FB: Empire 8

[boobyhasgameyo]

Also the new top 25 poll is out.  Fisher drops two spots to #11 while Salisbury remains at 7.  Alfred is in the receiving votes section but I would have thought they would get more since they had 4 votes last week and beat a previously undefeated Ithaca team.  Instead they dropped to two votes.  It should be a good game this weekend. 

[sjfcards]

I have to jump in on the Fisher offense discussion. I was in Florida for a wedding, and only got to watch the game on the internet, so I was not at the game, but my feeling on the offense is that it was much better after Kramer went out of the game. I thought Fenti's arm added a dimension that had Salisbury off balance and on their heels a bit. I can't say Fenti didn't show some cracks in the foundation the fourth quarter, because he did, but moving forward for this team, I think he is the best option.

My biggest reason for saying that is that when things started to go badly for him yesterday he didn't have the best player on the team (Kramer) to get the ball to. If Fenti looked like that against Salisbury, and when Fisher needed to run the clock out and get a few first downs, he could have just turned around and handed the ball off to Kramer (as well as Miller and the rest).

With Kramer under center the passing game is just not as effective. With Fenti Fisher could add the pass as a legitimate threat, and still get the ball in Kramer's hands when needed. Just my two cents.

[Frank Rossi]

We had an interesting discussion concerning the SJF polling position, especially relative to Hobart, on last night's "In the HuddLLe."  Dylan Hoffman, junior center and co-captain of Rochester weighed in a bit on SJF 2011 vs. SJF 2012 later in the show.  Take a listen at http://inthehuddlle.com (select the 10/7/12 show link).

[boobyhasgameyo]

Without having listened to the discussion last night I have seen Hobart supporters gripe considerably about Fisher in relation to polling position.  I can understand using the argument about how Fisher performed in their first 3 games of the season with them being close.  It wasn't pretty until the Hartwick game but it's not as if they lost any of them.  I absolutely do not see last year's result between Fisher and Hobart as any kind of valid argument.  As I've stated before Fisher evolved after that point and to hold one bad game early on in a season against them a year later is absurd.  If we are looking back, then why not go back one year before that when Fisher soundly defeated Hobart on their field?  I think it's obvious that looking back two years ago is a dumb thing to do when discussing current versions of a team.  It's unclear to me why Hobart still references a game that occurred over a year ago as if they would face the same product today. 

[pumkinattack]

When I referenced last year's game earlier this season it was to highlight what Hobart had done last year, coming into this season, returning a ton of personnel across both sides of the ball including (IMO) two all american defensive players.  I felt as though Fisher was way overranked and there was a ton of apologists after the TMC game (they're good, but actually they're not, Geneva College beat them), W&J (they're good - not really), UofR (rivalry game, that hasn't stopped Fisher from bashing them in other years and UofR promptly got beat 44-7 by Springfield).  Even the Hartwick win is about the same as beating WPI or SLU - nothing of note w any score.  Meanwhile, for Hobart, it's like "your league sucks" (kind of true the last 2-3 years) and you haven't proven anything, but I think the Fisher game and a really shorthanded road loss to Wesley should prove something given the returning personnel and yet they beat Utica on the road by 20 and Springfield by 21 (and hold them to less than half their rushing avg) and it's "Hobart hasn't done anything, go beat someone", which I felt was unfair given the way the seeding broke last year (who else beat a Wesley, St Thomas, MUC or UWW - that's a pretty high bar that no one else appears to be held to). 

I did see the other Hobart poster complain yesterday and actually don't agree.  Losing to Salisbury in a tough one was probably the best thing Fisher's accomplished this year.  I still don't see a top ten team, but a top ten team should beat a 15-25 team most of the time.  Both Fisher and Hobart should get that chance in the playoffs if they do what they need to do the rest of the way.  Fisher, with a conference loss and a tougher slate ahead (IMO, RPI and Union are tough and rivalry type games, but I thin AU, IC and a enigmatic Buff St is a tougher stretch by a little). 

At this point I don't care about Hobart vs Fisher unless they find themselves on the field.  Come playoff time I root for all the Eastern teams (except the NJAC schools, I just don't like them for some odd reason) except against Bart. 

Anyways, that's why I referenced last years game - which was three weeks ago based as much on last year plus the first couple of games.  Even when Brockport fans are telling Hobart to go beat someone it would get on your nerves too.  Can't speak for anyone else, but it's more about that (and perhaps a lack of recognition that playing JHU from an average conference and DelVal, who was probably a little overrated last year based on what we're seeing this year with much of the same personnel is not the same as playing Wesley). 

[dlippiel]

At this point in the year taking into account as much as dlip can he ranks Bart ahead of SJF in his ERFP ballot. It's close but with Hobarts tough D and Fisher's tough D what stands a head above to dlip  is Hobart's offense. Dlip feels right now Bart beats SjF in a head to head match-up. However there is plenty of season left and both teams have yet to really play to their full potential. Regardless, unless they play each other or Union, dlip will be rooting for either of them come playoff time.

[pg04]

The fact that I'm a Brockport fan has no bearing on my opinion about Hobart. I have said nothing about where they "should be" in terms of any other team, and certainly has nothing to do with Hobart and Fisher.

