FB: Empire 8

[fisheralum91]

82,
All I can tell you is that Utica Club and Fisher football go hand in hand!

[Yanks 99]

Utica is in uncharted waters as a program
and some of their coaches are quite young.
I think that, win or lose, we will be doing a
lot more head scratching over coaching calls
this year.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Utica is in "uncharted" waters as a program?  To me, they are in the same boat that they have been for the last 3 years or so...off to a good start, but still remaining suspect of where they stand because they haven't won any significant league games in their entire program's history.

Some of their newer coaches might be young...I was actually amazed to see that they had 17 coaches total listed in the program...but the main guys have been around for a bit (D-Coordinator Plouffe is in his second year as the DC and 6th year overall with the program, O-Cooridnator Fitzpatrick is in his 5th as the OC and the 6th year with the program, and Blaise is in his 6th year as the Head Coach).  Not sure why you would expect to see more head scratching calls, as overall, this is fairly experienced group of coaches who have been together for some time.

[Bombers798891]

Utica is in uncharted waters as a program
and some of their coaches are quite young.
I think that, win or lose, we will be doing a
lot more head scratching over coaching calls
this year.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Utica is in "uncharted" waters as a program?  To me, they are in the same boat that they have been for the last 3 years or so...off to a good start, but still remaining suspect of where they stand because they haven't won any significant league games in their entire program's history.

Some of their newer coaches might be young...I was actually amazed to see that they had 17 coaches total listed in the program...but the main guys have been around for a bit (D-Coordinator Plouffe is in his second year as the DC and 6th year overall with the program, O-Cooridnator Fitzpatrick is in his 5th as the OC and the 6th year with the program, and Blaise is in his 6th year as the Head Coach).  Not sure why you would expect to see more head scratching calls, as overall, this is fairly experienced group of coaches who have been together for some time.

I think Utica's looking to make statements. And, fair or not, margin of victory matters to some people. We've seen similar things before from Utica. How about them throwing the ball up 65-13 in the 4th against Becker in 2010? Or up 43-0 in 2009? Of course, every team does this from time to time. But for Utica, it seems like that's how they aim to get attention. Big, flashy scores. It's tough, because they've yet to really get a marquee win (No, beating the worst Ithaca team in 40 years at home does not count as a marquee win) and they're trying to make their mark. But it's unfortunate to see

[SJFF82]

To dlip, Utica's offensive output could have been doubled if they didn't take their foot off the gas.

I'd disagree with this part.  When up by 45-17 late in the 4th, all first-team offense remained in the game for Utica.  There were some odd calls being made coaching-wise on that sideline all night that still confound me, including a re-kick after an out-of-bounds kickoff that exited the boundary at the 2 (that automatically would have gone to the 40 -- and the rekick led to a lost fumble to Union).  Accepting a 5-yard penalty on an incomplete 1st and 10 pass when the opponent is in obvious 4-down territory (1st and 15 instead of 2nd and 10 around the Utica 35) was yet another, "Huh?" moment.

Anyway, there was no reason for the first-team offense to be in the game past the first drive of the 4th quarter, with Utica up by 25.  They have an excellent team (it might have been good to give some experience to the second teamers while they had a chance to do so), and Union never has embarrassed Utica like other teams had to warrant some sort of "message."  Maybe the mouthing off before the Union/SJF playoff game in 2006 somehow made Blaise a Union-hater -- but it doesn't warrant risking your top players to injury unnecessarily, especially in Week 2.

Frank, not sure how much time you mean by "past 1st drive of 4th" and there is a differnce between being up by 25 and being up 45-17, but SJF was up by 4 tds against UR a few years  ago AT HOME in the 4th and the game literally came down to the UR QB simply under-handing a toss into a wide open receiver's arms in the endzone for a game tying 2pt conversion with seconds left and he somehow underthrew it and it bounced and SJF luckily survived, so who's to say when a lead is safe at this level....

[Frank Rossi]

To dlip, Utica's offensive output could have been doubled if they didn't take their foot off the gas.

