FB: Empire 8

[AUPepBand]

still think that alfred should be in if fisher is in.

Agree...

When you get to the bottom 5 of the top 25 it's always fluid but AU proved they were the better club last week by physically dominating the Cardinals on both sides of the ball...

When #9 Fisher suffered its first loss, to #7 Salisbury by 11, they dropped from #9 to #11 and from 393 points to 354 points. Not a huge drop.
When Fisher lost to Alfred by 13, the Cardinals dropped from #11 to #24 and from 354 points to 66 points. Significant.
Meanwhile, Alfred, with the win over Fisher, received 105 points and became #21.
But Alfred's 3-point loss at #7 Salisbury dropped them from 105 to 31 points.
Fisher is rewarded for a 4 point win over Ithaca (which AU handled 31-7) by maintaining the #24 spot with 64 points.

But then Pep has stated many times his disdain for and disinterest in the polls. Because any given Saterday...

On Saxon Warriors!

[sjfcards]

still think that alfred should be in if fisher is in.

Agree...

When you get to the bottom 5 of the top 25 it's always fluid but AU proved they were the better club last week by physically dominating the Cardinals on both sides of the ball...

There is really nothing to support Fisher being higher than AU. Like opponents and.head to bead are pretty one sided, and Fishers out of conference doesn't look.as strong as it did several weeks ago.

[lewdogg11]

still think that alfred should be in if fisher is in.

Agree...

When you get to the bottom 5 of the top 25 it's always fluid but AU proved they were the better club last week by physically dominating the Cardinals on both sides of the ball...

There is really nothing to support Fisher being higher than AU. Like opponents and.head to bead are pretty one sided, and Fishers out of conference doesn't look.as strong as it did several weeks ago.

This is pretty easy to figure out.  Some voters are lazy and didn't do their homework.  Fisher shouldn't be above Alfred.  Case closed.    If both teams win out, Alfred deserves an at-large bid before Fisher does, so there's no discussion here.

[AlfredSaxon8]

still think that alfred should be in if fisher is in.

Agree...

When you get to the bottom 5 of the top 25 it's always fluid but AU proved they were the better club last week by physically dominating the Cardinals on both sides of the ball...

There is really nothing to support Fisher being higher than AU. Like opponents and.head to bead are pretty one sided, and Fishers out of conference doesn't look.as strong as it did several weeks ago.
[/quote

This is pretty easy to figure out.  Some voters are lazy and didn't do their homework.  Fisher shouldn't be above Alfred.  Case closed.    If both teams win out, Alfred deserves an at-large bid before Fisher does, so there's no discussion here.

I dont think Alfred will get in with 2 losses. They deserve to, but Im trying to be realistic. If Fisher is still somehow ahead of them in the polls, they will clearly get voted in before AU.

Is it right? Absolutely NOT. But not suprising. Fisher is still getting major props for going deeper in the playoffs than any other E8 teams (minus those way old bombers of course). But thats the story as far as Im concerned. AU isnt seen as much on the big stage as Fisher. Lew is right to say people arent doing their honework but Fisher has left a positive impression to many outside the E8.

And again, not a shot at AU or anyone else. But ever since Fisher went the distance with MUC, a lot of people recognize their name.

[SUADC]

the other interesting thing to me was how the points moved around with the uww loss.  wesley moved up a spot but did not gain any points.  several other teams also had totals that dropped.  some pollsters must have readjusted the polls.  i was not surprized that oshkosh jumped to 6, would not have griped had they jumped wesley.  i think there is a gap between the top 6 and the others at this point.  i am not sure if salisbury should be 7th as i think several of the other teams behind them may be better.  the next couple of weeks will be interesting to see if there is any other movement if all the top teams keep winning.