Just because I root for another team doesn't lessen my opinion in comparison to anyone else.

[boobyhasgameyo]

So you feel Hobart isn't being justly credited for beating a 3-2 Utica squad and a 3-3 Springfield team?  As if to imply they are formidable opponents that you are beating.  Yet you are dismissing Fisher's wins over Thomas More and W&J - essentially calling them bad teams, even though their overall win/loss records are identical?  The Thomas More game was not some game we were lucky to win.  Thomas More was lucky to be in that game.  Our defense dominated them.  As a matter of fact I don't think they had a first down in the second half...maybe one.  W&J we were extremely fortunate to leave with the win, but we outplayed them as much in the 2nd half as they did to us in the ugliest first half of football that I have seen in a while.  Oh and you should look at Salisbury's rushing averages for the season heading into the game and see what Fisher held them to if you want to go down that road. 


I agree with you that playing Wesley was a bad draw in the first round but I enjoy how you even managed to downplay beating two teams with a combined record of 21-0 before playing Fisher.  It wasn't Curry and Norwich we beat.  At the end of the day I am not saying Fisher hasn't had a rough start.  They've been shaky because our offense is not killing it this year.  But I feel like Hobart posters don't want to say it out loud but they are all thinking they would dominate Fisher if the teams were to play.  I think they'd be in for a surprise.  That's all. 

[pumkinattack]

But when you're blowing Fisher this season based in the body of work to date but state wake me up when Hobart beats someone you're opinion is flawed to be kind, thoughtless or worse if being less kind.  It can't be its who you beat on the one hand and then but they lost a tight one on the other. 

Like I said earlier, I diverge from Res Ipsa on his post a day or so about the rankings at this point in the season (and really I don't know if there's a difference between #9 & #15 anyway), but your comment caught my eye.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Just so we're clear - I am not in the boat saying wake me up when Hobart beats someone.  I think what they've done has been impressive.  I can't recall a lot of other Fisher posters saying it either (though maybe they did, I just can't recall it).  But it sure seems like Hobart supporters think Fisher is some 2nd rate team who would be blown out if they played. 

[pumkinattack]

Booby, prior post to PG.

To your question, I think the resumes are comparable and was making my point in week two or three when Hobart was like 22nd and Fisher was 8th or whatever.  Same argument I made last season at the end.  Even if Fisher was better at the end of the year, they finished in yhe top ten and Hobart was unranked.  The gap has closed and I don't really care and haven't since league play started.  And I know the CC well.  Bart beat Dickinson many years when they were the CC champ and it didnt mean much nationally other than a nice win.  DelVal I think was and is overrated, not a bad team but even last year I don't think they we're a top 20 team.  What I was saying, and again it was weeks ago before league play, is consistent with what I said at the end of last year.  Rank the two teams where you want, but it ain't the gap that the poll had them last year or yo start the season this year.  I also just stated that I haven't made this point in weeks and think both teams may be overrated based.on their body of work to date.  It's just too much of a penalty to Hobart to lise one game when every time they do play a good team out of conference they acquit themselves as well as anyone in the east. 

That's all Im, saying.  I think Sals, Fisher and Bart are the best three teams in the East this year

[pg04]

But when you're blowing Fisher this season based in the body of work to date but state wake me up when Hobart beats someone you're opinion is flawed to be kind, thoughtless or worse if being less kind.  It can't be its who you beat on the one hand and then but they lost a tight one on the other. 

Like I said earlier, I diverge from Res Ipsa on his post a day or so about the rankings at this point in the season (and really I don't know if there's a difference between #9 & #15 anyway), but your comment caught my eye.

My opinion, if it was not clear, was that Hobart fans shouldn't complain about being "underrated" until they have something that brings attention to them. I may have said it crudely, but the original poster's thoughts were so over the top. They aren't going to jump 5 positions over Fisher when there are other teams in the nation ahead of them in line to do so.

The main thesis of the original post by res whatever his name is was that because Fisher was blown out LAST year, somehow they should be rated ahead this year. And then he uses the win over Springfield as something impressive.

I agree that Fisher hasn't been impressive, but given the parameters of the way the poll works, Fisher isn't going to drop for losing to a higher rated team. All in all, there is NO relationship between Fisher's current position and Hobart's position. It's just that Hobart started lower and will only move up if teams above them lose to inferior opponents, IMO.

[pumkinattack]

Typing on a phone here obviously, but to add:

I think Hobart deserved the win vs Fisher last year, but the end of the season it was completely dismissed and at least one fisher poster flat out stated that the only reason Hobart won was because they has three weeks to prepare.  It was as if the narrative of the season was completely rewritten and most everyone's accepted it as if Hobart got lucky and didn't deserve to be in the discussion as one od the top teams in the east. 

[pg04]

Might I add that I hope Hobart goes undefeated and goes on a run deep into the playoffs. It would help the east AND provide Hobart with the "status" that FIsher attains in being highly ranked to begin the season.

[dlippiel]

Dlip feels it is important to keep in mind what Hobart did against Wesley last year with injuries. Obviously this is a different year but still, it holds ****in water period. Dlip would love to see the Cardinals offense go ape**** for the rest of the season. If they get their O together and find some flow and consistency they will be down right nasty.