I'd disagree with this part.  When up by 45-17 late in the 4th, all first-team offense remained in the game for Utica.  There were some odd calls being made coaching-wise on that sideline all night that still confound me, including a re-kick after an out-of-bounds kickoff that exited the boundary at the 2 (that automatically would have gone to the 40 -- and the rekick led to a lost fumble to Union).  Accepting a 5-yard penalty on an incomplete 1st and 10 pass when the opponent is in obvious 4-down territory (1st and 15 instead of 2nd and 10 around the Utica 35) was yet another, "Huh?" moment.

Anyway, there was no reason for the first-team offense to be in the game past the first drive of the 4th quarter, with Utica up by 25.  They have an excellent team (it might have been good to give some experience to the second teamers while they had a chance to do so), and Union never has embarrassed Utica like other teams had to warrant some sort of "message."  Maybe the mouthing off before the Union/SJF playoff game in 2006 somehow made Blaise a Union-hater -- but it doesn't warrant risking your top players to injury unnecessarily, especially in Week 2.

Frank, not sure how much time you mean by "past 1st drive of 4th" and there is a differnce between being up by 25 and being up 45-17, but SJF was up by 4 tds against UR a few years  ago AT HOME in the 4th and the game literally came down to the UR QB simply under-handing a toss into a wide open receiver's arms in the endzone for a game tying 2pt conversion with seconds left and he somehow underthrew it and it bounced and SJF luckily survived, so who's to say when a lead is safe at this level....

I think I focused on the first-team offense in my post more than the defense.  However, there's a time to pull players on both sides of the ball.  Also, the UR/SJF game (Courage Bowl rivalry game) occurred before the timing rules changed.  It's not as likely now for even that anomaly.

[SJFF82]

To dlip, Utica's offensive output could have been doubled if they didn't take their foot off the gas.

I'd disagree with this part.  When up by 45-17 late in the 4th, all first-team offense remained in the game for Utica.  There were some odd calls being made coaching-wise on that sideline all night that still confound me, including a re-kick after an out-of-bounds kickoff that exited the boundary at the 2 (that automatically would have gone to the 40 -- and the rekick led to a lost fumble to Union).  Accepting a 5-yard penalty on an incomplete 1st and 10 pass when the opponent is in obvious 4-down territory (1st and 15 instead of 2nd and 10 around the Utica 35) was yet another, "Huh?" moment.

Anyway, there was no reason for the first-team offense to be in the game past the first drive of the 4th quarter, with Utica up by 25.  They have an excellent team (it might have been good to give some experience to the second teamers while they had a chance to do so), and Union never has embarrassed Utica like other teams had to warrant some sort of "message."  Maybe the mouthing off before the Union/SJF playoff game in 2006 somehow made Blaise a Union-hater -- but it doesn't warrant risking your top players to injury unnecessarily, especially in Week 2.

Frank, not sure how much time you mean by "past 1st drive of 4th" and there is a differnce between being up by 25 and being up 45-17, but SJF was up by 4 tds against UR a few years  ago AT HOME in the 4th and the game literally came down to the UR QB simply under-handing a toss into a wide open receiver's arms in the endzone for a game tying 2pt conversion with seconds left and he somehow underthrew it and it bounced and SJF luckily survived, so who's to say when a lead is safe at this level....

I think I focused on the first-team offense in my post more than the defense.  However, there's a time to pull players on both sides of the ball.  Also, the UR/SJF game (Courage Bowl rivalry game) occurred before the timing rules changed.  It's not as likely now for even that anomaly.

Well, it hasnt been much of a rivalry at SJF 7 wins UR 0....and not sure about the rules and how that changes anything....they still play 60minutes and a receiver can still stop the clock by getting out of bounds and defenses can still cause turnoevrs, and the onside kick is still legal, so my my estimation it comes down to coaching in the moment....you have to have a feel for the game, feel for your oppositions level of ability to mount a comeback, etc.  Without drawing a line in the sand, I suppose if up by more than 3 scores (25pts or more) with under lets say 4-5 minutes, now i feel safe...

