live in New York.

And even if they're not on TV, so what? NFL teams are going to find you if you're good enough. If a guy who started his collegiate career at the doormat program in this conference can get drafted, a kid going to PSU is going to be fine.

Haha well I apologize for the "white out" reference then...

But that's also the problem with the Big 10 Network.  They hold a lot of the collective rights to these programs.  Because of that, they will get fewer ESPN/ABC games.  It actually already has happened.  You see less and less of Big 10 teams on major networks for this point. Unless you are talking two ranked teams or a situation like a night game in primetime.  Why do you think everytime you turn on the tv its a mediocre SEC matchup on CBS? Like lets watch which school from Mississippi LSU is going to dominate today.   

And I'm not talking about doormat programs.  Penn State will be mediocre to borderline competitive.  It's the top recruits that I'm referencing.  The ones that get teams like Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking. The coaches that get Oklahoma State to a Top 3 ranking.  Those kind of kids, those kind of coaches, will not go to Penn State and to be honest, "those" players havent gone there in quite some time.  I think the last big draft pick from them (correct me if I'm wrong) was Paul Posluszny.  They will get recruits.  No doubt about that.  Just like UND, Michigan, FSU still got good recruits during their down years.  It's the top tier talent and depth that wont want to go there. It's a different game whether you like to believe it or not.  People go to schools like UND to go Ireland for their season opener.  To play under the lights at Michigan Stadium.  To play in the Colessium.  What does Penn State have to offer at this point that these kids or coaches cant get somewhere else? And at a competitive program too where they at least get crazy incentives for Bowl wins even if they go to Clemson and get spanked by WVU. 

With JoPa went the legacy and so did this teams future.  But as a mentor or the previous home of Paterno, it could still work for some. Like Alabama and Bear Bryant. Not any more.     

One minor correction - the first night game ever at 'The Big House' was not played until September 10, 2011!  But knowing that every game you play at home will be in front of over 100,000 fans is probably quite a draw, regardless of game time.  (Even if it does often have the (mostly deserved) reputation of being the quietest 100,000+ ever assembled! )

Haha it was rocking last year when they had an improbable last minute drive against Notre Dame.  I say improbable sarcastically considering the Irish's swiss cheese defense.  But nonetheless, Michigan had a good year.  Nice to see them returning to former shades of blue and maize.  I actually watched a repeat of that game that I DVR'd and I still cant believe how bad ND choked.  They dominated the whole first half.  But there's sixty minutes and ND played about 35 of them.

Yeah, the Big House can rock for some games (esp. ND, MSU, and OSU), and I understand the 2010 renovation amplifies the sound considerably from before, but I've been at games where I could have sworn I was at an orchestra concert or golf match!

[sjfcards]

Just wondering what people's thoughts in what Penn State deserves as punishment? We will know what it is soon enough, but I am interested what the consenus is here.

To be honest, I think the "Death Penalty" would have been a step up from the punishment they received...

I do not think they will be the next SMU.  However, this will damage them for a long time.  Recruiting is going to suffer tremendously and although they may remain united now, the school is a proven winner and losing will get old fast. 

Just look at USC and their post season ban.  Their punishment didnt even scratch the surface of Penn State's and they only had a 2 year ban.  They are finally getting top talent and that's only with the promise that this upcoming year, they will once again be national contenders. Not to mention, athletes like Matt Barkley stuck by the program.  Who does Penn State have? Definitely not a hesiman contender. And at least an incoming freshman for USC two years ago still had the prospect of a BCS Championship their junior and senior year.

The loss of scholarships? Ehhh.  I dont put a lot into that.  To be honest, if they have a good financial aid department and provide opportunities for student athletes in a more a grant, work/study, academic and leadership scholarship way, it wont make much of a difference.  I'm assuming a portion of student atheletes under full scholarship would probably be eligible to attend school for free anyways through various programs especially because Penn State is a State University.

The most important thing that will happen is loss of media exposure.  Yes, they do have the Big 10 network.  However, Penn State could be 2 and 10 and still make the headlines because of Joe Paterno.  They were Linebacker U.  They started the "white out".  They had a lot of good coaches with (ironically) good reputations that could get people to the NFL.  Kids will not want to go there to play under joe schmo and a four year postseason ban with little media coverage.  Yes, they will get the whole "how is Penn State responding to their punishment" coverage on ESPN during Weeks 1 and 2 but after that, no one will care. 