I honestly think this year, we will not know what team is what, until playoff time. However, if you look at the Top 8 teams (D3 poll), you have 3 teams (Wesley, Salisbury, Cal Lutheran) each losing to UMHB (#2), Wesley (#5), and Linfield (#3) respectively. Yes, there may be teams behind Salisbury that can beat them, but not that many in my opinion, we lost to Wesley by 10, and 7 of those points was on the last drive to seal the deal. I think Salisbury potential has yet to be reached this year and maybe they will not be, but with the tough schedule in the E8 this year and Salisbury still undefeated in conference play, I think that accounts for a lot, E8 is tough. As far as a gap, I don't think that gap is there this year, MUC has yet to be challenge this year, but continues to dominate in every game, UMHB got there first real test this past weekend since playing #5 Wesley early in the year, Linfield has face three solid opponents, including beating #8 Cal Lutheran in a close match (3 point win), UST started off shaky against Eau Claire, but has dominated as of late, including dominating Bethel, a game that everyone thought was going to be close quality win, then Oshkosh just beat the defending national champions at UWW on their homecoming, but I expected them to win, based on how UWW was playing this year, no surprise to me. Then there is Wesley, Salisbury, and Cal Lutheran, each losing in close contest against the others aformentioned. Just speaking of the Top 8, I believe each team has a decent chance of winning and it will come down to matchups come playoff time.

Now with the movement in the remainder of the Top 25, I think Alfred should still be ranked if SJF is ranked, my opinion of course, I think someone already mentioned it, some pollster didn't do their homework. There are so many teams deserving of Top 25 consideration based on record alone, but I think quality of wins come into play and history.

[fisheralum91]

Look,
I know that im going to get beat up here, but Fisher and AU are a pick em at this point.
Head to head- minus 2 mental blunders, you are staring at a 7-6 game and it could go either way, and yes AU capitalized.
Both of these teams pushed Salisbury to the brink, and both have a loss that sticks out.
AU to RPI and Fisher to AU.
Should AU get the nod?  Probably, but if these teams both win out there are going to be plenty of conversations!
That I look forward to.  That said, leave it to Fisher to go to Utica the last game of the season and get beat....That I could see happen too.

[AlfredSaxon8]

Sounds like a very bizarre concept because traditionally, the only thing that matters is the Top 25, but they need to rank to the Top 30 or 35 teams. Dont 32 make it to the playoffs? Why leave those 7 spots out? There's like 300+ teams in D3 which means only 8% or less of the teams are ranked. When you are talking D1, you are averaging a percentage figure close to what you are ranking. Theres around 120 teams, rank the Top 25, it just short of 25%. Its not the same in D3. Obviously you cant rank 75 teams, but you get my point.

[AUKaz00]

Sounds like a very bizarre concept because traditionally, the only thing that matters is the Top 25, but they need to rank to the Top 30 or 35 teams. Dont 32 make it to the playoffs? Why leave those 7 spots out? There's like 300+ teams in D3 which means only 8% or less of the teams are ranked. When you are talking D1, you are averaging a percentage figure close to what you are ranking. Theres around 120 teams, rank the Top 25, it just short of 25%. Its not the same in D3. Obviously you cant rank 75 teams, but you get my point.

32 teams do make the tourney, but the NCAA doesn't give a toss about the rankings (well, except for their Regional Rankings.  Maybe...).  Once all the AQ are handed out, there are only 8 at-large selections left with one of those dedicated to independents.  So, Top 25 honors are nice, but that only gives an idea of team strength rather than a barometer of who gets to dance.

[AlfredSaxon8]

Sounds like a very bizarre concept because traditionally, the only thing that matters is the Top 25, but they need to rank to the Top 30 or 35 teams. Dont 32 make it to the playoffs? Why leave those 7 spots out? There's like 300+ teams in D3 which means only 8% or less of the teams are ranked. When you are talking D1, you are averaging a percentage figure close to what you are ranking. Theres around 120 teams, rank the Top 25, it just short of 25%. Its not the same in D3. Obviously you cant rank 75 teams, but you get my point.

32 teams do make the tourney, but the NCAA doesn't give a toss about the rankings (well, except for their Regional Rankings.  Maybe...).  Once all the AQ are handed out, there are only 8 at-large selections left with one of those dedicated to independents.  So, Top 25 honors are nice, but that only gives an idea of team strength rather than a barometer of who gets to dance.