Remember Super Bowl XXII?  Redskins v Broncos....Doug Williams, Timmy Smith, The Posse, etc   42 pts in 5min 42 secs in the 2nd?

[Frank Rossi]

The clock restarts when the ball is spotted outside 2 minutes left in each half on out-of-bounds plays.  It's definitely shrinking games.

[Bombers798891]

To dlip, Utica's offensive output could have been doubled if they didn't take their foot off the gas.

I'd disagree with this part.  When up by 45-17 late in the 4th, all first-team offense remained in the game for Utica.  There were some odd calls being made coaching-wise on that sideline all night that still confound me, including a re-kick after an out-of-bounds kickoff that exited the boundary at the 2 (that automatically would have gone to the 40 -- and the rekick led to a lost fumble to Union).  Accepting a 5-yard penalty on an incomplete 1st and 10 pass when the opponent is in obvious 4-down territory (1st and 15 instead of 2nd and 10 around the Utica 35) was yet another, "Huh?" moment.

Anyway, there was no reason for the first-team offense to be in the game past the first drive of the 4th quarter, with Utica up by 25.  They have an excellent team (it might have been good to give some experience to the second teamers while they had a chance to do so), and Union never has embarrassed Utica like other teams had to warrant some sort of "message."  Maybe the mouthing off before the Union/SJF playoff game in 2006 somehow made Blaise a Union-hater -- but it doesn't warrant risking your top players to injury unnecessarily, especially in Week 2.

Frank, not sure how much time you mean by "past 1st drive of 4th" and there is a differnce between being up by 25 and being up 45-17, but SJF was up by 4 tds against UR a few years  ago AT HOME in the 4th and the game literally came down to the UR QB simply under-handing a toss into a wide open receiver's arms in the endzone for a game tying 2pt conversion with seconds left and he somehow underthrew it and it bounced and SJF luckily survived, so who's to say when a lead is safe at this level....

I think I focused on the first-team offense in my post more than the defense.  However, there's a time to pull players on both sides of the ball.  Also, the UR/SJF game (Courage Bowl rivalry game) occurred before the timing rules changed.  It's not as likely now for even that anomaly.

Fisher was up by three possessions in that game, not four. That's a major difference, more so than the clock rules (although that helps too.

Regardless, I'd also say that "Worst-Case scenario" anecdotes rarely make for good general policy. I understand the concept that coaches live by a different set of rules, and that one "worst-case" scenario can be their undoing. But I think coaches still wait too long to ease up

[SJFF82]

To dlip, Utica's offensive output could have been doubled if they didn't take their foot off the gas.

I'd disagree with this part.  When up by 45-17 late in the 4th, all first-team offense remained in the game for Utica.  There were some odd calls being made coaching-wise on that sideline all night that still confound me, including a re-kick after an out-of-bounds kickoff that exited the boundary at the 2 (that automatically would have gone to the 40 -- and the rekick led to a lost fumble to Union).  Accepting a 5-yard penalty on an incomplete 1st and 10 pass when the opponent is in obvious 4-down territory (1st and 15 instead of 2nd and 10 around the Utica 35) was yet another, "Huh?" moment.

Anyway, there was no reason for the first-team offense to be in the game past the first drive of the 4th quarter, with Utica up by 25.  They have an excellent team (it might have been good to give some experience to the second teamers while they had a chance to do so), and Union never has embarrassed Utica like other teams had to warrant some sort of "message."  Maybe the mouthing off before the Union/SJF playoff game in 2006 somehow made Blaise a Union-hater -- but it doesn't warrant risking your top players to injury unnecessarily, especially in Week 2.

Frank, not sure how much time you mean by "past 1st drive of 4th" and there is a differnce between being up by 25 and being up 45-17, but SJF was up by 4 tds against UR a few years  ago AT HOME in the 4th and the game literally came down to the UR QB simply under-handing a toss into a wide open receiver's arms in the endzone for a game tying 2pt conversion with seconds left and he somehow underthrew it and it bounced and SJF luckily survived, so who's to say when a lead is safe at this level....