Recruits use college as a sounding board for the NFL. Unless Penn State hires Nick Saban tomorrow, they are going to be very mediocre for a while because no one wants to be essentially ignored when they are trying to get drafted. After JoPa and this scandal blows over, it will get quiet at Beaver Stadium talent-wise and they will be posting the records I'm used to seeing at Notre Dame like 6 and 7 or 5 and 8.   

I agree that the death penalty would have been a more appropriate punishment, but for a different reason. In my head, if this doesn't warrant the death penalty, then what does? SMU gt the death penalty for their recruiting tactics, but I would much rather have high school seniors getting cars and money than have kids abused in a shower. To me the PSU story is far worse. If I were the coach of a school like USC, or Miami that is going to have talent even with sanctions, I feel like I would know I can push the envelope knowing that no way I am going to get the death penalty (not sure this sounds the way I mean it to, but hopefully you understand).

I actually really like the fine angle, since the money seems to be the only way to make these schools take notice of any punishment the NCAA hands out.

[Bombers798891]

In my head, if this doesn't warrant the death penalty, then what does?

A major Division I football (and probably men's basketball) program will never get the death penalty again. Giving Penn State the death penalty six weeks before the start of the season was never really logical. How do you handle the schedule imbalances in conference? If Michigan State goes 7-1 in conference, Nebraska goes 6-1, and the Huskers beat the Spartans, who wins the division? 7-1 is better than 6-1, but Nebraska's probably thinking they could beat Penn State at home. Someone's going to be mad no matter who you pick, and claim they lost out on the revenue/exposure of the conference title game and possibly the Rose Bowl.

Sure, you could make everyone play seven conference games instead of eight, but then teams have to find replacement games, and you know someone will get some gift like getting to drop Michigan on the road, putting them at an advantage.

What happens if, IDK, Wisconsin runs the table, but playing one less game (or replacing PSU with a mediocre non-conference game) costs them a spot in the BCS title game?

Is Penn State responsible for giving Virginia the lost revenue from a home game? How do you quantify, for example, the value Ohio or Navy loses because one of their televised, high-profile games is now gone?

Sure, you'll see it in lower divisions/minor sports because there's a lot less money involved. But there are too many major repercussions at the major D-I football level

[Jonny Utah]

Just wondering what people's thoughts in what Penn State deserves as punishment? We will know what it is soon enough, but I am interested what the consenus is here.

To be honest, I think the "Death Penalty" would have been a step up from the punishment they received...

I do not think they will be the next SMU.  However, this will damage them for a long time.  Recruiting is going to suffer tremendously and although they may remain united now, the school is a proven winner and losing will get old fast. 

Just look at USC and their post season ban.  Their punishment didnt even scratch the surface of Penn State's and they only had a 2 year ban.  They are finally getting top talent and that's only with the promise that this upcoming year, they will once again be national contenders. Not to mention, athletes like Matt Barkley stuck by the program.  Who does Penn State have? Definitely not a hesiman contender. And at least an incoming freshman for USC two years ago still had the prospect of a BCS Championship their junior and senior year.

The loss of scholarships? Ehhh.  I dont put a lot into that.  To be honest, if they have a good financial aid department and provide opportunities for student athletes in a more a grant, work/study, academic and leadership scholarship way, it wont make much of a difference.  I'm assuming a portion of student atheletes under full scholarship would probably be eligible to attend school for free anyways through various programs especially because Penn State is a State University.

The most important thing that will happen is loss of media exposure.  Yes, they do have the Big 10 network.  However, Penn State could be 2 and 10 and still make the headlines because of Joe Paterno.  They were Linebacker U.  They started the "white out".  They had a lot of good coaches with (ironically) good reputations that could get people to the NFL.  Kids will not want to go there to play under joe schmo and a four year postseason ban with little media coverage.  Yes, they will get the whole "how is Penn State responding to their punishment" coverage on ESPN during Weeks 1 and 2 but after that, no one will care. 

Recruits use college as a sounding board for the NFL. Unless Penn State hires Nick Saban tomorrow, they are going to be very mediocre for a while because no one wants to be essentially ignored when they are trying to get drafted. After JoPa and this scandal blows over, it will get quiet at Beaver Stadium talent-wise and they will be posting the records I'm used to seeing at Notre Dame like 6 and 7 or 5 and 8.   