That definitely makes sense. I guess what bugs me, is there are just so many teams. All throughout the season, all someone essentially has to go on is the Top 25. I look at the Top 25 and thats all I have to go on. So I guess Im just saying its tough to get a good gauge outside the Top 25 because there are plenty of teams with solid records relatively unknown outside their conference.

[AUPepBand]

Sounds like a very bizarre concept because traditionally, the only thing that matters is the Top 25, but they need to rank to the Top 30 or 35 teams. Dont 32 make it to the playoffs? Why leave those 7 spots out? There's like 300+ teams in D3 which means only 8% or less of the teams are ranked. When you are talking D1, you are averaging a percentage figure close to what you are ranking. Theres around 120 teams, rank the Top 25, it just short of 25%. Its not the same in D3. Obviously you cant rank 75 teams, but you get my point.

32 teams do make the tourney, but the NCAA doesn't give a toss about the rankings (well, except for their Regional Rankings.  Maybe...).  Once all the AQ are handed out, there are only 8 at-large selections left with one of those dedicated to independents.  So, Top 25 honors are nice, but that only gives an idea of team strength rather than a barometer of who gets to dance.

That definitely makes sense. I guess what bugs me, is there are just so many teams. All throughout the season, all someone essentially has to go on is the Top 25. I look at the Top 25 and thats all I have to go on. So I guess Im just saying its tough to get a good gauge outside the Top 25 because there are plenty of teams with solid records relatively unknown outside their conference.

What you're forgetting, Saxon8, is that there are a number of weak D3 conferences that, because of the "open" championships, have a champion that represents them in the NCAA Championships. You probably didn't see SUNY-Maritime ranked in the Top 25 back in 2010 in spite of their 10-0 record, but they earned a 3rd seed (whether listed as such or not) and, excepting a technical issue, would have HOSTED Alfred, the #6 seed with an 8-2 record but the Empire 8 automatic qualifier (AQ). And you saw what AU did to the Privateers.

One way to gauge the 32-team field is to look at the conferences listed on this website, check the standings. Each of those conferences (with at least 7 teams) will have an AQ in the NCAA playoffs. Take a look at the leaders in those conferences. Some may not appear in the Top 25 but they'll be in the 32-team field, while there are some who live in the Top 25 who may be staying home (UW-Whitewater?).

All part of the fun in D3.....but seriously, poke around in the corners of this website. There's a wealth of interesting information about this thing we call D3 football!

On Saxon Warriors!

[AUPepBand]

Look,
I know that im going to get beat up here, but Fisher and AU are a pick em at this point.
Head to head- minus 2 mental blunders, you are staring at a 7-6 game and it could go either way, and yes AU capitalized.
Both of these teams pushed Salisbury to the brink, and both have a loss that sticks out.
AU to RPI and Fisher to AU.
Should AU get the nod?  Probably, but if these teams both win out there are going to be plenty of conversations!
That I look forward to.  That said, leave it to Fisher to go to Utica the last game of the season and get beat....That I could see happen too.

91 lookin' for a fight? Pep can only say, "Eech. Ooh. Yeah. Um... I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there."
(And 91's been real flakey lately...he's also been having some problems with his T.P.S. Reports.)

On Saxon Warriors!

[wesleydad]

the other interesting thing to me was how the points moved around with the uww loss.  wesley moved up a spot but did not gain any points.  several other teams also had totals that dropped.  some pollsters must have readjusted the polls.  i was not surprized that oshkosh jumped to 6, would not have griped had they jumped wesley.  i think there is a gap between the top 6 and the others at this point.  i am not sure if salisbury should be 7th as i think several of the other teams behind them may be better.  the next couple of weeks will be interesting to see if there is any other movement if all the top teams keep winning.