I think I focused on the first-team offense in my post more than the defense.  However, there's a time to pull players on both sides of the ball.  Also, the UR/SJF game (Courage Bowl rivalry game) occurred before the timing rules changed.  It's not as likely now for even that anomaly.

Fisher was up by three possessions in that game, not four. That's a major difference, more so than the clock rules (although that helps too.

Regardless, I'd also say that "Worst-Case scenario" anecdotes rarely make for good general policy. I understand the concept that coaches live by a different set of rules, and that one "worst-case" scenario can be their undoing. But I think coaches still wait too long to ease up

yes, you are correct, they were up 22 with 10:33 to go and by :48 to go it was all but tied, save the errant pass to the wide open receiver.  UR scored 20 unanswered in less than 10 minutes?  So could they, would they have scored 28 unanswered in another 3 minutes?  Certainly looks like it?  If it can happen, you must coach against it, lest it will happen to you.  This isnt the playground or the Pinewood Derby.  There is a time to call off the dogs and rest the starters, its called Sunday....

[Bombers798891]

To dlip, Utica's offensive output could have been doubled if they didn't take their foot off the gas.

I'd disagree with this part.  When up by 45-17 late in the 4th, all first-team offense remained in the game for Utica.  There were some odd calls being made coaching-wise on that sideline all night that still confound me, including a re-kick after an out-of-bounds kickoff that exited the boundary at the 2 (that automatically would have gone to the 40 -- and the rekick led to a lost fumble to Union).  Accepting a 5-yard penalty on an incomplete 1st and 10 pass when the opponent is in obvious 4-down territory (1st and 15 instead of 2nd and 10 around the Utica 35) was yet another, "Huh?" moment.

Anyway, there was no reason for the first-team offense to be in the game past the first drive of the 4th quarter, with Utica up by 25.  They have an excellent team (it might have been good to give some experience to the second teamers while they had a chance to do so), and Union never has embarrassed Utica like other teams had to warrant some sort of "message."  Maybe the mouthing off before the Union/SJF playoff game in 2006 somehow made Blaise a Union-hater -- but it doesn't warrant risking your top players to injury unnecessarily, especially in Week 2.

Frank, not sure how much time you mean by "past 1st drive of 4th" and there is a differnce between being up by 25 and being up 45-17, but SJF was up by 4 tds against UR a few years  ago AT HOME in the 4th and the game literally came down to the UR QB simply under-handing a toss into a wide open receiver's arms in the endzone for a game tying 2pt conversion with seconds left and he somehow underthrew it and it bounced and SJF luckily survived, so who's to say when a lead is safe at this level....

I think I focused on the first-team offense in my post more than the defense.  However, there's a time to pull players on both sides of the ball.  Also, the UR/SJF game (Courage Bowl rivalry game) occurred before the timing rules changed.  It's not as likely now for even that anomaly.

Fisher was up by three possessions in that game, not four. That's a major difference, more so than the clock rules (although that helps too.

Regardless, I'd also say that "Worst-Case scenario" anecdotes rarely make for good general policy. I understand the concept that coaches live by a different set of rules, and that one "worst-case" scenario can be their undoing. But I think coaches still wait too long to ease up

yes, you are correct, they were up 22 with 10:33 to go and by :48 to go it was all but tied, save the errant pass to the wide open receiver.  UR scored 20 unanswered in less than 10 minutes?  So could they, would they have scored 28 unanswered in another 3 minutes?  Certainly looks like it?  If it can happen, you must coach against it, lest it will happen to you.  This isnt the playground or the Pinewood Derby.  There is a time to call off the dogs and rest the starters, its called Sunday....