I agree that the death penalty would have been a more appropriate punishment, but for a different reason. In my head, if this doesn't warrant the death penalty, then what does? SMU gt the death penalty for their recruiting tactics, but I would much rather have high school seniors getting cars and money than have kids abused in a shower. To me the PSU story is far worse. If I were the coach of a school like USC, or Miami that is going to have talent even with sanctions, I feel like I would know I can push the envelope knowing that no way I am going to get the death penalty (not sure this sounds the way I mean it to, but hopefully you understand).

I actually really like the fine angle, since the money seems to be the only way to make these schools take notice of any punishment the NCAA hands out.

I think the difference is that Penn State didn't actually really break any rules (in terms of football program gaining an advantage), but the other cases involved a deliberate and malicious intent to cheat the rules and gain an advantage over other programs. 

What Penn State did was worse in every sense of the law and morality, but I still think the intent and nature of the crime in terms of how it effects the program matters as well. 

[Knightstalker]

My biggest problem is I do not completely trust the Freeh report.  The NCAA should have done their own independent investigation of the matter.  Trusting a report commissioned by the offending institution is like allowing someone indicted for a crime to investigate that crime and use that investigation during trial.  I just get the feeling that the authors of the Freeh report were instructed to place more blame on Paterno then maybe should have.  Dead men can't defend themselves.  The NCAA did this too close to the start of the season for the players to be able to transfer somewhere else for this season, other schools no longer  have scholarships to give.  They need to allow the players to transfer for the next year to be fair to kids who had nothing to to with this at all.  The fine is a good move but they are punishing kids more than anyone else.

I also heard from a source that I trust is basically Penn State was given a choice, take the sanctions that were passed down yesterday or take a 4 year death penalty.  If that is true, the NCAA basically used Mob strong arm tactics.

[Jonny Utah]

My biggest problem is I do not completely trust the Freeh report.  The NCAA should have done their own independent investigation of the matter.  Trusting a report commissioned by the offending institution is like allowing someone indicted for a crime to investigate that crime and use that investigation during trial.  I just get the feeling that the authors of the Freeh report were instructed to place more blame on Paterno then maybe should have.  Dead men can't defend themselves.  The NCAA did this too close to the start of the season for the players to be able to transfer somewhere else for this season, other schools no longer  have scholarships to give.  They need to allow the players to transfer for the next year to be fair to kids who had nothing to to with this at all.  The fine is a good move but they are punishing kids more than anyone else.

I also heard from a source that I trust is basically Penn State was given a choice, take the sanctions that were passed down yesterday or take a 4 year death penalty.  If that is true, the NCAA basically used Mob strong arm tactics.

I heard that the 4 year death penalty was an option that the NCAA had thought about, but I doubt they offered Penn State a choice, as that really isn't a choice.

I was never a Paterno fan before this whole thing happened, and I think he was simply too out of touch to be running a program so large.  And now that hes dead, everyone can just say they told Paterno about everything that happened and no one could say any different.

[Jonny Utah]

The worst part about these NCAA bans is that the coaches never get effected either.  I wonder if any of these victims will be allowed to sue Paternos estate.

[PBR...]

My biggest problem is I do not completely trust the Freeh report.  The NCAA should have done their own independent investigation of the matter.  Trusting a report commissioned by the offending institution is like allowing someone indicted for a crime to investigate that crime and use that investigation during trial.  I just get the feeling that the authors of the Freeh report were instructed to place more blame on Paterno then maybe should have.  Dead men can't defend themselves.  The NCAA did this too close to the start of the season for the players to be able to transfer somewhere else for this season, other schools no longer  have scholarships to give.  They need to allow the players to transfer for the next year to be fair to kids who had nothing to to with this at all.  The fine is a good move but they are punishing kids more than anyone else.

I also heard from a source that I trust is basically Penn State was given a choice, take the sanctions that were passed down yesterday or take a 4 year death penalty.  If that is true, the NCAA basically used Mob strong arm tactics.

I heard that the 4 year death penalty was an option that the NCAA had thought about, but I doubt they offered Penn State a choice, as that really isn't a choice.

I was never a Paterno fan before this whole thing happened, and I think he was simply too out of touch to be running a program so large.  And now that hes dead, everyone can just say they told Paterno about everything that happened and no one could say any different.

Just to clear up a bunch of misinfo being put out by the media as usual... the death penalty was NEVER discussed per the head of the ncaa... here are his quotes...
President Erickson was quoted today as saying that Penn State accepted that deal because if not, you would have decided to suspend play. Can you confirm that?