I honestly think this year, we will not know what team is what, until playoff time. However, if you look at the Top 8 teams (D3 poll), you have 3 teams (Wesley, Salisbury, Cal Lutheran) each losing to UMHB (#2), Wesley (#5), and Linfield (#3) respectively. Yes, there may be teams behind Salisbury that can beat them, but not that many in my opinion, we lost to Wesley by 10, and 7 of those points was on the last drive to seal the deal. I think Salisbury potential has yet to be reached this year and maybe they will not be, but with the tough schedule in the E8 this year and Salisbury still undefeated in conference play, I think that accounts for a lot, E8 is tough. As far as a gap, I don't think that gap is there this year, MUC has yet to be challenge this year, but continues to dominate in every game, UMHB got there first real test this past weekend since playing #5 Wesley early in the year, Linfield has face three solid opponents, including beating #8 Cal Lutheran in a close match (3 point win), UST started off shaky against Eau Claire, but has dominated as of late, including dominating Bethel, a game that everyone thought was going to be close quality win, then Oshkosh just beat the defending national champions at UWW on their homecoming, but I expected them to win, based on how UWW was playing this year, no surprise to me. Then there is Wesley, Salisbury, and Cal Lutheran, each losing in close contest against the others aformentioned. Just speaking of the Top 8, I believe each team has a decent chance of winning and it will come down to matchups come playoff time.

Now with the movement in the remainder of the Top 25, I think Alfred should still be ranked if SJF is ranked, my opinion of course, I think someone already mentioned it, some pollster didn't do their homework. There are so many teams deserving of Top 25 consideration based on record alone, but I think quality of wins come into play and history.

SUADC, i will stick to my belief that i dont think salisbury is the 7th best/ranked team in the nation based on what i saw against alfred on saturday.  alfred is a good team and has some nice players, especially on defense, but they do not pack much of a punch on o from what i saw.  in the end the game was close due to salisbury mistakes that alfred capitalized on.  there seems to be something missing from the gulls o that i cant quite put my finger on.  the injury to the RB this week hurt them some, hopefully he is not out long.  I am just not sure if the gulls can score enought to beat the top teams in the playoffs.  wesley held them to 7 but UMHB scored 32 on wesley, big difference.  i agree the E8 is a tough conference, but i think that the seperation in the voting between the gulls, fisher, and alfred is greater than what i saw on the field saturday.  i know it is just polling, but as was said by i believe lewdogg is is apparent that some voters do not do much leg work to cast votes.  i know you watch plenty of games as i do and we differ on this point.  nice thing is is that it will play out in the upcoming weeks.  should the gulls prove me wrong i will be the first to admit it.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Look,
I know that im going to get beat up here, but Fisher and AU are a pick em at this point.
Head to head- minus 2 mental blunders, you are staring at a 7-6 game and it could go either way, and yes AU capitalized.
Both of these teams pushed Salisbury to the brink, and both have a loss that sticks out.
AU to RPI and Fisher to AU.
Should AU get the nod?  Probably, but if these teams both win out there are going to be plenty of conversations!
That I look forward to.  That said, leave it to Fisher to go to Utica the last game of the season and get beat....That I could see happen too.

91 lookin' for a fight? Pep can only say, "Eech. Ooh. Yeah. Um... I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there."
(And 91's been real flakey lately...he's also been having some problems with his T.P.S. Reports.)

On Saxon Warriors!

I agree with the basic premise of what FA91 is saying.  Alfred has not proven they are markedly better than Fisher.  If they played 10 times who knows how many each team would win but it's my belief it wouldn't be lopsided in either team's favor.  Heck even the Salisbury game - while the final score was closer the impression we've all gotten was that Salisbury played incredibly sloppy and Alfred capitalized.  Well the reverse happened to Fisher when they were leading Salisbury with a few minutes to go - they became incredibly sloppy and Salisbury capitalized. 

Allllll of that said...no Fisher definitely does not belong ahead of Alfred right now in the poll.  I don't think you'd find many of us that would argue otherwise.  They won the head-to-head in a very recent matchup so they unquestionably deserve the nod. 

Doesn't it just feel like all of this ultimately doesn't matter anyway?  Mount Union looks like they are on a freaking mission.  Somebody said something offensive about Mount Union's mother.   