Simply because this isn't the pinewood derby or the playground is no reason not to show your opponents' respect. I remember the first time Ithaca played Utica. It was 35-0 in the first quarter, and only then because IC had a punt return TD called back. Ithaca could have won that game by 125 points had they felt like it, and that's not hyperbole. According to the recap of the game by the Ithacan, Ithaca emptied its entire bench. Starting quarterback Brian Young threw, according to the Syracuse paper, five passes the entire game. (I thought it was eight, but I'll trust the paper to my memory)

Had Ithaca subscribed to your "Let up on Sunday" theory, that game would have been a mockery. How many games would Mount win by 100 points if it didn't empty its bench and call off the dogs? There's a reason you see them winning games 52-0, 62-0, 48-3 and going scoreless in the 4th quarter. 

[drt]

I say uncharted water for Utica because of the ease with which they handled Union on the road.
Maybe it was a fluke.  I guess we'll get a good measure of them this weekend.
I think part of the reason they do well early then get handled is their past predictability on offense.
When player's mothers are pleading from the stands during the game to run different plays, and when opposing LB's are crowding the line when Utica is in a spread with a single setback and shouting "Run," that's when I scratch my head.

[pumkinattack]

Not trying to play the Rodney Dangerfield no respect card, but you vastly understate the case when stating things like this weekend will be a test or a good measure (not one poster, I've seen a few posts with similar comments completely aware that it's likely unintentional - I'm just very excited for this Hobart team like no other since I've been involved with the program).  This Hobart defense is the best I've ever seen since playing for them in the late 90's into 2000's and followed closely since.  I played with Dave Russell, Tim Booth, Eric Newsome and Rob Gould and saw the Aruck, Hager, Sanders combo many times in person and can tell you that this front eight is the best Coach Cragg has ever had and I believe this defense has the team speed to stop the best offenses in the entire country.   

Now, Hobart's offense has played horribly to date despite having a number of tremendous playmakers (a FR 3rd or 4th string RB is the only guy to have a play north of 30+ yards notwithstanding having guys like Webb, Woodard, Dougherty, etc.).  They've also been really sloppy w/penalties (the stat sheet will show a number of personal fouls, but really it was the retailation guy gets called situation as Geneva was illegally chop blocking like they were trained to do so and the Statesmen didn't turn the other cheek).  That's where you'll find the weakness if Cragg doesn't get them prepared for Saturday. 

My point is simply that while the LL has been down since 2008 (IMO the last solid year for the league overall), this Hobart team is worthy of where they're ranked so far and if Utica does win it'll be far more than a good test.  It'll be a precursor to a Utica team that should have a very, very good shot at winning the E8 this year.  I'm really excited for this Hobart team this season, but nervous as hell mainly because they've won their league and/or made the playoffs eight (8) times since the 2000 season yet always lost a game, sometimes in befuddling ways or to teams they shouldn't have lost to (often the 3rd to 5th best team on their schedule including 2000, 2002, 2004 & 2008, can live with the losses in 04, 05 & 07).

Utica looks hot to start the year.  They'll have a ton of momentum going into a 7pm game under the lights.  I wish them good luck all year, but not too much this weekend. 

[drt]

All respect to Hobart and their national ranking.  It is well-deserved.
I don't think anyone on here expects a Utica win.  If they compete respectably it
will be a good gauge of where the program is.  And if they do compete, they will be in
uncharted waters.

[Frank Rossi]

All respect to Hobart and their national ranking.  It is well-deserved.
I don't think anyone on here expects a Utica win.  If they compete respectably it
will be a good gauge of where the program is.  And if they do compete, they will be in
uncharted waters.

I predicted Utica to win on "In the HuddLLe" this week.

[dlippiel]

dlip is not just saying this because they hammered Union but Utica looked really good last week, really good. Dlip hesitantly picks Hobart here but he would not be shocked if Utica gets a W. Honestly to dlip, if Bart wins this game handily it will tell dlip just how good Bart is. Dlip is high on Bart, they are the LL's only top notch team. Lile he said, Utica looked really good even against a very poor showing by the Union D.