Ray: I've known Rod for a long time. I didn't hear what he said. I was on a plane flying back to Oregon. But I can tell you categorically, there was never a threat made to anyone about suspension of play if the consent decree was not agreed to.

So it wasn't as though you said, "Take this deal or we're shutting you down"?

Ray: That was never even a point of discussion within either the executive committee or the Division I board.

Next point...the sanctions yesterday were only against the university. They are waiting for everything to play out in the courts to see what individuals could be punished...
The consent decree does not address the actions of any individuals at PSU.  In fact, if you read Ed Ray's interview yesterday, the NCAA acknowledged that it does not have all of the facts about individual culpability.  Instead, they are going to take a "wait and see attitude" with respect to taking actions against individuals.  If the NCAA doesn't know whether the PSU administrators were individually culpable how can the university be culpable? 
This is what Ed Ray said:  "I think [Emmert] said it right in that we don't have all the facts about individual culpability.  The Freeh report talked about individual culpability.  The Freeh report talked about the participants and the cover-up and the conspiracy.  But as Mark said, we're going to take a wait-and-see attitude with respect to taking further actions with respect to individuals, as the legal and other processes play their way out, and we get hopefully a clearer sense of what, if any, culpability individual have.  So we did not not take action with respect to individuals.  We took action with respect to a university that lacked institutional commitment to integrity and the other values of the NCAA."

Of course, the president of the university simply can admit that the university is culpable, as he did.  But it all certainly does not seem congruous.

Next point...They can try and sue the paterno's but in reality what did they do that was wrong? He reported it to his superiors and expected it to be handled. It has been stated over and over that Joe Paterno broke no law.

Hopefully this clears some of this misinfo being bantered around out there.

[PBR...]

My biggest problem is I do not completely trust the Freeh report.  The NCAA should have done their own independent investigation of the matter.  Trusting a report commissioned by the offending institution is like allowing someone indicted for a crime to investigate that crime and use that investigation during trial.  I just get the feeling that the authors of the Freeh report were instructed to place more blame on Paterno then maybe should have.  Dead men can't defend themselves.  The NCAA did this too close to the start of the season for the players to be able to transfer somewhere else for this season, other schools no longer  have scholarships to give.  They need to allow the players to transfer for the next year to be fair to kids who had nothing to to with this at all.  The fine is a good move but they are punishing kids more than anyone else.


I also heard from a source that I trust is basically Penn State was given a choice, take the sanctions that were passed down yesterday or take a 4 year death penalty.  If that is true, the NCAA basically used Mob strong arm tactics.

Correctamundo...PSU by almost every lawyer that has discussed this would be a slam dunk to have PSU could easily have this thrown out in court and not have 1 violation against them. Problem therein lies they would lose a gigantic PR battle in that they are more concerned about football and money than the kids. The ncaa has way overstepped their bounds here. Does the ncaa now go after the uva lacrosse player who murdered his girlfriend at uva and say they could of done more to prevent this? Do they go after every kid who gets caught jay walking or speeding ticket? Where do they now draw the line? No doubt PSU deserved punishment I am not arguing that but the ncaa opened up a gigantic can of worms for themselves yesterday. This all based off a report where freeh openly admits it's all his opinion and not based on facts. He didn't interview 5 of the 6 major players in this mess. what a gigantic cluster f....How does the current governor of PA get a free pass in all of this? he took $600,000 from the 2nd mile foundation in campaign contributions and granted them millions of dollars as governor knowing a indictment was coming down on the foundation? He also served on the board of trustees on that foundation and as attorney general of the state of PA he said there wasn't enough evidence to convict sandusky. good lord it's like he is sandusky's right hand man in this mess...

[Jonny Utah]

I agree that Penn State kind of let this one investigation (and possibly a one sided investigation) be the official investigation, but I'll never buy the "Paterno reported this to his superiors and that is all he could have done" excuse.  I've heard that one a bunch of times and I'm not buying it, unless McQuery didn't actually tell him that he saw a boy being raped.  If Paterno did hear from McQuery that a boy was raped by Sandusky, and Sandusky continued to be around the campus in front of Paterno, that simply doesn't fly with me.  If I'm the coach, I'm calling the police chief and asking what happend with the investagtion of a boy who you know was raped.  Again, if Paterno didn't know (which I still would not rule out), then he might be ok, but since he isn't alive, it is a little unfair since he can't even defend himself.

But that is what happens with cover ups.  Only 1 or 2 people officially cover it up, but everyone else turns their head and hopes someone else handles it and wishes it never comes back.