[fisheralum91]

Boobs,
You hit the nail on the head,
Thank you.
I was right the karma too a hit, but im cool with the fact that my opinion wasnt alone.
UMU looks as scary as ever this year.
Who knows, maybe this is the year St. Thomas gets of the stick

[SUADC]

the other interesting thing to me was how the points moved around with the uww loss.  wesley moved up a spot but did not gain any points.  several other teams also had totals that dropped.  some pollsters must have readjusted the polls.  i was not surprized that oshkosh jumped to 6, would not have griped had they jumped wesley.  i think there is a gap between the top 6 and the others at this point.  i am not sure if salisbury should be 7th as i think several of the other teams behind them may be better.  the next couple of weeks will be interesting to see if there is any other movement if all the top teams keep winning.

I honestly think this year, we will not know what team is what, until playoff time. However, if you look at the Top 8 teams (D3 poll), you have 3 teams (Wesley, Salisbury, Cal Lutheran) each losing to UMHB (#2), Wesley (#5), and Linfield (#3) respectively. Yes, there may be teams behind Salisbury that can beat them, but not that many in my opinion, we lost to Wesley by 10, and 7 of those points was on the last drive to seal the deal. I think Salisbury potential has yet to be reached this year and maybe they will not be, but with the tough schedule in the E8 this year and Salisbury still undefeated in conference play, I think that accounts for a lot, E8 is tough. As far as a gap, I don't think that gap is there this year, MUC has yet to be challenge this year, but continues to dominate in every game, UMHB got there first real test this past weekend since playing #5 Wesley early in the year, Linfield has face three solid opponents, including beating #8 Cal Lutheran in a close match (3 point win), UST started off shaky against Eau Claire, but has dominated as of late, including dominating Bethel, a game that everyone thought was going to be close quality win, then Oshkosh just beat the defending national champions at UWW on their homecoming, but I expected them to win, based on how UWW was playing this year, no surprise to me. Then there is Wesley, Salisbury, and Cal Lutheran, each losing in close contest against the others aformentioned. Just speaking of the Top 8, I believe each team has a decent chance of winning and it will come down to matchups come playoff time.

Now with the movement in the remainder of the Top 25, I think Alfred should still be ranked if SJF is ranked, my opinion of course, I think someone already mentioned it, some pollster didn't do their homework. There are so many teams deserving of Top 25 consideration based on record alone, but I think quality of wins come into play and history.

SUADC, i will stick to my belief that i dont think salisbury is the 7th best/ranked team in the nation based on what i saw against alfred on saturday.  alfred is a good team and has some nice players, especially on defense, but they do not pack much of a punch on o from what i saw.  in the end the game was close due to salisbury mistakes that alfred capitalized on.  there seems to be something missing from the gulls o that i cant quite put my finger on.  the injury to the RB this week hurt them some, hopefully he is not out long.  I am just not sure if the gulls can score enought to beat the top teams in the playoffs.  wesley held them to 7 but UMHB scored 32 on wesley, big difference.  i agree the E8 is a tough conference, but i think that the seperation in the voting between the gulls, fisher, and alfred is greater than what i saw on the field saturday.  i know it is just polling, but as was said by i believe lewdogg is is apparent that some voters do not do much leg work to cast votes.  i know you watch plenty of games as i do and we differ on this point.  nice thing is is that it will play out in the upcoming weeks.  should the gulls prove me wrong i will be the first to admit it.

I agree that Salisbury offense has not been as explosive as of recent years and too, I can not pin point where their lacking. With that I don't think they have reached their potential yet, the playmakers are there, maybe it is that we have became the sheep instead of the wolf and not showing that hunger that we deserve to be where we are now. Now, regarding only scoring 7 against Wesley and UMHB scoring 32, we have only scored at more than 14 twice against you guys since 2005, 21 in 2008 and 19 in 2005 (Blowout), its the familiarity that you guys have with us and you can't forget you guys scored 25 on UMHB and only 17 (7 on the last drive), so I think our defense is there. Also, they do say offense wins games, but defense wins championships. Now regarding Wesley, they have had their close games this year as well, from watching some of those games, you can say the same thing about being ranked high, but you guys prevailed and that's what matters as of now. In my opinion, it appears that Wesley defense is not as fearsome as of years past, but the talent is there as always. I am still a believer that no one other than UMHB has proven to me to be a top dog this year... +K for the real talk.